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Old 05-07-2008, 10:23 AM   #1
superman
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Vent PAYPAL Destroy My Business

I am looking into people who have had their business damaged by Paypal.

Here's my paypal horror story: Apirl 27 account Lock or limits is what they call it ...
Limits means I can do nothing on my paypal account cannot
accept payment or give payments.

My business is based on paying people for blog reviews and receiving payment from advertiser to get blog reviews.

Paypal does not even care to speak with you about anything .
I call and those people say we have nothing to do with that part of account being in limits ...

So guess what more dispute keep popping up everyday ..

I email Paypal are you guy stupid ? (Understand after 5 phones call to them and 15 emails wthout help I am loosing my cool ) The dispute I tell Paypal are because you locked my account and cannot pay these people..


OH! my whole business is dead my site is down because the host was paid by paypal. The last dispute said he heard we were out of business !!!


Lawsuit against paypal for damages ??? I got one piece of info from paypal that all this was because someone purchased with a fraud credit card ?
What that's our fault ?


So tell me anyone felt the paypal pain ?
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Old 05-07-2008, 11:53 AM   #2
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Wow... that was a rant. You don't even have time or patience for grammar or spelling or making sense...

Try contacting someone at paypal.

Have a clear list of things to ask / things to dispute.

Try getting higher up the chain of command.

Sucks to be in your situation.

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Old 05-07-2008, 11:56 AM   #3
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Thats a terrible situation to be in. I think alot of webmasters income does come from Paypal. Wonder if there are GOOD paypal alternatives...
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Old 05-07-2008, 12:21 PM   #4
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This is a sad story and all. But all I could think about is where the traffic from "paypal limit locks goes"

Google
Nowheres

Here are some alternatives. And no, I dont own or work with any of them.

PayPal Alternatives - 6 services you can use as an alternative to PayPal
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Old 05-07-2008, 12:40 PM   #5
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Google Checkout is an alternative I have ready in case something goes wrong with PayPal. I still prefer PayPal 150% but I would never let my business get damaged because of one company. Never put all your eggs in one basket.

It is ridiculous that they would suspend your account because of someone else paying with a fraud credit card. If what you are saying is true, then it may be best to just offer to pay PayPal back the amount they lost due to a fraudulent transaction and write it off as a business expense. This shit happens.
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Old 05-07-2008, 02:27 PM   #6
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Your first mistake was relying 100% on PayPal alone so really I don't feel bad for you because a smart person would have had there site backed up with other payment processors, ect...

You don't have to have the others active but you should have them there and the reason for this is because if PayPal ever does freeze your account it will only take you 30 seconds to put up another payment system and to send out an email to your customers/clients saying payment terms need to be changed a little bit.

Or if your having issues paying them because PayPal froze your account tell them about it instantly and take the hit with your credit card until you get through the mess.

It doesn't sound like you've taken the time to do anything to protect yourself in the first place.
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Old 05-07-2008, 05:16 PM   #7
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I've been bitten in the ass by them before too.
Join the club.

PayPalSucks.com is where you will learn about the PayPal Class Action Lawsuit, Abuse, Fraud & evil behind the PayPal system!

A few years ago an idiot could not figure out how to download a digital product I was selling on ebay. It was all setup to automatically alert the auction purchaser of how to download the item after winning. I was away on a cruise (which was clearly stated in the auction)and would not be able to respond to questions for at least 3 days. I had a short FAQ and a voice mail number with a message on how to download the product if you if had an issue.

Now mind you, No one had ever had any problem getting the download, but I'm just a "cover all bases" type of guy. After winning the auction The asshole emailed paypal telling them that I had scammed him. 3 hours later he figured out what happened and he called them to tell them it was his fault and he'd gotten the product.

Do you know what the awesome folks at paypal did? They froze the fuckin account for 180 days. Even after close to 20 emails and phone calls (me and the asshole) explaining that it was all a mix up. I did not feel like wasting anymore time fuckin around with them so I let it go. In hindsight, it made me realize you better spread your shit around or risk getting shafted.


These days I only bear with them simply because a lot of my clients want to use them. Any money deposited into my paypal account is instantly deposited into a fresh bank account I created only for paypal use. That money is them immediately as well. I don't trust those fuckers as far as I can throw them.

I also have google checkout as a backup and a real live merchant account as well. I have a backup merchant account on hold too.
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Old 05-07-2008, 07:13 PM   #8
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Ummm, considering this post: paypalsucks.com

Why the same hell are you still using paypal?

