arahim3

Azoogle settled the ringtone investigation for $1 million dollars

News Release - Attorney General McCollum Unveils New Cyberfraud Task Force

Court Filing:
http://myfloridalegal.com/webfiles.n...VC10-31-07.pdf

$1 million - easy business write off. One would have to assume their on the decline - considering their shady email background (Spamhaus listings), their boot from CJ (eBay), dozens of layoffs, denial of a second round of VC financing, and now this. Interesting note: Joe and Alex hired former Gambino crime family attorneys to defend them in this investigation.

The settlement also serves as a wake-up call to the rest of the players in the ringtone industry. The bottom line is that carriers, aggregators, ringtone providers, and affiliate networks ARE responsible and WILL be accountable for their actions. It's not enough for an affiliate network to hide affiliates (and themselves) behind an "ID." And although the "Florida" attorney general's office settled - it doesn't exclude other state's from further action. It's not unusual to see other states jump in on these kinda things.

Unfortunately, many players in the industry continue to be non-compliant. For example, Copeac, also under investigation:
Free Cingular Ringtones - Ringtones - Bonus Ringtones, Ring Tone, Ring Back & Ringers

Customized page made (made by WickedFire member: EduardoM3) - No pricing, No terms/conditions, and "Free"

Traffix now owned by New Motion, Inc (Mobile Sidewalk) uses "Free" in all their PPC ads.

When you see these kinda things it's no wonder the ringtone space is being hit with new rules and regulations. All the players in the industry are going to have to do a better job of monitoring and enforcement because ignorance of the law is no excuse.

Jon

Can you post a copy of Eduardo's site/landing page with the "free" claims?

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arahim3

Are you saying that Eduardo didn't make Copeac's glamtones page? - the link is in my post. It has NO pricing, terms/conditions, and "Free" via DKI.

Eduardo is the "provider" whose system powers Glamtones for Copeac also he runs yixe.com (personal)

I quote Eduardo's post from another WF thread:
The intelligent/ethical marketers who have been here from the beginning and are still around despite all the market changes will continue to stay. The people who use deceptive ad-copy, don't have any bid management technology and those who have all their eggs in one basket are the ones who will not only be hurt by this, but by every change this market has while its evolving into a much more established and consumer-friendly market.

Jon

The get-ringtones-today.com without the keyword tracking is also appearing as "free cingular ringtones" for me, but not for others it seems. Although it is right underneath the *$9.99 part.... but Copeac/Intermark Media doesn't own that domain, they do however own gl.amtones.com.

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arahim3

The landing page is not compliant and the leads go thru Copeac/Intermark Media.

wsmith810

Very interesting information...
What does this mean for the Affiliates themselves besides more rules... Shouldn't they be held liable in some way? Or does it all fall back on the networks?

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Jon

I'm not fending for anyone on this shit...

I'm just pointing out that they don't own that domain. Simple whois lookup buddy. Haha!

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Jon

I don't know, nor do I really care who made what site for the other guy. If they want to come here and explain it to ya, by all means have it out with them. Don't start pulling me into this mess. I get into enough shit as it is, I don't want to be involved in any ringtone he said she said bullshit.

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Insomniac

If you took even two seconds to try to submit a number you'd find that the page redirects to a disabled account. Copeac has done their job by identifying a shady publisher and stopping them from using the offer. End of story.

wsmith810

Thank you

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arahim3

Insomniac,

The page was JUST disabled by Copeac as I'm told Jon contacted them. This page has been live for MONTHS.

This non-compliant page may belong to an affiliate but there are others which belong to Copeac (house accounts). I will not divulge that information here as Jon said we do not want to start a pissing match - contact me by PM if you must. The point of my post is that the industry remains plagued by violations. This issue doesn't just affect Copeac - AzoogleAds, PrimaryAds, CPA Empire, Traffix/New Motion, Dada Mobile, Thumbplay are all actively involved in some sort of shady marketing (knowingly or otherwise). I suggest reading Jon's post (Prostitutes & Affiliates - The Cops Don't Care) about how serious the "police" is getting on enforcement.

