scottspfd82

Some of you might remember my thread about being broke as fuck around a week or so ago.

So, I put my playstation 3 up on ebay. It's in perfect like new condition. I had a return policy that stated

"Returns only if DOA, let me know if the system isn't working within 24 hours after you receive it and I'll refund your money, beyond that, no refunds."

A guy ended up buying it using BIN for $550, which is way more then they're going for on average used. He was a powerseller out of Ca, so I was happy.

I packed it up extremely carefully, and shipped it off.

He sends me an email today saying it's scratched all to hell and he's demanding a refund. I know for a fact this is BS, it was perfect.

I sold it because I needed the damn money. I really can't afford to give him a refund. I'm 99% sure that he figured out he can get one a lot cheaper and that's the only reason he's asking for a refund.

So now I'm worried about a few things. I asked for pictures, but I'm afraid he'd scratch it up himself, and then it'd be worth a lot less if I do decide to refund his money. I don't want any negative feedback either.

The main thing I'm worried about is that if I decide to just tell him I gave him what he paid for and to fuck off that my paypal and bank accounts could get frozen. That'd really fuck me good at this point.

The package was insured, and I did get a delivery confirmation required on it.

I've never had a bad experience on ebay. Anyone have any advice for a situation like this? Thanks.

-Scott

Unarmed Gunman

Yeah, you're fucked. I stopped dealing with eBay on a large scale awhile ago because "The customer is always right", except for the fact that 99% of the time they are actually wrong.

Try explaining that to Paypal. If he demands a refund and you don't give it, they will freeze your account (although I've never heard of them being able to freeze an actual bank account, just your paypal account). One time, my account had about $1500 in it and was frozen because of two complaints. One for $8 and the other one for $20. Even though the customers were full of shit, I still offered to refund after my account was frozen, but it took about 3 months to get the rest of my funds unfrozen.

I fucking HATE Paypal. Of course, I still use it. I just dump my money into my bank accounts alot more often now. Less exposure the better.

Your best bet - issue a refund, then go to the guys house and break his windows. That'll learn 'em.

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ScottDaMan

Your situation could be worse. He could send you a couple bricks in a box with delivery confirmation and have proof he mailed you the PS3 back and demand paypal refund the money or call his credit card and chargeback.

Sellers have no protection anymore. That's why I only sell cheap shit on there. Not to mention, your still getting fucked by eBay for the final value fees, listing fees, BIN price, etc.

You would have been better off with a local newspaper ad or local-exchange craigslist. Less likely to get anally probed by your customer.

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HellaGood

You would save on eBay fees by using these outlets, but the customer can still fuck you over if you accept payments via Paypal.

I sold a lot of ebay stuff during the happier days of 1998, until things started going to pot a couple of years later. There was the constant nickel placement fee rises, final value fee rises, scammers taking over and when eBay bought Paypal that was the final nail in the coffin. The seller can't sell a thing without being fleeced every step of the way, and now the seller can't collect payments without Paypal taking their cut. Maybe Google checkout competition will improve things by tossing a bit of competition into the mix, but I don't see things going back to the way things were in the 1990s.

Every dog has its day, and so did eBay.

Andrew

Paypal Rule #1: Don't keep any money in your Paypal account
Paypal Rule #2: Always follow rule #1

Tell him your looking into it, empty your paypal account, and thats it.

scottspfd82

Done and done

I never keep a dime in my paypal account, due to the horror stories that I've heard.

I've also heard stories of paypal being able to freeze bank accounts though, is there any truth to this? This would worry me much more than having the paypal account frozen.

Karl Evans

PayPal have no control over your bank account, they have no way of closing or freezing it.

smash

Absolutely positively without a doubt no way that Paypal could get your bank account frozen for this. Tell him that it's not how your provided it. If you insured it then file a postal claim, or make a good offer of faith to throw like $50 buck his way or whatever the difference between the market and what you sold it for.

chatmasta

You said that you would refund if the system wasn't working within 20 hours. So there's supposedly scratches on it. Tell him tough shit, that wasn't your refund policy and to stop bullshitting you.