There's a saying, and it begins with "Fool me once..."
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Old 05-07-2008, 09:13 PM   #9
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Dude, my accounts has been limited for 1 1/2 months now over some bullshit that happened on eBay. I was paying for my hosting via PayPal also but switched to CC after limiting. Goodluck with that
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Old 05-08-2008, 12:03 AM   #10
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Old 05-08-2008, 02:20 AM   #11
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I also suggest Moneybookers and Authorize.net (besides google checkout) as possible paypal alternatives
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Old 05-08-2008, 04:03 AM   #12
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File a small claims case in your county vs. Paypal for the maximum [typicaly $5k] amount you can.

Chances are they will try and asnwer the suite and get it dismissed. Make sure you have proof. Come the day of trial chances are they won't show up and you can snag a win by default.

Profit.
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Old 05-08-2008, 06:18 AM   #13
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I have used Paypal for almost 9 years and in that time my account has been locked so many times I have lost count. Paypal have such a monopoly that they can treat people however they like and use there massive cash reserves to self regulate in Europe.

My worst dispute was for almost $20k when they locked my account as my GF was scammed on Ebay selling an autograph. She kept the payment/send receipt for almost 3 weeks then she got a chargeback from Paypal which she disputed as the buyer told her on the phone it was perfect.

As her account was pretty new they locked it right away and then in about 3 hours my account was locked as i was associated due to having the same landline phone number. I called them up and they told me that it was a safety measure so my GF could not use my account to sell on Ebay and once her account was live again so would mine.

After a couple of days I gave up with paypal uk (or ierland) and spent $600 calling the US trying to get them to escalate it to an executive. After days of fighting I got a result when it went to a special department who requested i send in copies of invoices etc to prove the money was mine. It took about 14 days to reopen the accounts which is pathetic when people use it for business.

Things I learned

1. When you sign up ask them to limit you right away and send them EVERYTHING they need like Passport, driving licence and utility bills.

2. If you intent to use the account for business then tell them in advance so they can ask for documentation early. Once you hit $5k they normally limit you anyway until they get the info

3. Do not use any of the same details of your friends, family etc as they will attach you to the account and should they default you will end up getting shafted.

4. Read all the T&C as in reality when you sign up with them your money is NOT safe.

I also know from talking with an ex Paypal marketing guy that they once introduced better sign up protection but conversions went down so they opened it up again so any Muppet can create an account in seconds and abuse the system.

I know of a number of UK based businesses that have went bust due to paypal including one guy who was selling memory card sand had a huge T/O. PP put his account under review and by the time they finished all the paperwork he was left unable to pay creditors on time and they withdrew his invoice facility resulting in him going bust.

I would bin Paypal all together if I could but there's so many people using it that it means lost revenue if you don't use it.
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Old 05-08-2008, 10:52 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by SeoReborn View Post
Wonder if there are GOOD paypal alternatives...
So far I have no complaints about Xoom.com
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Old 05-08-2008, 03:01 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maverick View Post
I have used Paypal for almost 9 years and in that time my account has been locked so many times I have lost count. Paypal have such a monopoly that they can treat people however they like and use there massive cash reserves to self regulate in Europe.

My worst dispute was for almost $20k when they locked my account as my GF was scammed on Ebay selling an autograph. She kept the payment/send receipt for almost 3 weeks then she got a chargeback from Paypal which she disputed as the buyer told her on the phone it was perfect.

As her account was pretty new they locked it right away and then in about 3 hours my account was locked as i was associated due to having the same landline phone number. I called them up and they told me that it was a safety measure so my GF could not use my account to sell on Ebay and once her account was live again so would mine.

After a couple of days I gave up with paypal uk (or ierland) and spent $600 calling the US trying to get them to escalate it to an executive. After days of fighting I got a result when it went to a special department who requested i send in copies of invoices etc to prove the money was mine. It took about 14 days to reopen the accounts which is pathetic when people use it for business.

Things I learned

1. When you sign up ask them to limit you right away and send them EVERYTHING they need like Passport, driving licence and utility bills.

2. If you intent to use the account for business then tell them in advance so they can ask for documentation early. Once you hit $5k they normally limit you anyway until they get the info

3. Do not use any of the same details of your friends, family etc as they will attach you to the account and should they default you will end up getting shafted.

4. Read all the T&C as in reality when you sign up with them your money is NOT safe.

I also know from talking with an ex Paypal marketing guy that they once introduced better sign up protection but conversions went down so they opened it up again so any Muppet can create an account in seconds and abuse the system.