Andrew

No idea who you are, but here is what I see:

The landing page can say anything Lick My Balls - Ringtones - Bonus Ringtones, Ring Tone, Ring Back & Ringers ; you should show a link to the actual ad saying free ringtones

This agreement is with Azoogle (which "does not constitute any evidence or admission of any kind.") This was not a fine but a "contribution" for their trust fund (page 8.)

I don't see how this involves any party other than Azoogle. How can "PrimaryAds, CPA Empire, Traffix/New Motion, Dada Mobile, Thumbplay" and so on violate an agreement that they were not part of?

Shady? May be. I think insurance companies selling people hurricane insurance and then not paying is pretty damn shady. The "shadiness" of an event seems pretty irrelevant here.

Jon

I didn't contact anyone... Who are you getting your information from Kent?

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casidnet

From what I can see quite a bit of the original post is wrong/misguided.

Insomniac

If you're not happy with the speed at which gl.amtones removes an affiliate account I suggest you contact Ed directly and you will have the publisher banned within minutes of him receiving your message. Ed is far from interested in running some lameass for a few extra dollars.

Ben

I agree. I have designed many LPs for the networks, Ed has been the most strict when it comes to following guidelines. I have numerous revisions to prove it.

arahim3

Really? So what would he be doing promoting the ringtones as "free" himself?



... convenient mistake? - EduardoM3 promoting "free" ringtones via yixe.com (dada mobile)

you can defend Copeac all you want, I understand a lot of you make good money from them, but look at their house account site:
http://www.ringtoneevolution.com - middle of the page:
Ringtone Providers: There are many service providers to choose from. Our partners include:

Funmobile: Funmobile seeks to take a comprehensive approach to the cell phone market. Not only do they offer ringtones but they provide some of the hottest screen savers, background images, and games out. Supporting the trendy cell phone market they support CDMA, TDMA, and the fast rising SIM Card GSM phones. With just 3 easy steps to download a ringtone from funmobile.com at no charge for any carrier.They offer a complimentary ringtone to get you started.

sure most people won't scroll down to the middle of the page, that's old, it's a mistake, my dog ate it, blah blah IF we can't expect a NETWORK's marketing efforts to be compliant what hope is there for affiliate policing?

btw, that is just ONE Copeac non-compliant example there are others but my intention is NOT to single out Copeac - as I said before the entire industry is VERY dirty in its current state so its no surprise that lawsuits are flying left and right.

each and every affiliate network is dealing with compliance violations on a daily basis - some delete e-mails because they're top $hoemonkey is bringing in too much to do anything about it - while a few actually withhold earnings to make a point

in any case the next big thing for ringtones is the cingular pin confirmation removal which has been delayed until February of '08 - maybe march. this step was added in the UK years ago and the average PPC conversion there is 4-5% max (granted its a different setup). because cingular is top 1 (or 2 depending who u ask) this is bound to have a negative impact - the real impact will be if verizon et al follow suit

smaxor

Doubt it, as it probably cost them close to that to prosecute. If they won a bunch of money into the state coffers then probably but in this case I doubt it. One million bucks is a loss in this case, they cut their losses cause they probably figured out it was to complicated without enough hard evidence to prosecute. But in the end it's a mere slap on the wrist. I don't run ringtones but don't much give a shit anyways :P Just like to throw my 2 cents into the ring.

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arahim3

It looks like jon didn't approve my previous post. With all the moderation and bannings taking place how does this place have any credibility?

I guess the screenshot evidence is just too incriminating against those with deep pockets.

turbolapp

*sigh* we a popup message for the n00bs that say "Since you have under 10 posts certain posts go into moderation"

Who are you by the way? I think someone else asked that but you never answered the question. What's your angle? It's unusal for a n00b to come in here with guns blazing like that so I'm just a bit curious as to your background.

