geekcognito

Gunman kills 30 on Virginia Tech campus - Yahoo! News

I admit it. I hate crazy people. If someone has the real need to go out shooting a bunch of people, why do they always go to the schools? Why take it out on a bunch of innocent kids and young adults? It just doesn't make sense.

If they have to go kill a bunch of people, why not just obtain access to a prison's death row and do everyone a favor?

Improbable, I know. But I just had to vent.

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ltn1dr

Yeah, I live in VA, so I think some of my friends are a bit worried....

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kaveman

YouTube - Virginia Tech School Shooting Video

Rick

my freind is there....

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trigatch4

I knew there would be people cashing in to register virginiatechshootings.com and other domains like it.... but I just didn't have the heart. Exploiting Anna Nicole Overdose is one thing but for real... gives me the shivers thinking about making money off those deaths.

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Juicify

I'm sorry, don't check the buy and sell forum
EDIT: damn you was too fast

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LazyHippy

Bad shit...

Most peeps here are in the States - what do you guys thing of the gun control issue?

It's kinda hard for me to understand the right to bear arms business, not many people have guns legally in the UK and after Dunblaine they tightened control even more - though shootings have increased since then.

Bet the issue of gun control will get a lot of press again, Michael Moore will be milking it, "I told you so" etc... Charlton Heston will be saying it's got nothing to do with people having guns...

Some opportunities there....

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trigatch4

Without the right to bear arms, criminals (who will get guns either way) will have much less to worry about when committing crimes. It would make their job easier. War on guns would go the way of war on drugs... absolutely nowhere.

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geekcognito

I'll bet that Michael Moore will get back on his soapbox. And Nancy Pelosi was going to make it a very hot issue in the months to come anyway. This will undoubtedly give her much more support.

Gun control is a funky issue. If you look at the stats, there are many, many more gun-related deaths in US states with tighter gun control laws. I won't say that this is a direct correlation but it's something that should be considered.

I'm no NRA freak. I'm not even a member. But I do own several weapons and I am infinitely responsible with them. I have a CWP (concealed weapons permit) but I don't utilize it to carry a weapon into public places unless it's the gun range. I do keep a gun in the truck, though. And it is loaded. Legally.

I feel that I'm a responsible gun owner and that I have enough experience with weapons to warrant my possession of them. If eight years of service in the military, four of which being military police isn't enough then I don't know what is.

So that begs the question: would any American realistically say that I shouldn't be allowed to possess a weapon? I'd love to hear a compelling argument against it.

But to step outside of my shoes for a moment and to look at the issue objectively, it is rather disturbing that almost any dickhead can walk into a Wal-Mart and buy a 12 gauge shotgun (24 hours in some locations!) with nothing more than an ID. Hell, I've done it a few times.

I also don't agree with mercenary justice. Meaning that I don't think that any redneck with a gun should just arbitrarily whip it out and start shooting at bad guys at the first sign of a situation at their local convenience store. But how often do you hear of this? Next to none.

If a criminal wants a gun, he will get it. Typically through ILLEGAL means. Prohibiting guns would only mean another, more deadly alcohol prohibition here in America. Tighter legislation isn't the answer. A more pronounced justice system with stiffer penalties is a partial answer. For the whole answer, you will have to ask someone a whole lot smarter than me. And I don't mean a politician, a liberal-biased academic, or a gun industry lobbyist.

But it'll be a cold, cold day when law-abiding good ol' country boys give up their guns.


Edit: a little redneck humor:

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LazyHippy

Great post - good to here from an intelligent gun owner!

This is interesting, shootings have increased here though control has got tighter. But then many more guns are made each year worldwide than are decommissioned so it's a lot easier to get one illegally. Maybe in countries/states where it's harder to get a gun legally the people that want one get it illegally and so are more likely to use it?

America has a shit load more shootings than other developed countries though, there's got to be some reason for this.

I can see both sides of it - as a peace-loving hippy I'm not too keen on everyone being armed, but I don't argree with any form of prohibition and as our governments increasingly become more like big brother then maybe its the people that don't have guns that'll be fucked?

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pfgannon

I have a family member and a co-worker of mine has a daughter attending Tech. Apparently the rumor around campus is the guy was opening rooms asking for his girlfriend and then opening fire.