I know of a number of UK based businesses that have went bust due to paypal including one guy who was selling memory card sand had a huge T/O. PP put his account under review and by the time they finished all the paperwork he was left unable to pay creditors on time and they withdrew his invoice facility resulting in him going bust.

I would bin Paypal all together if I could but there's so many people using it that it means lost revenue if you don't use it.
great info, thanks

Spent 3hrs on the phone with PayPal this morning and only certain parts of the issue is resolved. Still out $1.8k...
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Old 05-11-2008, 12:42 AM   #16
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I use paypal to sell intangible digital products. I set up a system with paypal IPN where the user is automatically sent the items when the payment goes through. Now, the thing I hate about paypal is that when users decide they want to leave the website they often go back and issue chargebacks/disputes on their past purchases. Paypal always rules in their favor which is complete BS as the user got what they paid for and only wants their money back because they are done with my website. Paypal has no respect for digital products. If I had been sending tangible items i'm sure that wouldn't happen.

So we're not in the same boat, but I feel your pain about paypal. Maybe you should look into google checkout or something.
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Old 05-11-2008, 06:02 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fcreature View Post
I use paypal to sell intangible digital products. I set up a system with paypal IPN where the user is automatically sent the items when the payment goes through. Now, the thing I hate about paypal is that when users decide they want to leave the website they often go back and issue chargebacks/disputes on their past purchases. Paypal always rules in their favor which is complete BS as the user got what they paid for and only wants their money back because they are done with my website. Paypal has no respect for digital products. If I had been sending tangible items i'm sure that wouldn't happen.

So we're not in the same boat, but I feel your pain about paypal. Maybe you should look into google checkout or something.
This is not entirely true most people think this but PayPal has told me that people buying intangable items online using PayPal are not covered for un-delivered products, I've had this happen lots in the past with assholes who get the product then take out a dispute against you to get there money back.

What you need to do is track everything, the payment amount, payment date, there IP address, once they click the download link re-log there IP address to know that they did download the product, save everything you can from PayPal.

Then when this happens take all that information and present it to paypal saying ok I sell intangible goods and this is what I do to proove that this person really did download and recieve the item they paid for then show them all the info and explain to them how it goes.

Most of the time PayPal will then side with you because the buyer is like umm what and doesn't know how to respond with all the evidence against them so PayPal sides with you.

If it gets too out of hand and its a smaller amount then save yourself the time and give them a re-fund.

But if this is something that is happening to you lots then try out this method.
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Old 05-11-2008, 08:12 AM   #18
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It's been known for years that Paypal is the worst payment processor. I would recommend MoneyBookers.
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Old 05-11-2008, 09:24 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emp View Post
Wow... that was a rant. You don't even have time or patience for grammar or spelling or making sense...

::emp::

Haha, was thinking the saaaame thing!


PAYPAL DESTORY MY ENGLISH! ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO US! I SALE CHEAP ICQ!
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Old 05-18-2008, 12:34 PM   #20
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I decided to use PayPal since it was easy to integrate with my design. Fucking with those shopping carts like ZenCart or osCommerce was giving me migraines. Maybe I'll code an Authorize.net backend someday (not likely until they screw me too).
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Old 06-12-2008, 04:09 AM   #21
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I have so may times, people chargeback for no reason and I coudnt do anything..they have no arbitration system..
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Old 06-12-2008, 04:33 AM   #22
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I have so may times, people chargeback for no reason and I coudnt do anything..they have no arbitration system..
Actually they do its just hidden really well.....I barley ever loose a claim against me.
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Old 06-12-2008, 05:16 AM   #23
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I experience it too last year and i was like you, I was disappointed at that time.

I dont know why they're that thing...You know what I did? I created another account but when i recieve payments i transfer it to my bank account.
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Old 06-12-2008, 01:21 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aequitas View Post
This is not entirely true most people think this but PayPal has told me that people buying intangable items online using PayPal are not covered for un-delivered products, I've had this happen lots in the past with assholes who get the product then take out a dispute against you to get there money back.

What you need to do is track everything, the payment amount, payment date, there IP address, once they click the download link re-log there IP address to know that they did download the product, save everything you can from PayPal.

Then when this happens take all that information and present it to paypal saying ok I sell intangible goods and this is what I do to proove that this person really did download and recieve the item they paid for then show them all the info and explain to them how it goes.

Most of the time PayPal will then side with you because the buyer is like umm what and doesn't know how to respond with all the evidence against them so PayPal sides with you.