Or just post his address and ebay account on wickedfire.

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scottspfd82

Muahahaa.

Chatmasta, gotta say, I like you more with every post you make. Here's something I'd like to see from you.

"How To: Manage you're 100k keyword list you made with my kick ass keyword tool."

chris22

You clearly stated in the auction no refunds unless it was DOA. He's a powerseller right? If he wants his money back, he can resell it himself. Either that or tell him to buy some scratch remover, if they have that kind of stuff for ipods, cds, etc, then they have something for playstations.

chatmasta

Still trying to figure that out myself. The more advanced version is much easier, though, since it separates into adgroups.

And for some reason there's a bug in it right now that doesn't differentiate between prefix and suffix. :|

But that's a little off topic hehe...

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jerxs

Ive been fucked out of large amounts of money selling on Ebay and because of PayPals policies. I think the best advice you got so far was from Andrew, its gotten to a point where the seller has to be more concerned with being scammed than the buyer.

PayPal are complete an total assholes, even with proof of sales and shipment I still got fucked on more than one occasion. The last involved my account being froze up with thousands in it which devistated me, now you couldnt pay me enough to use PayPal, you pay by check, money order or cashiers check or we dont do business period!

Jer

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lerchmo

jesus, check , money order or cashiers check is a pain in the ass, find some way to accept credit cards!

tigertom

Same problem; they get the CC company to issue a chargeback, and you're out the money. Scammers love Ipods and Playstations, 'cause they can easily sell them on. Be wary of your buyers, especially Nigerians / Romanians / Any one offering an unusual method of payment.

Offer it for sale locally on a message board (online or offline), if you have the population density. Get the cash when they turn up. If they do.

Tell your customer to post the item back, then issue a refund.

Even cheques can be dodgy; wait at least a week after the money's in your account; banks take a while to cancel dud cheques, and then they'll take the money back from you.

PS: The fact that he offered more than the normal second-hand price was a red flag; he never meant to pay you, so he was being 'generous'. Look at 'completed listings' to see the true value of any item.

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TigerTom

webonline

Ebay is crap. I don't buy or sell there. As was stated earlier Ebay used to be a good place to sell in the 90's but since 2004 it has turned to shit with fee hikes, paypal ******, and other people trying to screw you over. ALso people don't bid as much on items. Too many cheapos looking for a bargain. And then they get all pissed when it comes a day late or isn't in factory new condition.

Voodooman

Ebay & PayPal have become total shit. It use to be good, but now just a bunch of scammers and bottom feeders on it. Scammers just waiting to fuck you using PayPal at ever corner.

Take all your funds out of PayPal. Never leave a fucking dime for those scum bags to freeze. Also beware they might try to charge your bank account for the reversed charge. Personally, I would keep $0 funds in your personal account to or even close it.

Paypal isn't going to eat the charge if the buyer does a chargeback. They will try their best to stick it to you. Also, did you do deliver confirmation with signature. It isn't just good enough to have only deliver confirmation. You also need signature for anything over $200. It's been a while since I've done any business with those dirt bags.

Good Luck.

WebbLasVegas

I was a Power Seller for some years, and an avid Paypal user. According to the Paypal TOS, they have the right to charge back refunded payments to your bank account of record. If they ever try and can't because the funds are not in the account, then the chargeback stays fuckin' forever. The only way around it is to never put money in that account again, and hope that they don't file a complaint that will follow you to any new bank that you try to open an account with. (Oh! Sorry about ending with a preposition, but it pisses me off, too!)

Unarmed Gunman

Ending with a preposition? WTF? I must be on the wrong forum. I didn't know this was "Stupid Ass Grammar Rules For Jerk-Offs." Wait - is it jerk offs or jerk-offs? Or jerkoffs? Wait that wasn't a complete sentence was it?

FUCK!

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JamesH

LOL @ unarmed. Thats fucking hilarious.

But seriously, I don't see why everyone bitches about Paypal. I haven't had any problems with them. However I will heed to everybody's advice and only keep a buck or two in there.