Also just heard on the radio that there is a possible second shooter discovered dead.

Both just rumors though, don't take my word for it.

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geekcognito

Yeah, it's a very hairy issue. It's one of those things where there isn't a true "blanket solution." An outright ban would bring about chaos, and very probably more criminals trafficking guns. Not a pretty proposition, if you ask me. But that's what the far left would do, given the chance.

Of course, NRA nuts would have you believe that more armed civilians would mean less crime. I'm sorry, but that doesn't exactly fly either. Ever been around someone shooting a pistol that is untrained and thus nervous around that weapon? It's f'in frightening, to say the least. The prospect of trigger happy dumbasses looking for any and all excuse to draw a weapon in the mall doesn't appeal to me.

Which is why I say that the solution isn't an easy one. But it's one that is almost certainly extremely polarized with extremists on each end, leaving the "common sense" crowd firmly and almost helplessly in the middle.

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GeorgeA

That is way fucked up. Things like that should *just not* happen.

Wtf , you mean in the States you can go in any store with your ID and purchase a gun ? That is so wrong ... I live in the EU , more specifically, in Romania , and here, for someone to obtain a weapons permit it has to first pass a psychological test . If you have *head problems,issues* whatever, you WON'T PASS it . It's not smart to give any idiot would a high degree of aggressiveness and an impulse to kill ... a weapon. Also , the weapons you can buy are considered non-lethal. (No shotguns unless you're a hunter,and you can only keep that in your home, or when you go hunting).Also NO other firearms whatsoever.You can only carry on the street (if you've got your permit that is) handguns that have rubber projectiles/function on gases(dunno it how they're translated in english).No compressed air weapons...

If weapons are to be allowed for self-defense , that means you should carry a weapon that ideally doesn't have any lethal effect over 3-5m.(if it's self-defense,why would you need to sniper the guy out ? ).Get a peper spray,electric zipper , learn some martial arts , get a *small* gun.. whatever... you don't need an AK-47 for self-defense.

Stop giving morons weapons !!

LazyHippy

I think part of the law here is that if you have a licensed gun you have to keep it in secure locked storage.

Is there anything like that in the US? (Different from state to state?) Might help reduce someone using someone else's gun.

Actually just heard on the news, in Virginia you can buy a gun legally without a background check!

Maybe have it like a car licence - you have to prove you can use it safely before you can buy one??

Or go hi-tech - RFID on all bullets? (wouldn't stop this shit though!)

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geekcognito

Laws vary from state to state. I live in the *deep* South, so laws are a little lax here. But incidentally, crimes involving guns don't happen nearly as much. That's CERTAINLY not to say that they don't happen more than I'm comfortable with, however.

I keep a trigger lock on my pistols. It looks a little like this:



There is a four digit combination used to unlock the gun. If an incorrect combination is input more than three times, the lock sounds a high-pitched alarm and the lock cannot be opened, even with the correct code, for a small period of time. I think it's 20 minutes or so. I can't remember right off the top of my head.

It doesn't deter me from getting to my weapon in a timely fashion since I can unlock it and have it dropped from the weapon in about a second. Yeah, I'm a geek that practiced. However, it certainly does deter anyone from accessing the trigger if they don't have the code. Sure, someone could steal it and saw the lock off, but that's not very likely at all with me, as paranoid as I am. They would have to get through my truck's lock, my truck's alarm system (which pages me if it goes off), find the gun, and get into the locked compartment I keep it in. Not a highly likely scenario considering the audible car alarm will be blaring the entire time and my truck will have paged me and I will come running with another gun on me.

I don't have kids, but the majority of weapons that I own are in a safe. Not so much for the risk of someone getting to them and using them but for the possibility of theft. Guns are f'in expensive, man. Ones worth having are, anyway.

But yeah, laws vary from state to state and that Virginia law is probably for shotguns and not pistols. For any kind of handgun, I am 99.99% certain that all states require an FBI background check. This is the same for semi-automatic and automatic rifles. Shotguns and hunting rifles typically only require positive identification. I could be wrong because I only know the laws very well in South Carolina and Georgia.