If it gets too out of hand and its a smaller amount then save yourself the time and give them a re-fund.

But if this is something that is happening to you lots then try out this method.
Thanks for the advice. I'll try to track more info and see if that helps.
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Old 06-12-2008, 02:26 PM   #25
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Just an update...

PayPal closed my account and I have to wait 180 days to get my $1.8k back but...

2 of the unhappier buyers who lost their PayPal claim against me decided to chargeback and PayPal allowed them even after I won the original claim...

Fuck eBay and PayPal... Fucking 4yr+ PayPal account and 6yr eBay account gone over some bullshit...
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Old 06-12-2008, 09:49 PM   #26
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PayPal is very good as a payment aggregator i.e. a one-stop-shop for paying for your internet doo-dads.

BUT, if you want to take payments with it, I dunno, sign up as a different entity, like a company, and only access the site with a different browser and IP number, like with a dial-up account, always.

There's a reason a site like paypalsucks.com exists, and it's mostly gripes by merchants, not customers.
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Old 06-12-2008, 10:24 PM   #27
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After reading this post I have taken out a large sum of money from a checking account that is linked to paypal. I have moved this amount to a new checking account not linked to paypal. Is this wise? Or am I just being paranoid ?
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Old 06-13-2008, 12:17 AM   #28
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Vent

Well we now have credit card and paypal is cleared but those credit cards charge 2.3% - 4.5% + monthly cost ...

These days people still want paypal and that is why I have to keep them .

We get more paypal payment over the C.C ...


On taking the money out into a different account.
Well not sure how you use paypal but if a dispute happens and your account is negitive your bank account will still be asked for funds...


As for those talking about my baddd spelllllling are you my old english teacher trying to grade my english ??
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Old 06-13-2008, 07:30 PM   #29
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If you must link PayPal to a bank account, link it to a secondary one, not your main one. I understand they can 'dip in' to your bank account. Too bad for you if money is tight when they do.

From memory: PayPal had a big struggle against fraudsters. It got quite used to closing merchant's accounts and keeping their money. It's like a bank, but less regulated; they've got your money and it's up to you to prove your sales are legitimate, for you to get it back.
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Old 06-29-2008, 09:34 PM   #30
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Sogay

I have read a lot about this website, merchantinc, that offers a paypal alternative but I heard that they charge a lot of money for the service when Paypal is free. Yet, paypal seems to be able to do whatever they want with YOUR money. Somehow that's not fair either. Oh well, I guess you just can't win either way.
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Old 06-30-2008, 12:25 AM   #31
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Google checkout is an alternative - but to my knowledge does not support subscriptions yet. This is one of it's major shortcommings. It is also a bit less mature as a product.

But PayPal has been very slow to evolve since its initial success - so it will be good if Google gives them a run for their money. Ideally I'd like to see a 3rd competitor in the space.

After that you have to roll your own solution with a payment gateway and internet mercant account. Doable - but complicated.
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Old 07-06-2008, 11:33 PM   #32
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Before you put your entire business in the hands of one company, did you ever do a web search for complaints about the company? I don't see how one could use paypal and never even hear about those stories.
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Old 07-07-2008, 11:42 AM   #33
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Paypal are fukin assholes, they ban accounts and give you automated responses which really pisses me off.
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Old 07-25-2008, 02:10 PM   #34
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paypal sucks big time..i've moved to google checkout..its far better..though thrz an initial investment..still i like it..n the best part is i can withdraw money from anywhr with the payoneer debit mastercard..
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Old 07-25-2008, 02:14 PM   #35
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^ I have so many reservations about Payoneer. The fees are, IMO, a bit exorbitant.
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Old 07-27-2008, 04:54 AM   #36
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I have got great reviews about the Payoneer card. It sounds great. The fees are very reasonable compared to other services.
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Old 08-14-2008, 03:37 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tedel View Post
So far I have no complaints about Xoom.com
Sound advice!

for anyone unfamiliar with XOOM.COM

it is like a western union... for paypal. Only thing that may make you uncomfortable is the fact you must provide all your personal info to receive payment... but really not much beyond what one could see on paypal.

Google checkout has been recommended as a alternative, I personally would not recommend Gcheckout, they closed my account as soon as I emailed them for help. I noticed this everytime I would try to ask gcheckout for help via email, they would automatically cause a problem for me...