PrimetimeAff

I'm a relative affiliate newbie and am just getting familiar with Azoogle. i saw this post and then did some homework. they have issued a company statement and i saw an article on iMedia this morning from them talking about internet safety. Seems like they're taking a real leadership position on this.

Insomniac

Next time take a few moments to record the link so that Ed can identify which publisher did that and deal with them. You seem to like blaming Ed and Copeac for the actions of their publishers rather than realizing that it is almost impossible to completely police what publishers do.

arahim3

Insomniac,

I thought I was pretty clear - Eduardo HIMSELF and NOTa "publisher" is responsible for the screenshot I posted.

What happens when CPA Empire sends myspace traffic to Eduardo? You think he refuses it? Do I need to answer that or do you get what I'm saying?

Again, if we can't expect the NETWORKS' in house accounts to be legitimate, how can we expect them to police affiliates?

arahim3

Don't believe that. Azoogle recently re-designed their website. It now mentions a "tougher" stance on compliance, a higher level of integrity, BLAH BLAH ... what do you expect them to say? They are under TREMENDOUS pressure from their VC investors to produce results which are long overdue. Their monthly affiliate payouts are LESS than CPA Empire, Clickbooth, & Hydra Media. Yes, it's true. Maybe you shouldn't put 85% of your eggs in the ringtone basket.

Did you know that one of Azoogle's biggest affiliates was a HEAVY promoter of "FREE" ringtones - the keyword list provided to this affiliate belonged to OTHER Azoogle affiliates (yes joe and alex sell out all your top keywords) - guess what happened to this affiliate company - AzoogleAds Acquires Bazaar Advertising - Azoogle BOUGHT them.

PrimetimeAff

Why do you say 'results are long overdue'? I've spent a ton of time on the boards and doing research on CPA co's, and all over the place they come highly recommended by other aff's, have given me GREAT customer service so far, are hiring a bunch of people, are releasing all kinds of positive press lately and so maybe I'm just being naive but this doesn't seem to mesh with what you post. What kind of VC pressures in particular are you referring to? I found a Business Week article from 2005 that said they waited 5 years to take any VC funding, which means they were a pretty solid business before that and not having to use any funding for the operations and presumably with everything I'm reading now they probably have grown since then. I might be new to the CPA space but not new to business in general and I'm not sure everything you write adds up.

arahim3

Primetimeaff,

What do you mean by receiving good press and hiring? You're way off. They are receiving bad press and in fact they've laid off more than 20 people within the last year. So, yes you are new and you are not aware of what is going on behind the scenes. I suggest you use the search button and do some research.

I saw your post at DP regarding Azoogle and Blockbuster. Basically Azoogle got Blockbuster, Azoogle tested the offer (by bidding on the trademark of course), loved the margin. Thereafter, they got an exclusive from Blockbuster, slashed the CPA for their affiliates so they could keep their own margins. But as you know by now, Azoogle owns Bazaar. Basically Bazaar is there to take the best keywords from the top affiliates so they can promote it on their own. Bet you didn't know that Thumbplay's exclusive search marketer is none other than Bazaar/Azoogle. So keep running their offers and passing the keyword as subid=MYKEYWORD ... so that people like this guy who works for Azoogle/Bazaar can screw you:

Bill Softky's Resume

Bill Softky
Chief Algorithmist
Bazaar Advertising / Azoogle Ads
2006-present
Foster City

Education:
Ph.D., Computation & Neural Systems / Physics

Ph.D.'s backstabbing affiliates. Ooooohhhh what an industry.

PrimetimeAff

Arahim,

Well, my first question is 'how the heck do you know so much'? Kudos to you, I would have to think you're really close to the action on this.

But honestly, I really have done a lot of research and I see a lot of open positions on their site - so they are hiring. And then looking at their recent announcements and several articles I've come across, I would classify those as positive. Obviously, you have a negative take on some of those as you mention, but I'm just using evidence from the research I've done and the very positive word-of-mouth experiences from other Aff's. I guess you're entitled to your opinion but i'm using factual evidence really from a newbie/outsider perspective and I'm just saying from my perspective the criticism doesn't seem like it adds up, that's all.

wsmith810

arahim3, thanks for posting all the info...
I think a lot of people just dont want to wake up and realize the harsh reality of whats going on.
Bill

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casidnet

arahim3 doesn't know what he is talking about. He is wrong on so many things it's not even funny. I would go through item by item but it's pretty safe to say everything.

