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Old 03-03-2009, 10:45 AM   #1
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Sogay C2M cuts referral commissions to 2%

I've been very happy with C2M since joined, hence the reason I was promoting them on my blog. I only have a couple referrals, but these guys are actually doing well, and WERE earning me some nice commissions until...today!

I jux found out the C2M has cut commission rates from 5% to 2% wtf! Now they are using the extra 3% to fuel their rewards programs to incentivize more sales/growth from publishers. I totally understand their intentions and why they are doing this, but I don't think the decision was made very judiciously. They should've left old referrals at 5% and brought on new referrals at 2%. After all, they wouldn't have these referrals had it not been for contests and such that are held on our blogs.

Jux my 2 cents, very disappointed...
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Old 03-03-2009, 10:48 AM   #2
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Eh, get over it.
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Old 03-03-2009, 10:58 AM   #3
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Referrals are something we dont think much about. While we like them when we get them (not very much) we ALWAYS go at the publisher and tell them they aren't going to get the best deal because they have been referred. At 5% it started to become a large chunk with some. At 2% we can live with it, AND reward the guys pushing the volume.

I knew there would be crushed feelings but it's better than the alternative and that was cutting the referral program altogether.
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Old 03-03-2009, 10:58 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AudienceSnipe View Post
I've been very happy with C2M since joined, hence the reason I was promoting them on my blog. I only have a couple referrals, but these guys are actually doing well, and WERE earning me some nice commissions until...today!

I jux found out the C2M has cut commission rates from 5% to 2% wtf! Now they are using the extra 3% to fuel their rewards programs to incentivize more sales/growth from publishers. I totally understand their intentions and why they are doing this, but I don't think the decision was made very judiciously. They should've left old referrals at 5% and brought on new referrals at 2%. After all, they wouldn't have these referrals had it not been for contests and such that are held on our blogs.

Jux my 2 cents, very disappointed...
Do the math fool. They cut your ref commisions 3% and gave you 10% rewards. The flexibility from dropping the ref commisions is only going to benefit you in the long run.
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Old 03-03-2009, 11:29 AM   #5
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I think I said this as soon as they released the 5% amount, it wont last long!

hence why I didn't push it ha
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Old 03-03-2009, 11:29 AM   #6
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sohan, can u do math? 50k gross sales @ 5% commissions = $2500...or 50k gross sales to get a $500 digital camera/cash...if u take the latter, ur an idiot.
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Old 03-03-2009, 11:31 AM   #7
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If you only make monies by referrals like John Chow, you are an idiot.
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Old 03-03-2009, 11:33 AM   #8
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At least they didn't give the publishers you referred the option to dump you as their "referrer" So they could get a higher payout - Like copeac did to me
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Old 03-03-2009, 11:39 AM   #9
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aww muffin..... suck it up
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Old 03-03-2009, 12:21 PM   #10
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At least they didn't give the publishers you referred the option to dump you as their "referrer" So they could get a higher payout - Like copeac did to me
if the publishers at c.2m aren't braindead they will dump their refererals also, even at 2%. Copea.c is awesome.
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Old 03-03-2009, 12:24 PM   #11
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Quitcher Bitchin.
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Old 03-03-2009, 12:33 PM   #12
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Can someone please explain to me why everyone is so passive about this stuff? Shit, you guys get wacked out at the mere mention of an advertiser scrub but let this stuff slide & in fact take the side of the networks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruck View Post
I knew there would be crushed feelings but it's better than the alternative and that was cutting the referral program altogether.
Actually, an honest man would see the alternative as standing behind your original agreement.

I make $0 off of referrals so this doesn't involve me at all. I'm just curious as to why 2 companies that we all seem to trust (c2m & cop3ac) yank the rug out from under people who brought them business and WF gives the OP "suck it up buttercup" and "get over it".

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we ALWAYS go at the publisher and tell them they aren't going to get the best deal because they have been referred
Ouch!!!

Changing the rules in the middle of the game & giving affiliates the option of breaking the original referral for an extra X% sounds like a bait and switch. It also sounds like theft.