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geekcognito

Not everyone carries a gun for self-defense. Against humans, anyway. Hunters carry handguns as protection against snakes in tall brush. I carry one for the same reason, even though I don't hunt too much, for when I go camping and hiking.

Shotguns and hunting rifles are obviously used for sport. A hunting rifle is rarely ever used in crime, with one blaring exception that comes to mind which is the case of those two assholes that sniped people at gas pumps back in 2002 or so through a hole in their trunk.

As far as pepper spray, the crap they sell in stores isn't powerful enough to do much more than piss someone off. Especially if their adrenaline is pumping. Don't believe me? We used to get sprayed with that stuff regularly during training. It's garbage and most people that carry it wouldn't have it ready in time anyway.

Stun guns take a minimum of 6 seconds to effectively render a person disabled enough for the victim to flee. That is 6 SOLID seconds of contact. Do you realize what a grown man attacking with a purpose can do to someone not expecting that attack in 6 seconds? It's nearly impossible to hold it on someone's body for that long in a scuffle. Useless as tits on a bull.

Tazers are treated much like handguns in the US so that's not an effective deterrent. Plus, who's going to carry a bulky tazer around? They're twice the size of a small 9mm.

Martial arts...you must be joking. Unless it's a focused "offensive" self-defense such as Krav Maga, martial arts is useless in a real scenario. A black belt in karate will get his ass handed to him by an experienced street fighter any day of the week.

And for your "small gun" argument, they can be just as deadly, if not deadlier than a larger weapon just from being able to conceal it.

But yeah, I wholeheartedly agree with you that everyone should "Stop giving morons weapons!!!" It is the method to doing so that is the hot topic of discussion.

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geekcognito

&^%$ man! I just realized that with all the typing I did in this thread, I could have started a "gun discussion" blog and already had several posts on it.

Argh! Damn WF! Back to work, dammit! Back to work!

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LazyHippy

That lock is a great idea as are the psychological tests in Romania - make them both compulsory and it might sort this shit out!

I doubt many of the real gun nuts would be happy to have their mental state accessed though.

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geekcognito

The act of requiring psychological tests, however appealing it may sound, for access to guns would be countered by opposition as an infringement on citizen's rights under the Second Amendment. Gun company lobbyists would have a field day with that. It's just not reasonable.

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geoffmarcy

I like Chris Rock's theory...let people have guns - but charge 10K for each bullet.

OuchItBurns

Most criminals have prior convictions so they aren't getting guns legally anyway. Psych tests and all the other crap proposed just gives the honest gun owner more hoops to jump through to defend themselves.

Just look at Britain and Australia. They banned guns and murders are up (although now with things like knives, bats, etc.) rapes are up, assaults are up, thefts are up.

Free people can be armed, if you can't be then you're not free.

Guns stop way more crimes than they cause every year.

People just need to use common sense. My pistol is secured in a quick access pistol safe next to my bed. I can get at in seconds but children or bad guys can't access it. Just common sense like that will prevent most accidents as well as following basic gun safety rules.

As far as the state not requiring a background check- the Feds already require it so it's getting done regardless. Some states have another background check done but they've been shown to simply generate more revenue for the government without any real decline in crime. My state requires one and it was just a bunch of paperwork and fees as well as an invasion of privacy.

Look at Vermont- no permits required to carry concealed and some of the lowest crime in the entire US.

If the kids or professors on that campus could carry legally then someone may have stopped the bastard before he killed so many.

Thanks to "gun free school zones" mass murderers can be sure their targets are unarmed...it's a tragedy.

LazyHippy

Looks like there's a lot of different interpretations, or people interpreting it there own way, for there own ends.

The arms manufactures would hate any control - it would mean they'd have to export more to Zimbabwe, Burma, etc. I'm guessing they are finding it hard to sell to Iran and Syria at the moment, though I'm sure some are finding a way, and Israel is still be a big market for them (very kindly paid for by the American taxpayers).

I'm sure the government could soften the blow of domestic gun control by giving them tax breaks for export (to "friendly" regimes of course) - who cares if they end up being used by kids in Sudan. Wouldn't want the big companies to suffer now would we?

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pfgannon

Wait are we talking about the right to own guns or.....



Nobody should be without bear arms.

