ricdes

you sir, have just restored some of my belief in you. well written post. most atheists go by the principle of live and let live. "you believe in god?" "good for you, I don't. but who cares".

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ShlomiKalfa

well its is very interesting article and there are many arguments about it.
But i personally do thinks god exists i choose not to believe though.
at least not in all the Bible ways, dont do that dont do that why because its written in the book.

i mean his theory might be right but there should be too many coincidence for it to work.

clyde

This.

People are not making fun of it just for the sake of making fun of it.

People are questioning your logic.

If Christianity or Islam is taught in school to children who don't know any better, why isn't Thore or Zeuse being taught in school? Why are parents imposing their belief on children telling them they'll go to hell day in day out unless they accept Jesus Christ as their personal lord and savior? Why? Why spend tax-payer's money on something as redundant and backward as this?

Why are you praying to a god that existence is as likely as the Flying Spaghetti Monster?

p/s: Not only do we not believe in a God, we disproved the idea of God pushed by organized religion. The earth is older than 5000 years (you fuckers didn't know this before scientists researched carbon-dating, or the discovery of dinosaur bones). Evolution.

Organized religions = fraud. Got it?

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clyde

What coincidences are you talking about?

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SUP3RNOVA

Why is it insulting? Because it's used as an insult, that's why. Whereas I'm open to talking about the possibility of a mystical and unexplainable force that may have been involved and/or responsible for the grand design of the universe(s) and things we cannot comprehend (which makes them difficult and pointless to debate), you're using the metaphor of something utterly ridiculous as an insult to my intelligence and what I believe in. It's childish.

How much common sense do you lack to ask why that would be insulting?

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SUP3RNOVA

You didn't read my post and therefore have no point in being in this conversation. BlueJams post was in direct reference to mine.

To humor you, I pray to God because it's helped me and millions of people with a various number of things. From getting through difficult times to giving me the ability to explore my thoughts further and come to realizations (much like meditation), I have seen prayers that are answered.

Sure his existence is as likely as a Flying Spaghetti Monster, but it's plain silly to believe that flying spaghetti created the universe. It's much more reasonable and logical to believe that there are forces involved in the universe that we can't explain or understand. Science is direct proof of this, we are constantly uncovering more and more about physics and the universe that we didn't think or know was possible. From realizing that the world isn't flat to realizing that we can synthetically create life and organisms by injecting DNA into cells. Dark matter, string theory, we're starting to put names on the fundamentals of the universe but are clueless when it comes down to what caused everything.

But you wouldn't understand that because you, like many of the other atheists here, seem bitter ("you fuckers").

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clyde

Science and "beliefs" aren't exactly interchangeable.

People don't believe in Bernoulli's theorem. They understand it.
Believing in it won't exactly do anything.

We're not exactly clueless btw, there have been a few theories on how we(the universe) have come about and the one perpetuated by the "holy" books have been the least likely to have happened. In my opinion.

p/s: I guess not everybody can afford a shrink, going to the confession box seems to be more economical in these difficult times.

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clyde

Utterly ridiculous? Now that's insulting. I beg mother spaghetti for his noddley forgiveness and may she bless your soul.

(get it? it goes both ways)

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BluuueJammm

Well you see the thing is Thore, Zeuse, allah etc etc all seem just about as ridiculous as the FSM to me and many others, that's the point of it, they're all equally likely. You think the FSM is 'utterly ridiculous', do you think the same of the other 'gods'?

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SUP3RNOVA

Both of you clearly didn't read my post and have any clue what I actually believe in and am arguing.

Yes, I think it is utterly ridiculous that a child born in a third world country with no chance to even grasp religion or God is damned to burn in hell for eternity.

No, I don't get it. I'm arguing that it's logical to believe in unexplainable forces that mankind literally cannot comprehend. Afterlife is something that we cannot experience until after our physical life. The only argument for it would be people that have near death experiences - which are extremely interesting and all evidence they provide would be contrary to what you believe in. We cannot fully comprehend something metaphysical in a completely physical world.

You're arguing that flying spaghetti pooped out planets and is responsible for the universe. It's clearly being used as an insult, where the beliefs I'm proposing are not insulting at all.

I never said the earth is 5,000 years old. I never said Moses parted a sea and people walked through it. I never said God turned people into pillars of salt. Get your facts straight when you want to argue with me about my beliefs.

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BluuueJammm

I did read them, I was explaining why the FSM was legitimately used while you were saying it was just used as an insult.

Just wow, but that's a whole other argument for another thread.

I'm not arguing that at all, in fact it's the opposite of what I think, I'm arguing that it's as likely and possible as all other gods are.

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zimok

logical, seriously?