Have the berries confused your mind?
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Old 03-03-2009, 12:37 PM   #13
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C2M have some of the lowest payouts (after asking for an increase)? eg. I said I can bring in 100 google cash offer leads, but you guys gave me $32 whereas A4D, CX, Azoogle all gave me $35 straight off and $34 from Advaliant. I don't run any offer with C2M but thats my experiennce with them.
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Old 03-03-2009, 12:37 PM   #14
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erect +rep
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Old 03-03-2009, 12:52 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by AudienceSnipe View Post
sohan, can u do math? 50k gross sales @ 5% commissions = $2500...or 50k gross sales to get a $500 digital camera/cash...if u take the latter, ur an idiot.
Ok my bad, i thought it was 10%, not 1%. But at the end of the day, they're doing what they have to, to stay competetive with payouts. 2% or something like Hydra's 5% of THEIR profit is much more realistic than 5%.
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Old 03-03-2009, 12:53 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TFLNetwork View Post
If you only make monies by referrals like John Chow, you are an idiot.
i gess everyone on here who has referral links in their sigs and on their blogs are idiots then. did i say i ONLY make $ via referrals? its jux another stream of income, and any smart business man would be smart enuff to take advantage of it, its free money.
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Old 03-03-2009, 12:56 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sohan View Post
Ok my bad, i thought it was 10%, not 1%. But at the end of the day, they're doing what they have to, to stay competetive with payouts. 2% or something like Hydra's 5% of THEIR profit is much more realistic than 5%.

np, at least u admitted ur oversight and didnt continue to defend urself like u was right. i was jux venting, dunno why everyones hatin, except for ERECT and a couple others who understand my point.
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Old 03-03-2009, 01:02 PM   #18
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can you please stop saying jux

EDIT: I do understand your frustrations, and luckily I make $0 from any network on referrals
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Old 03-03-2009, 01:20 PM   #19
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Changing the rules in the middle of the game & giving affiliates the option of breaking the original referral for an extra X% sounds like a bait and switch. It also sounds like theft.
I agree 100%! Lowering referral commissions for new referrals is one thing, but lowering it for already registered referrals cannot be justified.
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Old 03-03-2009, 01:27 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by CygnusX View Post
I agree 100%! Lowering referral commissions for new referrals is one thing, but lowering it for already registered referrals cannot be justified.
Sure it can, for those actually making money I would rather more rewards and free money than pity referral commissions. It's a trade off.

You idiots thinking you're going to bank a ton off referrals are out of your mind because no big affiliate will work under a referral anyways.
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Old 03-03-2009, 01:32 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AudienceSnipe View Post
i gess everyone on here who has referral links in their sigs and on their blogs are idiots then. did i say i ONLY make $ via referrals? its jux another stream of income, and any smart business man would be smart enuff to take advantage of it, its free money.
You are acting like it (can't really make out what you are typing though). It is hardly a big deal. If you make so much money off your referrals, switch your link. Simple.
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Old 03-03-2009, 01:34 PM   #22
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Thank you erect, your post is great.

/fed up with crappy networks
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Old 03-03-2009, 02:09 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrynYoungblut View Post
Sure it can, for those actually making money I would rather more rewards and free money than pity referral commissions. It's a trade off.

You idiots thinking you're going to bank a ton off referrals are out of your mind because no big affiliate will work under a referral anyways.

ur making more off rewards? really? unless ive mis-calculated, 5% referral commission from 50k sales = $2500...would u rather take that or push to gross 50k in sales just to win a $500 digital camera?

ur right, no big affiliate is going to sign up under another as a sub-aff, but we all started somewhere right? don't tell me u never read someones blog and signed up under them when u were a newb....and gess wat, ur making ur referrer some nice change now that ur a "big dog".

btw...any ballers who thinks referral income is petty and im whining, then please send me all of ur 2% commissions.
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Old 03-03-2009, 02:20 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AudienceSnipe View Post
ur making more off rewards? really? unless ive mis-calculated, 5% referral commission from 50k sales = $2500...would u rather take that or push to gross 50k in sales just to win a $500 digital camera?

ur right, no big affiliate is going to sign up under another as a sub-aff, but we all started somewhere right? don't tell me u never read someones blog and signed up under them when u were a newb....and gess wat, ur making ur referrer some nice change now that ur a "big dog".

btw...any ballers who thinks referral income is petty and im whining, then please send me all of ur 2% commissions.
I'm not sending anyone shit since I don't have a referrer because of the reason I stated. Stop whining already it's getting old.
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Old 03-03-2009, 02:24 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AudienceSnipe View Post
ur making more off rewards? really? unless ive mis-calculated, 5% referral commission from 50k sales = $2500...would u rather take that or push to gross 50k in sales just to win a $500 digital camera?

ur right, no big affiliate is going to sign up under another as a sub-aff, but we all started somewhere right? don't tell me u never read someones blog and signed up under them when u were a newb....and gess wat, ur making ur referrer some nice change now that ur a "big dog".

btw...any ballers who thinks referral income is petty and im whining, then please send me all of ur 2% commissions.
At the end of the day, that 2% will bite into their payout. I closed my reffered account and made a new one for that reason exactly.