Symmetry Power

This is really good advice and everyone should heed this. Seller's get fucked by Ebay and Paypal all the time by fraud or people wanting to be a dick.. I got fucked out of 1200 dollars because someone claimed unauthorized use of their paypal account.. even though I had proof of receipt.. they just claimed it wasn't them and I got a chargeback.. so I'm through with paypal on any large scales now.

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LazyD

Ill throw in my 2 cents with PayPal too, biggest bunch of fuckin bastards...

As an example, SomethingAwful Forums decided to raise money when the whole Katrina thing hit, they raised $15,000+ by donations into a PayPal account. The money was then to be transferred to I believe the Red Cross directly.

Paypal froze the account stating that the SA owner "Did not provide a shipping address for the goods" and that his "customers" had recieved complaints or some bullshit like that. I believe in the end, he managed to get the money back. He even told PayPal that he didnt want it back as long as they would send the money from the account to the Red Cross and provide him confirmation that they did...

Im not entirely sure whatever happend but what a bunch of fucking pricks

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halfpc

forget the grammar, what's wrong with jerking off?

ffblueocean

$$ are better kept under the bed. only risk is fire. great advise!

airforcematt

There are only two kinds of people that are using paypal
#1 Ones that have been royally screwed by paypals stupid policies
or
#2 Ones that WILL be royally screwed at some point by paypal

I myself am in the #1 category

Jon

First..

When will people finally learn that PAYPAL IS NOT A BANK! They are a processor with a bit more extra features than the other processors around.

Second..

Never.. ever.. ever.. leave more than $100 in your Paypal account. Force yourself to make it a habit so that as soon as you get the cash sent to you, you transfer it right away to your bank account.

Third..

Paypal cannot freeze your bank accounts. They may have cash, but they aren't THAT powerful to override your wishes or your privacy agreement with your bank. Paypal can, and will freeze your paypal account, but they can't do shit to your bank account unless you approve them to do so.

Fourth..

ALWAYS USE A CREDIT CARD or DEBIT CARD when using Paypal. Why? Because if you somehow fuck up so badly and have no other choice but to go this route, you can call your bank or credit card and tell them there is a purchase or withdrawal that you did NOT make. They take this shit pretty seriously too, and 99.999999% of the time will void your card (re-issue you a new one, no worries) and refund whatever you lost. Paypal will take the hit, not you.

There is a good site from waaaay back when called paypalsucks.com -- I suggest you read it before putting lots of trust into paypal next time. I use Paypal, but always transfer my funds out immediately, you should do the same from now on.

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HellaGood

This is true, but I'd like to add a bit of detail to the fuhrer's point. You have to take a pen and paper and snail mail them a letter detailing the problem, and this will legally enable you to withhold payment. If you call them up you still have to make payment on the disputed amount. They can charge you interest if you don't pay it if you haven't snail mailed.

Also, it should be remembered that as a not-bank, Paypal funds are not protected by the FDIC. The feds will back you up if anybody gets their grubby paws on your money in a real bank. You can thank FDR and the New Deal for this one.

geekcognito

You and me both, brotha. I can't stand Paypal, but as much as they suck I trust other sites like egold even less.

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"While you have lost some money, you have also gained some knowledge. So in the end you may have not lossed at all. Good luck bro." ~ Sumitdhawan09

MyOwnDemon

Tell the buyer to go fuck himself. The buyer sounds like he's trying to scam you, so I don't think he'll push the issue too far if you refuse to refund his $$. Or you can refund his cash, get your ps3 back (probably beat to hell at this point), and swallow the loss. Your choice.

On a related note...

One of my friends used ebay last year to sell $3000 of music equipment. For some reason, he never got the money from the buyer. I don't know what arrangement he had set up with the buyer, but apparently the buyer had no intention of actually paying for the equipment. Since the buyer was in a different state, my friend called the FBI. He definitely got his equipment back, but it was a HUGE fuckin mess which totally convinced me to never ever use ebay. (Note: I'm not really sure how the buyer/seller thing on ebay works, but this is how my friend told the story to me).