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clyde

It's ridiculous in general for anybody to have to believe in anything in order to NOT go to hell. Religions that promote this comprise of fear-mongering zealots full of hypocrisy and any faith that is a result of this is a result of fear not truth.

It's as stupid as going to a starving child in Africa telling him "Ask God for food and see what happens".

It's only insulting if you don't believe in it. Everybody have their own personal belief, but christianity(for example) in general has made a lot of people unhappy.

Modern day problems:
Use of Condoms.
Gays.
Abortions.

Before this:
killing of innocent women for "witchcraft".
the crusades.
antisemitism.
book burning, destroying the mayan culture.

but don't even let me get started with Islam, this religion has a much bigger problem than the rest. SMH

Sorry, was talking about certain churches of Christianity I guess. Still, my point was made. There's no way Science will come to "actually guys, god made everything, we were wrong" but there's nothing absolute in Science so i'll say 99.99999% chance.

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SUP3RNOVA

lol, it's not being legitimately used. It's being used as an insult. As said before we are dealing with forces that we have zero knowledge and comprehension on, and that's why it's difficult to argue. You can comprehend what a spaghetti monster would look like and could agree that it is stupid to believe that spaghetti (a food) created the universe.



I didn't confirm nor deny any validity in NDEs, but they are interesting nonetheless. Revealing? Not really as again there's no proof either way.



Right, but arguing the Flying Spaghetti Monster Theory to someone religious is insulting because of that childish comparison. If there are external and nonphysical forces out there (which neither you or I can prove or disprove), we both can be pretty certain it's not flying spaghetti and meatballs.

Yes. Practical given today's discoveries and what we think we know? No. But that's why it's a faith based belief. Humans are a few thousand years old, compare that to what we think the age of the universe is. It is beyond a scale we can comprehend. How can we expect to know the origins of everything and how big the universe is (and how many there are) when we haven't even left our own solar system, a pin prick in itself.

Would you read my first post before you make statements like these? I have already brought up organized religion and my thoughts on the fear harboring and hypocrisy it's filled with. You're directly speaking to me about something I've already said and agree with.


I seriously have spent way too much time on WF this morning and need to get back to work, lol.

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Rusky

Hey Clyde.
Lets talk about Abortion.

You dont have to be a Christian to see whats wrong with the picture below right.
Killing of Babies is wrong - but not for an atheist because were all just meat bags without a soul. Thats why eugenics is okay, and abortion actually is somewhat related to that. Its purpose is to control the birthrates of poor and the uneducated class, therefore helping evolve a newer better man. I wonder how many million babies were slaughtered in the past 50 years.


The founder of Planned Parenthood - Margaret Sanger.
From Wikipedia - "Sanger was a proponent of negative eugenics, a social philosophy which claims that human hereditary traits can be improved through social intervention. Sanger's eugenic policies ran to an exclusionary immigration policy, free access to birth control methods and full family-planning autonomy for the able-minded, and compulsory segregation or sterilization for the profoundly retarded."

Wow atheists responsible for millions of dead babies, and social intervention experiments. Yet the atheists will once again talk about the 1000 year old crusades.

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turbolapp

Sure. As certain as we can be that it's not your god either.

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-God-

You're both getting the point and completely missing it in equal measure.

FSM is used to show how stupid religion is. You say FSM is childish and stupid, but it is as likely as god, or allah, or vishnu, or thor, or zeus or...

The point is that most, on here at least, only believe in the christian god, yet choose not to believe in a 1000 others because "they're stupid".

The reality is, someone who believes only in "their god", is an atheist in the eyes of every religion that doesn't recognise that god. Every atheist simply believes in one less god than you.

What happens when you die if it's the wrong god you've supported all these years? I mean it really is like rolling a 1000 sided dice to see what god you support really isn't it? In many ways the religious view dictates that the vast majority of the world are going to burn in hell.

Believing in the FSM is my choice. May your soul rest in pasta.

subigo

Relgious debate on WF? This changes everything I thought I knew about the world. You've opened my eyes and enlightened me to a new beginning. I thank you all for such inspiring words.

RABBLE.

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clyde

LMAO at you playing god.

I didn't say it was right or wrong, I only said that Christianity made a lot of people unhappy which is true. If I had to choose, given the circumstances, I would evaluate every course of action, and consequences.

Is masturbation = murder to you? Why, cuz god said so?

It's one of those complicated issues where saying "My god said this so you must obey" is hypocritical at best.

Fact of the matter is, the Crusades was in the name of Jesus and it was pretty much massacre. (FSM bless their soul)

Also, there's no atheist indoctrination, we're responsible for our own individual action. Don't equate nazism to atheism please. Educate yourself.

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SUP3RNOVA

Cool, so you've read my posts. Any response to what I posted in reply to your Christianity/Islam comparison?