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GeorgeA

Hunt how much you want , but do it outside town.While you're in town , it should be fucking kept in the care or smth.

About pepper and tazers...well I also didn't think they were a very good solution.

Also,when I was talking about martial arts , I wasn't referring to (sports) judo , aikido (it's usually a joke what they learn), non-contact or semi-contact styles(I think they're called light and medium contact styles in english). Full-contact styles+training on real-life scenarios is the way to go. I'd actually love to do some Krav Maga courses,but unfortunately there are not a lot of people teaching it(none where I live,and only heard of about 3 or 4 people in the whole country that teach others).But ,in life and death matters, a kick in the nuts anyone should be able to do .

Referring to small handguns:I was talking about small non-lethal handguns,those that don't have virtually any effect over 5-6m ,but *can* kill someone at close range (though highly unlikely).If I remember well,the speed of a bullet from one of those weapons does not exceed 250m/s(and the bullets are from a special material).Those are specially designed for self-defense(not for killing),so you can't enter a hall,pull a weapon out of your coat and just kill everyone in sight.If you're lucky you might leave someone without an eye,but that's about it.No penetration,no explosion,nothing like that.

There must be some other methods of self-defense that do not imply fireweapons. (if against other kinds of attacks you may have one chance to defend yourself,you sure as hell can't dodge an incoming bullet).

Anyway,this whole issue won't be solved by banning weapons.People can kill fine without them too. We need better education,proactive psychology counseling , and solutions to people's problems.The use of weapons is just a manifestation of aggressive behavior,and as I said,and I'll repeat it again,banning weapons won't make them any less aggressive,but they may reduce one's ability to harm others(many others).

Also geekcognito , if you put yourself in the position of a parent of one of the young that were killed,how would you feel knowing that any lunatic could kill your son/daughter in a blink of an eye,for no reason at all.

Weapons don't kill , humans do ! (however,they can't kill as much without them). There ... it sounds like a statistic now ... looks like Stalin knew something when he said what he said..

This is a very complex issue,and I am quite poorly informed atm,but this has got my attention, and I really feel that I should at least try to do something about it.It's really sad that these things happen ...

GeorgeA

Ok...your second amendment sucks :|. I'm really starting to dislike some of those laws. The freedom to be shot in the head by some lunatic does not appeal to me at all.

People have the right to arms,to kill,to rape...or else they're not free...Oh wait...somethings wrong there ...

Guns used in what scenarios?(police).What crimes are we talking about they stop 100 thefts compared to 10 deaths they cause ?

Well that's the problem. People that usually to the stuff that happened at Virginia Tech...DON'T HAVE ANY commonsense whatsoever.They're psycho.

Thank you for the correlation,but that does not equal causation. Things are far more complex than that.

And if the bastard couldn't have had a weapon at all,none of this would have happened.

pfgannon

And how do we go about making it impossible for him to get a gun?

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geekcognito

Have you even read my first post in this thread? The very first one? I started this thread because I'm outraged by this tragedy.

Plus, I feel I've done a very good job of looking at the issue as objectively as possible even though I am adamant about my right to own and carry firearms.

Dude, don't argue with me just to argue. We're having a discussion. Everything you've said in your last post other than what I've quoted is almost exactly the arguments I was making in my other posts.

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Karnul

Just a quick thought on a gun control then I gotta do some work...

I see it this way, if MORE people had guns, then crazy ass fuckers like this shooter would get dropped in a hail of gun fire the second they started going nuts.

An armed society is a polite society. More guns is the answer, not less.

The UK's skyhigh violent crime rate should be a big fat testament to STOPPING gun control.

joe

I like how people think that gun control would have prevented this tragedy. It looks like this guy premeditated the whole thing, he could have gotten one regardless of the law. People are still killed by gunfire in cities with gun control, someone who wants carnage isn't going to give a flying fuck about the law.

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illusion

Ah, America and it's problems. What woulda been cool is if a student hit the floor kicked over his desk and pulled out a gun and started shooting up the gunman. Only problem is, aren't students in America checked for guns now a days thanks to 9/11?