If paypal suspends your account, you should always have another option open. You can refund your customers through paypal even when account is limited, and ask them to resend payments through another processor.
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Old 08-16-2008, 05:12 PM   #38
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I've heard countless paypal horror stories. I wish you the best.
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Old 08-25-2008, 12:48 AM   #39
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Pa yp al = Epic Fail

I have been burned, not for much only fifty or sixty bucks.. But I learned to NEVER NEVER NEVER Use paypal for selling and ONLY ON OCCASSION for payment. My CC Provider (My Sig as a matter of fact) are VISA/MC backs up purchases and I can do a Charge back if I need to.

Pa yp al has a history of burned and tortured clients going back 5+ Yrs..

-Mus
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Old 08-29-2008, 01:17 PM   #40
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i don't ever have any problems with paypal, call them and be super nice - keep track of all your sales, Tracking numbers will always help you win. if its a digital product, save sales emails and server logs showing that they did download the product. IP address to paypal is the same as a tracking number to them.
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Old 08-30-2008, 05:52 PM   #41
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Paypal is having many issues now a days.Thanks God i don't use paypal
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Old 09-07-2008, 05:24 AM   #42
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Maybe next time you create multiple paypal accounts.
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Old 09-07-2008, 05:31 AM   #43
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Well,

I had issues with Paypal allot in the past years. So I have learned and created a backup model for any case of receiving payment or paying out my advertisers. To bad to see other people got hurt. There is a huge amount of internet users who roll the anti-paypal campaign.
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Old 09-19-2008, 11:53 AM   #44
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The solution is simple:

Send all the monies to your friend, and have him cash it out for you.

Or, alternatively:

Have a friend open a pay pal account for you, pay him like $150 or something for the trouble and you use it.

(obviously it has to be a close trusting friend...)
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Old 09-19-2008, 01:34 PM   #45
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Running a business through paypal definetly puts your business at risk. Get a traditional merchant account.
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Old 09-20-2008, 02:08 AM   #46
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I had a friend who lost $14,000 with PayPal in 2003. They locked him out for 6 months and never paid him his money for long after releasing his account. Then had another friend from Canada who lost $800 to them.

Last year my account was locked because I received multiple payments from associatedcontent.com for my articles. I was furious and thought I had lost the money I had in there (about $400). What I did was -

Emailed a friend of mine who had paid me around $400+ and told him to send me some extra money to equal what he had then sent me.

Next, I searched for the old transaction that he had sent me and I clicked the refund button. Voila!, the money went into his account, which he later sent through Xoom.com.

After the money was cleared from my account, I sent abusive emails to them, one after the other and took all my frustration out. Believe me guys, in about 4 weeks, my account was released and they apologized to me. Yes, I sent them my ID and address proof to avoid any future hassles.

That's my story.
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Old 09-22-2008, 08:35 PM   #47
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I hear your pain. Paypal in all their infinate dumb fuck stupid low paid desk jockey irish Mcfuckers, changed the status of my account RANDOMLY and stopped a payment to my supplier.

This means after I went to bed at 5:30 am after a night of work, I get a call from a supplier at 7am wondering why I stopped the payment and I have to start my day practically begging paypal and my suppliers after like an hours sleep.

A big thank you paypal

Pricks
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Old 09-23-2008, 12:32 AM   #48
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Paypal is risky nowadays especially for traders. Just want to know if this is also the same case with Google Checkout
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Old 10-08-2008, 09:23 PM   #49
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Traditional merchant accounts are the way to go. I keep telling people that and they keep resisting for some reason. I used to avoid Authorize.net but I have been setting more and more people up with them lately and they have been doing a much better job these days.

Plus they gave me a good buy rate. So I will keep making people happy and keep sending them accounts!
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Old 10-11-2008, 03:31 PM   #50
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I was processing well over $100,000/year in incoming transactions through my PayPal account when I was under 18. Any time my account was flagged for some reason or my debit card temporarily frozen (due to large transactions, that were made EVERY month on the same day to the same vendor... smart, right?), it was very easy to unlock the account again. Not sure how it is now, but I was able to get the business account phone reps to resolve my issues extremely quickly, and I never had to send in (and forge the age on) any verification of my information.

The real way to do it is to get your own merchant account, though. Your account won't be frozen due to chargebacks, and you'll actually be able to dispute the chargeback directly with the credit card companies or your merchant bank, and not have to go through an intermediary. You'll also be able to put in some good fraud fighting measures (depending on what product you use, if any) that can save a lot of aggrevation.

Google checkout is a pretty good system, but it's not as good as having a real merchant account. It's always a good backup, though.
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