Basically, your referrer can have that 2% or you can. What's gonna be your choice?
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Old 03-03-2009, 02:34 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrynYoungblut View Post
I'm not sending anyone shit since I don't have a referrer because of the reason I stated. Stop whining already it's getting old.
whos whining, im stating the facts which u clearly are avoiding b/c u have no argument. ill bet u everyone in here has signed up under someone at some point in their career while reading mmo blogs, i find it hard to believe u never have.
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Old 03-03-2009, 03:43 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AudienceSnipe View Post
whos whining, im stating the facts which u clearly are avoiding b/c u have no argument. ill bet u everyone in here has signed up under someone at some point in their career while reading mmo blogs, i find it hard to believe u never have.
I wish you would just shut up and go work on a campaign or something. Big deal, you lost 3%. Go find a new campaign and make up for that 3% and then some.
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Old 03-03-2009, 03:48 PM   #28
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+rep to erect and CyngusX! You two are dead on!
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Old 03-03-2009, 03:57 PM   #29
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I'm sure that Ruck & The C2M guys labored over this decision.

Although I can see why some people would be pissed you have to give them credit for being honest.

#1 - They could go right around you, change peoples CD#'s and you would earn no commissions and never know why.
#2 - They could never tell publishers why they arent getting the best possible payout on their offer.

Business is a tough thing. You can't make everyone happy all of the time. These guys are straight up with everyone and it deserves some respect. You don't find that in many companies or people nowadays.
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Old 03-03-2009, 03:59 PM   #30
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Changing the rules in the middle of the game & giving affiliates the option of breaking the original referral for an extra X% sounds like a bait and switch.
+rep
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Old 03-03-2009, 04:03 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by narsticle View Post
I'm sure that Ruck & The C2M guys labored over this decision.

Although I can see why some people would be pissed you have to give them credit for being honest.

#1 - They could go right around you, change peoples CD#'s and you would earn no commissions and never know why.
#2 - They could never tell publishers why they arent getting the best possible payout on their offer.

Business is a tough thing. You can't make everyone happy all of the time. These guys are straight up with everyone and it deserves some respect. You don't find that in many companies or people nowadays.
Well said, unfortunately most of these people don't realize this.
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Old 03-03-2009, 04:05 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by narsticle View Post
I'm sure that Ruck & The C2M guys labored over this decision.

Although I can see why some people would be pissed you have to give them credit for being honest.

#1 - They could go right around you, change peoples CD#'s and you would earn no commissions and never know why.
#2 - They could never tell publishers why they arent getting the best possible payout on their offer.

Business is a tough thing. You can't make everyone happy all of the time. These guys are straight up with everyone and it deserves some respect. You don't find that in many companies or people nowadays.
agreed...i kno ruck and everyone over at c2m are gud guys, im jux sayin that if i referred some1 at 5%, they shud stay that way, and any future referrals will be at 2%.
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Old 03-03-2009, 04:05 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruck View Post
we ALWAYS go at the publisher and tell them they aren't going to get the best deal because they have been referred.


I recently posted on my blog:

Quote:
The difference is the aforementioned in this industry don't know when to shut their mouth. See in real businesses the talking heads have handlers and PR people to prevent missteps and do damage control on the ones they missed.
It seemed relevant here.

Seriously? Did you just post that?

Let me make sure I understand this:

1) You offer a referral commission - thus asking other pubs to refer 2nd tier accounts, people who want to sign up under them.

2) You never tell to the referers (1st tiers) that you're going to fuck with their referrals.

3) When you get in touch with the referrals/2nd tier accounts, you tell them that because someone referred them they're never going to get the best deal.

4) ?? At this point do you advise them to open a 2nd account to dodge paying the referral? Or do you just run a nice update query to shave the referrals? Somehow I doubt that you tell people to take their business to another network because you can't compete with their payouts.

GTFO my industry.