Palmerville

What's the point here? Maybe I'm slow (probably) but I don't see what you're getting at?

Azoogle appears to have acted like any other company interested in it's own well being. Maximizing profits. Maybe they told small time affiliates to follow the rules while breaking them themselves and allowing big players to continue. Probably worth more than 1mm to do so.

Stealing your super secret ringtone keywords? lol.

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Insomniac

What makes you so sure that was Ed? Do you at least have a date/time of when that screenshot was taken?

arahim3

Insomniac,

yixe.com belongs to Ed - it's his OWN deal - what's not clear about that? There's NO affiliates/publishers involved with yixe.com

He has an account here so why doesn't he just explain it for himself

EduardoM3

I initially decided not to involve myself in this thread as the proof is in the pudding, and the community will come out and speak the truth. I will continue to stay out of this thread but I want to point a few facts.

1 - I can 100% guarantee that is not us in that screenshot.Nice try but we no longer send traffic to Yixe.
2 - We under no circumstance allow our technology to be used with any type of spam traffic. We only work with networks who have compliance teams in place to police their affiliates, if we find it before them, we have them shut down that affiliate.

Eduardo.

arahim3

Eduardo,

You are flat out lying. When you say no longer, are you saying that at one point you did advertise "free" ringtones with Yixe/Dada (the screenshot posted is from the first week of November 2007)? What did Dada think of this, as "free" has been banned for YEARS.

While you are continuing to lie, answer this, also for the record...

Are you or have you ever knowingly accepted MYSPACE (PHISHING) traffic from CPA Empire?

Before you keep lying, note that I have plenty of proof that you or your cohorts may not want on here.

lubber

arahim3 - nobody is going to answer anything to you because you are here talking shit but nobody knows who you are. You keep ignoring that question. So, in the spirit of you wanting questions answered why not lead by example and tell the fine people here who you are. Then since you are such a paragon of honest business, go to earners forum and have a Jesus freak with old whats his face! Damn, what is it with people sticking there nose in other peoples business?

Jon

Well, I think it's time for me to chime in here and make sure this shit doesn't hit the industrial strength fan, since it's already caused one hell of a mess so far..

1- You claim to know a lot, which is fine and all, but why don't you come clean with your identity? I had a few guesses, but now I'm not so sure I was right. I know lots of the other people and companies you've mentioned here are pretty pissed off with your comments, so even if it's industry suicide for you to reveal your identity, no one will take you seriously. No one that is, that has a brain they use.

2- Claiming to have stats and proof can only go so far... Either show us what you have, that is LEGITIMATE and not some doctored up screen shot or email, or I'm locking this thread.

You have approximately 4 hours to comply from the time you read this... and since you're logged in right now and most likely marveling at this thread and all of the damage you've caused thus far, you have until 10:30PM EST.

If you don't want to come clean or public with it, you should at least come to me. I promise to keep your identity a secret, but I will need PROOF that everything you've said on here is in fact the truth.

I'm not taking any sides either, so don't give me that whole "ohhh you're friends with them so you're taking their side" bullshit. Because I've allowed this to go on for long enough without stepping in, but now, this is borderline harassment and slander, and anything that may compromise WickedFire and it's brand/position in the industry becomes MY business. We're not there yet, but from the looks of things, it won't be long, so stop being a douche, and come clean. I can guarantee that if what you are saying and claiming IS true, you will get the same treatment that any friend or member here gets, and I will personally see to it that you are treated fairly and not banned or silenced.

So now it's on you my shitstorm drama causing friend.