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BlondeTM

No. Not true. I used to do ebay as a full time business for almost five years. I quit over a year ago, but this year they decided to pay someone else's T-Mobile bill and their Comcast Cable bill out of my account. To the tune of $500. I disputed it, and it would have been really easy for them to research and find out those accounts weren't mine. Instead, they stuck me in collections. I hate them with the intensity of a billion white hot suns.

The worst thing that can happen is they put you into collections and report it to the credit bureau. You can dispute it, and they have to show proof of the validity of the debt (which they can't, they choose to do these refunds without proof). Within 30 days, it's removed from your credit report (that's if it even goes there, so far it hasn't with me).

As soon as I realized they weren't going to do anything, I stopped any money from going into the account (they wouldn't let me close it with a negative balance) and I closed the bank account that was hooked up to it (I was stupid enough to have my bank account as a backup source for the Paypal debit card, which is what was used to pay some idiot's phone and cable).

BlondeTM

I was selling in 1998, and I agree...those were the days. Now you have to sell a million items to make a dollar. Ebay has their fingers all over every cent, and they cater to places like refurb centers of major retailers.

NewMexSex

So, your eBay account has been suspended for one of many reasons claimed by eBay Security & Trust. In the past four months alone, I've had various accounts of mine suspended for the following reasons:

(1) non-pay strikes (2nd most common reason)
(2) account linked to a suspended account (next most frequent)
(3) fucking with the ratings system via overt manipulation
(4) threatening direct physical bodily injury to a seller via the eBay email system (by far the most common with me)

Here is what to do BEFORE, yes BEFORE your account is suspended:

(1) daily if not thrice daily, save all your eBay screens onto your hard drive (items I'm bidding on, items I've won, items I've not won, items I'm watching, my Summary, my IN BOX, my OUT BOX). You do this by getting the respective eBay folder up on display, set the display options to max (display 200 items) so all your items will display on one screen and then select save page and label it with date and time stamp in file label. That way, when your eBay account is indeed suspended and you no longer have up to the second access to your bidding, items won, not won, watching, ...at least you have a saved copy hopefully not too old and out-of-date...I re-save my screens to my own hard drive every time I do a transaction (up my bid, create an opening bid, pay for something, ...) and you can just circumvent eBay's attempt to deprive you of your information. Then, having opened up a new eBay account under a new fake name and physical address, you just go back to your saved screens and start re-bidding your items from your closed/suspended account onto your new fresh account! See!

(2) lead on the eBay sellers who have already threatened to file non-pay strikes to re-coup their filing fees. Go into the Dispute Console and make up some kind of bull-shit like "I'll kindly pay you next Wednesday for a hamburger (or promise to not close dispute with a non-pay strike). String them along for as long as possible before paying them or just not pay them and tell them so and ask them to enter a mutual agreement to not complete the transaction - allot of sellers will agree to do this because eBay refunds their filing fee anyways - and you don't get a non-pay strike.

(3) once your non-pay strikes amount to two (2), it is time to execute your exit strategy because one more NPS and three strikes you are out. So, again, MAKE CERTAIN that you have THE LATEST and most recent information on your bidding, won, not won and mail box SAVED TO YOUR HARD DRIVE in Internet page form with photos, highest bid, ...then just start bidding with reckless abandon and cussing and threatening sellers who have fucked you over - basically, get as many items bid on with outrageous high bids so the collateral damage will be at its maximum for the eBay sellers and therefore eBay Security & Trust when you are indeed suspended and blocked. Target long-established eBay POWER SELLERS to fuck over on over-bidding on their items because they will bitch and moan the loudest and most effectively to eBay Security & Trust when you show up as a non-registered user and they can't get their $$ for your winning and/or highest bid. They have direct toll-free #s in to eBay and usually a specific account representative they can speak with in person at eBay. It just all makes eBay S&T look bad - and you want this because eBay Security & Trust is ENEMY #1 with the cheating, lying, con-artist eBay buyer.