Edit: Yes I know who Ruck is, no I don't care.
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Old 03-03-2009, 04:06 PM   #34
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If the network needs to raise what they pay to publishers by lowering the referral cut there really is no option. Say they kept those publishers at 5% for you and kept what they pay those publishers low to support it while all new publishers get better rates. What exactly do you think would happen there? Obviously those guys will just delete those accounts and get another one and the network would have no reason to stop it.

As has been said I don't think referral programs will ever be able to be a big source of revenue. Only an extremely lucky AM that made money but is pretty stupid would say someones referral. They would simple start a business and become there own refferal to maximize revune.

If you want to keep referrals under you you have to provide them with some value. I'm currently a referral of someone on a network and will be as long as they provide me with useful advice and help. If I start making it on my own without there help I will stay under them for awhile but certainly not forever.

Being a referral for someone else and making them money if they don't help you at all is about as stupid as paying full retail price at some online retailer when you could have gotten some discount by referring yourself.
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Old 03-03-2009, 04:08 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AudienceSnipe View Post
agreed...i kno ruck and everyone over at c2m are gud guys, im jux sayin that if i referred some1 at 5%, they shud stay that way, and any future referrals will be at 2%.
It hurt me to read this English and still have to agree with you.. but you're right. Even eBay, the mother of all terribly run programs, grandfathered people when they moved commission structures. Twice.
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Old 03-03-2009, 04:08 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by AudienceSnipe View Post
agreed...i kno ruck and everyone over at c2m are gud guys, im jux sayin that if i referred some1 at 5%, they shud stay that way, and any future referrals will be at 2%.
Jesus, can we ban this illiterate cunt yet?
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Old 03-03-2009, 04:13 PM   #37
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FWIW, I don't do referrals. Never have done a single one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by miketpowell View Post
If the network needs to raise what they pay to publishers by lowering the referral cut there really is no option. Say they kept those publishers at 5% for you and kept what they pay those publishers low to support it while all new publishers get better rates. What exactly do you think would happen there?
This isn't the publisher's problem. Publishers are running a business, networks are running a business.

Quote:
Originally Posted by miketpowell View Post
If you want to keep referrals under you you have to provide them with some value. I'm currently a referral of someone on a network and will be as long as they provide me with useful advice and help. If I start making it on my own without there help I will stay under them for awhile but certainly not forever.
And if that person is helping you to earn his 5%, hopefully for your sake he still will continue to help you out when the network decides to cut his commissions by ~60%.

While I don't care for it, there are a lot of bloggers who make the majority of their income by blogging about "how" to do affiliate marketing. And they make most of their revenue by referrals.

Quote:
Originally Posted by miketpowell View Post
Being a referral for someone else and making them money if they don't help you at all is about as stupid as paying full retail price at some online retailer when you could have gotten some discount by referring yourself.
Except you just contradicted yourself, saying that you'd stay under that person as long as they helped you.

I get your points, I just don't agree.

Simple fix here, everyone stop recommending affiliate networks that are prone to pull this kind of crap. If there's no money to be earned in referring a new publisher, why create more competition for yourself on that network's exclusive offers?
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Old 03-03-2009, 04:14 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by Sohan View Post
At the end of the day, that 2% will bite into their payout. I closed my reffered account and made a new one for that reason exactly.

Basically, your referrer can have that 2% or you can. What's gonna be your choice?
I never realized the networks just cut 2% off your revenue and give it to the person who refered you. Do they just shave a couple leads here and there or just decrease your payouts by 2% across the board? I figured it came out of the networks 20 to 30% cut as a way to thank the refer.