Fuck I wish I took that video, the rush woulda payed off when you sell it to the press

joe

You would have to be pretty damn suspicious looking to be checked for weaponry at a university. This shooting is kind of a new thing, most of the school gun problems happen at high schools, not universities. Most inner city high schools have metal detectors and police at the entrances, but colleges don't.

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illusion

Now that is just screwed up, no high school should have freaking police and metal detectors.

illusion

Now that is just screwed up, no high school should have freaking police and metal detectors.

CLKeenan

Thats common place now. Almost all high schools in Chicago have them

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ltn1dr

Yeah my schools low security though, only like 2 cops assigned to it.

Anyways, my brother sent me this link asking me if I thought this guy was one of the killers

wanusmaximus's Xanga Site

I browsed through it, its sort of weird but it seems to fit.

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pfgannon

Look what I found on the second page:
Page Not Found

Check out the destination of the facebook link... phisher

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geekcognito

From that site:

you know those creepy/crazy old men who own enough firearms to facilitate an army? i'm slowly turning into one of them....






Crazy fuck. You always have to wonder about those shitheads that fall utterly in love with their guns. I mean, I like having guns and all, but I don't have freaking tactical assault weapons.

I would have to wonder if that really is the guy. Sure seems to fit.

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illusion

Fuck he's got one sitting there in his book, what a fucking psycho

illusion

It was then that I carried you...



His stats because people think he is the shooter



No freaking wonder

He had a link to that site from his own xanga site, a friend playing a prank? I dunno

DruSam

It's not him, he had a post a little earlier in the day in expressing his condolences for the victims but apparently he took it down because he likes the attention...

It's just a coincidence that he happens to be a young asian male who likes guns and recently broke up with his girlfriend. But yeah, it's not him, this shit has been analyzed to death over at offtopic forums.

geekcognito

Yeah it's not him, but there should be no question as to why people would jump to that conclusion.

Dru, congrats on your 2,000th post.

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DruSam

shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit I missed it! guess you guys have to wait till 3000 posts for a massive thread full of breasts.

lv826nv

OT?

u a og there?

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geekcognito

Yb. O ev noodles.

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DruSam

I go there when I need a lot of opinions on breaking news topics. And to laugh in disgust at all the awful things OT'ers say.

mason

where did you hear that it was him in the first place? everyone is posting his pic even tho he isn't the shooter lmfao... he has a killer GF tho.

joe

nice.

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DruSam

yeah his girl is bangin'. lucky guy.

Jon

She can shoot me anyday..

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Jon

The debate about guns and "how can we prevent this" is complete bullshit guys.

Here's the deal. Crazy people are crazy. If they decide to shoot up a school or bomb a playground, they will do it. For the rest of the population and the ones that end up in a looney bin beforehand it won't happen, but there is, and always will be that ONE who gets by and does something super fucked up. It's our society.

You'll see in the coming days and weeks, the big question will be how can this happen and who can we blame for it?

It's not the video games, it's not the violence on tv, it's not music, it's not the president of the school, it's not the cops who came to the rescue, it's not even the kid's parents. The only one to blame is the psychopath who carried it out and is now dead. That's all.

It's a really shitty situation and not fair at all either, but hey, life is not fair. I know I'm not a very sensitive person when it comes to things like this, but let's face it. Things like this, and things even worse than this happen every fucking day in the world, and yet, life goes on. Look at Darfur.. Over 300k dead. Thousands of them tortured to death. Kids killed. Etc.. Shit happens. People are the most brutal and fucked up animals on Earth.

So the next time something like this happens, and you feel bad about it, which is your right as a human to show emotions, just remember, that there is no excuse or blame for this stuff. You cannot stop it. Even if you lock up alllll fo the guns in the world, and try and round up all of the psychopaths, there will always be that one guy or girl who is completely normal, but put into a fucked up situation where he/she cracks and goes nuts, and if it isn't a gun they'll use then it's a hammer, or a bat, or anthrax or whatever else they can get their hands onto, and then the whole fucking blame game, finger pointing, and questions of "how can we prevent this?!" shit will just happen all over again.

It sucks. It does. But get on with your life, and just be glad it wasn't you or anyone you know directly involved. And just try to live your life to the fullest and best, because it can all be taken away that quickly and randomly in a place where you may consider it safe and non-threatening, you never fucking know.

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