(4) re-register with eBay using:

(a) a totally new email address you've NEVER USED with eBay registration before so it can't be cross-traced and your new account registration blocked. Just go make up a new email account on hot mail, Gmail, yahoo, ...and use the same fake physical address in your email account registration that you will use in your eBay account registration - so they will match up. Also use a fake name. Easiest way to accomplish this is to use Google Earth and look at some town or city map and select a road or street on the outskirts of town that probably does not have developed houses on it. Then make up a street number and put it with that street and use the corresponding correct zip code for that street's area. Get the area code and exchange prefix for that area and zip code by doing a Google search for businesses in that zip code and then just randomly make up the last 4 digits of the 7-digit phone number.

(b) IMPORTANT: You must use a new or different mailing address (physical) and email address than you've used on previous eBay account registrations prior on previously suspended accounts...otherwise the eBay user registration server software will detect it by cross-reference and block your new registration.

(c) use the same credit card number you have always used when asked by eBay registration. It does not even have to match the registered name and billing/physical address you used to register your new eBay account...just as long as it is valid...eBay basically requires a credit card # at registration to verify you are at least 18...the age requirement of most credit card issuers. I've used the EXACT same Visa card with VERY little line of credit on it perhaps ten (10) times in the last six (6) months to register various eBay accounts with fake names and physical addresses and phone numbers. eBay does not even have their shit together enough to cross-reference the credit card name, number and billing address with that of the eBay account registration name and physical address to see if they match! IDIOTS! Therein lies their ENTIRE bogus registration account problem. But, until they fix this loop hole, exploit the HELL out of it!

(d) Wa la, you should be set up with an entirely new account on eBay to go about raping & over-bidding with a brand-new fresh slate.

(5) Paying via PayPal

eBay is so dumb and not with it that you can actually use the same PayPal account you used on the last suspended eBay bidder account and never get caught. Even though eBay has owned PayPal for well over two years now, apparently the two companies don't talk to one another allot because I have paid for won eBay items with the same old PayPal account over several different named & addressed eBay accounts now suspended. All you have to do is when you check out on PayPal, be sure and CHANGE the shipping address to the name and address where you actually want the eBay auction item to go...because eBay will automatically enter the registered physical address you put in your eBay registration - which is fake - correct? So, you really must look out to change the shipping address to your own address and name on PayPal and eBay will be none the wiser.

(6) open several eBay buyer accounts at once so that you can perform shill bidding to scare off other potential otherwise legit bidders with long-standing high ratings, ...in other words - SQUARES! By bidding up the item high, by several of your other fake eBay buyer accounts and keeping on bid low - the account you actually want to win the auction in - you can then RETRACT bids made from the other eBay accounts you control under fake names/addresses before the 12th hour remaining on the auction leaving only your low bid remaining - which is now instantly the high bid. Of course, other bidders might come in in the last 12 hours of the auction and overbid you and bid snipers might as well in the final seconds - but as a numbers game, I've found this method works well...allot of serious bidders will not come back in the last 12 hours if the early bidding has been set to ridiculously unrealistic levels - they will just blow it off and move on, leaving you and all your fake shill bidders to do your dirty deeds. This method works about 30-50% of the time in my experience.
Also, by having several accounts opened at once, you can really fuck over asshole power sellers by filing excessive S&H complaints, fraudulent postings, counterfeit goods, ... against them ... if enough different users do it, they sometimes get suspended.

(7) register on a public computer in a public library or cafe, ... that does not require proof of ID to log-on. That way eBay can also not track you down by the IP address of the PC you used to register. And always use a public PC to do this fraudulent and legitimate (for items you actually want to acquire) bidding on your several different fake eBay accounts.

The key is to leave no paper or electronic trail back to your physical address and true identity. Easily done because eBay Security & Trust is a victim of their own huge success, there are not nearly enough staff people at eBay to police every single cheater out there...so, be a small-time serial cheater and you will get away with murder on eBay and fuck them back for fucking you in the first place.

And on and on and on...I know about every dirty trick and technical loop hole in the eBay system.

halfpc

+ rep for the effort!