It sounds like you didn't read my long post either. I support a God that is more of an idea of something I cannot comprehend, but believe to be there. I believe that through self-reflection and consistent work into building myself into a better person I will have set myself up as good as I can for what's to come after life in the physical world, if it exists.

I'm extremely open to the fact that we may die and just become dirt and recycled by the Earth, that is certainly possible. There's just a part of me that believes there's more to existence than just being born, and then dying.

There are a million possibilities and not one of them can be ruled exclusively in or out. It's possible that there is an afterlife and what you believe right now will have zero impact on that. You could rape and murder and do bad things your entire life and wind up in the same place as everyone else. I just don't believe a universe so beautifully structured could work that way. Respect the unknown.

I can respect and even agree with the viewpoints of atheists and can only hope for their sake that I'm not right in my beliefs.

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Rusky

Talk about educating yourself. Margaret Sanger was American, and eugenics didnt originate from nazis but from darwinists.

Learn my atheist friend. Life is not as simple as they say it is.


Hey look its federally funded.

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turbolapp

Bingo! So what are the chances you've got the right idea of a god and an afterlife? A million to one?

What are the chances you will disregard this statistical fact because you're terrified of the unknown? I'd say 100%, but I would be delighted if you would prove me wrong on that .

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SUP3RNOVA

Once again, any response to my comments on your comparison to Christianity and Islam? Or are you going to continue to dodge the issue entirely? Don't say something if you can't back it up.

Now in regards what you just said (because I actually respond to arguments made against me), you're mixing up what I was saying. There are a million different possibilities of what an afterlife could be like.

The odds you just mentioned are impossible to calculate, it is not a statistical fact that the chances of there being an afterlife (and along with that a God) are 1,000,000 to 1. The only certain statistic we can measure has 2 options :

1) There is no afterlife.
2) There is an afterlife.

Going by that, there is a 1 in 2 chance there is an afterlife, right? No, because it's still an impossible statistic to calculate just like the one you brought up.

Branching out from those 2 choices are where my 'million possibilities' came from. From our first option there are no other possibilities, there is no afterlife and you die and become what you were before you were born: nothing. It's the second choice that yields a million different possibilities behind it and that's what I was talking about.

I'm certainly not terrified of the unknown (as I've stated myself this is what organized religion uses as an anchor), but I am open to the possibility that the unknown is something that I can't possibly imagine right now. It's a scary thing because of the fact that it's unknown, but I understand that it's not in my control at all.

Trust me, I really wouldn't mind if there were no afterlife and once I die, I'm dead. Because at that point everything is blank and erased anyways, no pain, no joy, no suffering, nothing. I just don't believe it's that simple.

What's the end result of this an how does it impact my physical life? There's a lot more self-reflection through prayer, and a lot of focus on being a morally good person and constantly trying to improve myself. It's not such a bad thing.

My problem with atheists (aside from the fact that from personal experience they seem like more bitter people and I wouldn't want to be them) is the "know it all" attitude. Believing in no god and no afterlife is saying you know for certain that nothing lies beyond death. You don't know that because you haven't experienced death. You don't know if there are metaphysical forces we can't see or comprehend, because you live in a physical world that makes physical discoveries about physical facts.

Being more open-minded about things can really change the type of person you are and in the least, help you with your physical life here and now.

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turbolapp

This comparison you keep talking about, you're going to have to link to it cause this thread is too long and ranting for me to bother to read every post. But you kind of lose me at "comparison" because they're both equally irrelevant to me. It's only when people start going to down the slippery slope of saying one religion is better, or more peaceful, or less hate indoctrinated that I start to get really annoyed. Religion by very nature is indoctrinated antiquated dogma set up by ancient politics and government ruled by violence, fear and greed regardless of whether you subscribe to Teamwhitey or Teambrownies.

In reference to the rest of your post the "million" I was referring to was your idea of the afterlife. Not actual afterlife it's self. People set up rules and dogma based on this, and it's preposterous, as it's a mathematical impossibility that anyone could ever know about the afterlife, much less set up entire infrastructures based upon it.

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SUP3RNOVA

Here :

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SUP3RNOVA

^^And by "major problem in the world" I mean violence and death on a massive scale.

Yes, we all know every religion breeds it's own problems, but to say Islam is the same as Christianity is false. Knocking on your door and annoying you is one thing, blowing you up is another. This is a very clear difference between Christianity and Islam, and if you have to be worried more about 1 religion, it is Islam.

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xentech

People still believe in God? lol

turbolapp

Violence and death on a massive scale like invading countries and killing thousands? Or dropping atomic bombs? These are works of a christian nation, in the name of patriotism, which as I've said before is the most dangerous relgion of all.