When closing an account with a network to get your 2% back, do you make up some excuse to your AM. Or just flat out say I don't want my referrer getting my 2% anymore, I need a new account. I'm guessing AMs don't care as all they just want your business.
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Old 03-03-2009, 04:16 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by PSU4Life View Post
When closing an account with a network to get your 2% back, do you make up some excuse to your AM. Or just flat out say I don't want my referrer getting my 2% anymore, I need a new account. I'm guessing AMs don't care as all they just want your business.
Well I'd like to give Ruck a fair chance to post his answer, so I'm going to hold off on speculating as much as possible - but I can't imagine it being any way but the latter for the majority of these people. I've heard a lot of about how much of a stand-up org c.2.m is, so we'll see.
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Old 03-03-2009, 04:19 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bb_wolfe View Post
Jesus, can we ban this illiterate cunt yet?
haha dude, am i writing a thesis here? since when did everyone online start use proper grammar and avoided using short-hand? only those who have nothing constructive to say pick at others' grammar and spelling mistakes, etc. if you don't think i'm aware of how i'm writing and that it's done intentionally, then you're an idiot. if proofreading people's post is your thing, why don't you go find all the posts closing with "good luck bro" and have yourself a field day.
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Old 03-03-2009, 04:21 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by AudienceSnipe View Post
np, at least u admitted ur oversight and didnt continue to defend urself like u was right. i was jux venting, dunno why everyones hatin, except for ERECT and a couple others who understand my point.
damn it feels good to use no caps....
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Old 03-03-2009, 04:22 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AudienceSnipe View Post
haha dude, am i writing a thesis here? since when did everyone online start use proper grammar and avoided using short-hand? only those who have nothing constructive to say pick at others' grammar and spelling mistakes, etc. if you don't think i'm aware of how i'm writing and that it's done intentionally, then you're an idiot. if proofreading people's post is your thing, why don't you go find all the posts closing with "good luck bro" and have yourself a field day.
We shouldn't have to TRY to read your fucking post. We don't care about your wigger lifestyle.

You == YouTube - The Offspring - Pretty Fly (For A White Guy)
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Old 03-03-2009, 04:26 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AudienceSnipe View Post
haha dude, am i writing a thesis here? since when did everyone online start use proper grammar and avoided using short-hand? only those who have nothing constructive to say pick at others' grammar and spelling mistakes, etc. if you don't think i'm aware of how i'm writing and that it's done intentionally, then you're an idiot. if proofreading people's post is your thing, why don't you go find all the posts closing with "good luck bro" and have yourself a field day.
Maybe consider writing a thesis and add value to the community. You may find people respect you more.. or continue to sound like an idiot and anything but a professional. Your choice.

BTW, I miss Sumit.

good luck bro
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Old 03-03-2009, 04:33 PM   #44
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TakinThePlunge -

No I agree with you more than you think. A network should not cut commission on referrals no should it tell people when they sign up they could get more by dropping the refer. Both of those are bad business ethics.


My point was that there is very little that can be done to prevent the loss of commission from referrals one way or another. Either the person is to stupid to earn so you don't make anything or they are smart enough to make some money and figure out that they can make another account under themselves to increase profit.


So loosing commissions from from top preforming referrals is enviable unless you provide them with long term service of value, because they are essentially paying you money they could get. So although the network is doing something rather unethical the moral outrage is not there because if they let accounts stay grandfathered and did not offer to let affiliates drop refers for more payments the situation would be about the same. The exception being the idiots that just get lucky but are to stupid to realize they are giving up a portion of their profits.
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Old 03-03-2009, 04:44 PM   #45
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The truth is that networks are just going to have to go to a flat rate CPA for each referred affiliate if they truly want to be fair and avoid this.
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Old 03-03-2009, 04:49 PM   #46
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I bet when you started pushing for referrals when c2m were new they stated you would recieve 5% for the life of the affiliate, yet now that they have grown some they back out on their end. My opinion is new ones should be at 2% old at 5%
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Old 03-03-2009, 05:01 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by jstme View Post
I bet when you started pushing for referrals when c2m were new they stated you would recieve 5% for the life of the affiliate, yet now that they have grown some they back out on their end. My opinion is new ones should be at 2% old at 5%
right, that's the fairest thing to do. at least then, i have the option of wether i wish to continue promoting them...which i would not. obviously, referrals are valuable to them, otherwise, why wouldn't they just say no referral commissions from here on out? maybe because they know that they would be seeing a slump in growth due to lack of referrals.
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Old 03-03-2009, 05:13 PM   #48
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Quote:
ur making more off rewards? really? unless ive mis-calculated, 5% referral commission from 50k sales = $2500...would u rather take that or push to gross 50k in sales just to win a $500 digital camera?
I think you're missing the point here dude...

If YOU make 50k you get a $500 camera
If YOUR referrals make you 50k (at 5%) you get $2500

Big difference
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Old 03-03-2009, 05:20 PM   #49
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Whether anyone cares or not, I've made a public response:

[url=http://www.convert2media.com/blog/2009/03/03/cutting-referrals-down-to-2/]Cutting Referrals Down To 2% | Convert2Media[/url]

Some wont like it, some will.
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Old 03-03-2009, 05:29 PM   #50
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I like Ruck.

I like C2M.

I like this new system.

That's all I have to say.
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