PS - I read through your other posts, and we never once silenced you or shut you up. I'd also like to say, that if you dare involve me with any of this shit, and claim you have proof of me being involved, which is total fucking bullshit, and you know it, because there is no proof, because it's a fucking lie. But anyway, if you do put me into your mess, then I will take action against you personally, and unlike everyone else here, I have a ton of cash and time to have a field day with anyone who fucks with my reputation. I'm also a hell of a lot more creative than anyone else, so take this as your first and final warning. Don't involve me. Ya dig?

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arahim3

I have been PM'd by a higher up at a [major] corporation and will be revealing this to them. I don't even know how to use photoshop - let alone doctor an image. My business is sales. By the way, Jon, it's fine if you want to claim you have a lot of "cash" - but you live with your grandmother in an apartment.

Tell pappa bear to keep guessing. I've owned him again.

Jon

An apartment with my grandma? And where is this apartment you speak of? I would love to know, because none of my grandparents live in any apartments, anywhere.

Are you fucking my grandmother? Did she tell you she lives in an apt so you would stop stalking her?

Haha

A PM from a [major] corporation eh? Yes. Very believable.. so a MAJOR corporation swung by here, read your amazing thread, and then PM'ed you to say "Hey there Kent, we want to let you know that you are doing a fantastic job! Please continue to sound like a douchebag and make things up until we give you further instructions --GOD"

Hahahaha

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Jon

KENT KEILBACK...

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Jon

I know it's you Mr Keilback... and let me show you just how stupid you were, and where you fucked up... So that when you're trying to get a new job, after Yahoo/Blue Lithium fires you for what you did here, and after all of the networks you mentioned sue the shit out of you, and let's face it, since you've just killed your own reputation at one shot on some stupid forum like this one... BRILLIANT. Well done dude.

Funny too, because I don't think I've ever met you before either. Ah well, next time maybe you'll think first before acting all high and mighty and spewing shit about people and companies with no proof to back it up..

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Jon

The proof: (unlike you, we post proof right away and don't taunt people with it).

You fucked up, because you used your own Photobucket account, instead of using a random one, like the email address you used when registering here. Just because a photobucket form says "name, email" doesn't mean you have to fill out the correct information Mr Genius...

photobucket.com/albums/aa130/kkeilback/eduardo_free2.gif

photobucket.com/albums/aa130/kkeilback

Seems you also have a hardon for going after Shoemoney. Won't he be interested to know what you had in store for him. Pissed at him for nuking the thread on DigitalPoint eh?

I wonder what's racing through your mind now? Seems the only place your ass is going to be racing to is the nearest exit.

Have a good career in a new industry you dipshit.

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EduardoM3

Mr. Keilback,

We never will knowingly accept any spam traffic from myspace or any other social network. Feel free to expose as much "information" as you have on us. We have nothing to hide from the public.

Also due to the fact that your postings are related to the online marketing industry you work in and that you are posting these comments during traditional work hours we are assuming that they represent those of your employer (Yahoo/Blue Lithium).

wsmith810

FUCKING OWNED!

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PrimetimeAff

Wow, this thread got a whole lot more interesting! Thanks to the rest of you for shedding some light on why things weren't adding up for me about everything mentioned above by Arahim, er I mean Kent whoever that is.

turbolapp

I vote this the thread of month.

Tune in next month for Internet Bigwigs that live with their Grandmas.

Bofu2U

So that's what Yahoo/BLue Lithium believes huh.. Looks like I won't be advertising with Yahoo anytime soon now.

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PrimetimeAff

HA, I 2nd that! Great thread and its good to see these punks getting called out. I thought these forums were for conversations based in fact (not for people with an axe to grind against certain companies) and for open opinions (coherent ones).

cc23

With so much drama in the WF Forum
Its kinda hard bein c-c- 2-3
But i, somehow, some way
Keep comin up with funky ass marketing tricks like every day

May i, kick a little something for the gs
And, make a few ends as I breeze, through
Two in the mornin and the partys still jumpin
Cause my grand-momma aint home

wsmith810

fuck yahoo and Kent omglosthisjob Keilback

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