Listen, I'm not going to tit for tat you, Like I said it's a slippery slope you can't claim one religion is better than another, because it's a religion.

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Uptime

"The Pew Research Centre recently surveyed Americans on their religious knowledge – and for a country where religion
is so prominent, the results were surprising. Self-described atheists and agnostics out-performed every other group, . . . . ."

After reading through your posts you calling other people bitter makes up in irony what you lack in creditability.

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SUP3RNOVA

When was an atomic bomb dropped in the name of the Christian God? You are twisting facts on an extreme level.

Tying patriotism and Christianity together is plain stupid. The USA was built on many Christian moral values, NONE of them dealing with waging war or killing.

Ok, and this relates to the Christianity/Islam comparison...how?

Because you can't. You didn't address my response at all.

That is an extremely biased opinion based on no factual evidence, therefore it does absolutely nothing to strengthen your argument. You're also changing the subject, I never claimed Christianity was better than Islam (because that would be an opinion). I said to compare them on the same level or look at them as "equal" or "equally dangerous" is factually false. Why? As I stated before, the Bible does not preach jihad and since the times of earlier less civilized nations, Christianity has reformed and it's message is much different from Islam's.

I'd like you to find one person here who agrees with you and what you just said, maybe they'll be able to debate this better.

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SUP3RNOVA

And...that link has nothing to do with what I was saying. It's completely out of reference. I wasn't referring to "know it all" in terms of understanding different organized religions. Nice try? ...not really



How am I supposed to respect your argument when that sentence

a) doesn't make sense...as in it literally makes no sense
b) uses the word 'creditability', which isn't a word

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Uptime

^^ Dude your sounding pretty bitter there.

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wolfegod

^^^ This ^^^







thesporedepot.com

conv3rsion

honestly guys, i think uber has come in here pretty reasonable and his posts are fairly level headed. Ok he thinks the FSM is an insult, I could see how someone could think that, even though I don't.

Compare his posts to rusky believing that atheists / 'darwinists' (the fuck is a darwinist btw) believing that evolution says that we should kill people, especially the weak. also nazism. Thats some glen "take everything to the perverted extreme" beck shit right there.

evolution is not an ideology, it is a very well supported scientific explanation for the diversity of life we observe on our planet. I do not care who in your peer group has demonized it, they are not a biologist, they do not spend their life studying life.

-----

FYI rusky, i give two shits about what some planned parenthood director says. She does not speak for me. And agreeing that evolution and natural selection exist and are the cause of the diversity we see in the world DOES NOT MEAN that you want to kill the sick and the weak. That's like saying because some animals take more than one mate, we should all be fucking everyone all the time.

Wait, actually....

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Norwood

Peculiar how the only people I've ever seen who say the atheist position is that life is meaningless, and that we're all just biological machines with no purpose, are the people who are not atheists. Speak for yourself. Except Rusky, please just don't speak at all.

tangy

Call me when we can make use of the one power, the force, or whatever the fuck else we're calling it now.

Can't see how humanity is in any way near to fully understanding the laws governing the universe.

Incantation

Sorry to bring this thread up again. Since I made the opening post, over the past few weeks there has been a three part series from Hawking on Channel4 (I think it was shown on Discovery a few months back). The first episode was on Aliens, the second was on Time Travel and the final one shown on Saturday was the main show on the Universe. I missed it, but have been watching it now on 4OD and it is definitely worth watching. It is on 4OD for another 4 days if anyone wants to watch it (may have to go on a UK proxy).

Here is the link for it... Stephen Hawking's Universe - 4oD - Channel 4

CrownDemon

Indeed, I think..and those are what Moslem faced back hun'rerd years ago.
or I might add, Atheism. For nonbelievers of Gods Existence,

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clyde

How do you think we flew rockets to the moon?

Blind-faith and 24/7 of prayers?

Oh god.. please stop..

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CrownDemon

Screw this, to bottom instead!

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CrownDemon

Yes, did you call me?

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ii silver ii

BBC News - 'Goldilocks planet just right for life'

More stars in the universe than grains of sand on our planet ... imagine how many other bullshit religions are out there.

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ly2 from WF

Pretty sure we didn't do any of that in the name of religion. We did it in the name of greed and patriotism. To say otherwise is bullshit, but I'm pretty sure you know that already.

We kill for greed, islam kills for religion. Not saying being greedy or power hungry is a good thing, but don't get it twisted with religion.

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clyde

but sir, religion IS greed. lol

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tryan

OOT... so who we are???

Moxie

WE ARE THE WORLD
WE ARE THE CHILDREN
WE ARE THE ONES WHO GO WATCH THIS NOW

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xentech

Wait, Rusky doesn't believe in evolution?

I now think he is even more stupid than I already did.