-joe-

This morning, to my surprise, got a job offer over the phone. It sounds pretty much like they're set on hiring me.

I hadn't actually applied anywhere, but a few months ago, I applied to a few places on Monster, and looks like I'm still on there.


The position is "Marketing Automation Manager", and it's full time. They have 36k employees worldwide, and last year had a revenue of $5.6 billion.

It's 55 minutes drive from where I live, and with petrol at the equivalent of $8.60 to the gallon here, that's a bit of a cost.

I'd just do internet marketing rather than working for someone, but I don't have a lot of funds, currently I'm spending all my funds in a couple of days on ads (with a 100% ROI normally) and then having to wait over a week for the money to come through.

When they called this morning, they asked me to name the sort of salary range I was looking for. Since I was bleary, and hadn't been looking at jobs, I couldn't come up with one.

They replied with an offer of £20k a year (=$32.5k), with pension plan (lol) healthcare, and something else, I didn't hear.

When I heard this, I thought it sounded a little low, but didn't say anything. I mentioned it to my driving instructor afterwards, and he agreed it sounded a bit low. I'd think £25k+ is more reasonable, at the least? (=$40.6k)

So, they said to get back to them, anyway, and there's gonna be a telephone interview. So my question is, how can I renegotiate the salary now, getting the most possible, while still keeping my chances how they are?

Thanks

Tits for your trouble:

HiGhPeR

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gbmack

Ever heard of a loan?

-joe-

Not for a 17 year old, no.

justo_tx

Sounds like your salary is going to be wiped out on gas... err petrol prices. Sounds like a waste to me, if you really knew "automation" you'd be worth a whole lot more than what they are offering.

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rick55555

I'm very conservative when it comes to this sort of thing. I suggest you take the job without further negotiations. That way, you have a job. In the event that you choose to stick with the job, you can request a salary increase later on down the line. Should you make it big in online marketing, you can always quit the job.

My concern is that your requesting more money might encourage them to find someone else (who is requesting a cheaper rate of pay). The economy isn't at its finest point.

Either way, best of luck.

SUP3RNOVA

Credit card in the rents name?

As far as the salary negotiation, find ways to prove that you're worth more than $32k to them. Prove that you'll be able to increase their gross sales $32k/month.

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faceblogger

$32.5k = 90$/day

Dude, just set up 10-15 micro niche sites and do some solid SEO, they would give you a steady $90/day after 2-3 months and meanwhile you can expand your paid traffic skills & knowledge with your own testings and PPVPlaybook.

It is possible because this model started working for me. Remember that in internet marketing your income level will increase every year in a big way.

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vgeek

If you want to take the job, call the HR guy back and say you've done research and ask if they'd be comfortable with paying you $X. Suggest that your number is closer for those with your skill-set. Don't demand it, just ask. If they say no, you can ask how close they can come to your figure, settle for their number, or walk away.

amateursurgeon

Yep - get "Secrets Of Power Negotiating" by Roger Dawson. I think it's on PDF if you hunt around, but I have a hardback copy.

Read it all in one sitting (about 3 hours) - it's very easy to digest.

Profit. (that book has made me a fucking fortune in the 10 years since I've read it)

20K is a derisory salary for that job. After tax & NI you'll be left with less than 1125 a month in your bank account. After motoring costs, that's 925 a month, assuming you get your own lunch, don't buy coffee etc.

On the other hand - if you're looking to build a career as an employee in the online marketing world, it's good on CV.

trickykid

Do some comparables. Look up other job postings that are similar to the job you are offered and see if they have any wages beside them. A lot of job postings will actually tell you what they wage will be. See if they are higher or lower then yours.

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BeerNuts

30k is way to low unless you are just starting out of college. I made more than that at my first two jobs out of college with no experience at all. I certainly would not to it now with the experience I have now, you shouldn't either.

As for how to ask for a better salary just tell them you want more. lol Seriously they asked you what you think your worth. If you say 32k is ok then that's it. But if you tell them you are looking for X amount more then back it up highlighting your experiences and prove you are worth it.

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AdHustler

Since you think they really want you thats good for your negotiation.

Do something I call "number setting" - Tell them your damn good at what you do and on your own, in your spare time you make double that. Tell them you were looking for more like $xxx,xxx which will probably scare them but maybe they'll counter you with high $xx,xxxx because now they think their getting a deal (because you set that six figure number in their head) - It may work, it may not but I say its worth a try.

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Hav3n

55 min commute at $8.60.

So lets call it a 40-60 mile commute (or the traffic equivalent)

that is 2 to 3 gallons (at 20mpg) (one way) = $16 to $25 times 2 = $32 to $50 / day of your $90/day spent on gas.


Sounds like a no go to me. You'll probably end up hating your job real quick.


That said... typically businesses plan on being able to offer up to 20% more than what they offered.

So i'd ask for 10% more and you're probably going to get it np..... if you actually want the job

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goldmercury

£20k at 17 years of age is pretty good if you ask me - however I would negotiate that you were expecting at least £25k however after 6 months if they like your work your salary go to at least £25k.

I think this will sell better to them as you are young so there taking a chance - and with all that energy you probably have you can slog it out for 6 months and show them your worth. Just don't let them screw you in 6 months time though! Get it in writting.

Kiopa_Matt

Ummm, you do know is a commission based job, right? Sorry, but I'd be surprised to find out it's a conventional job where you're getting a monthly salary. Sounds like the typical, straight out of the book methods used to get commission based affiliates.

More than likely, during your "telephone interview" (it's more of a sales pitch than an interview), you'll get told you'll be working on commission, not salary. You'll also get told how absolutely amazing the company is, and if you work for them, money & champagne will fall from the clouds, and life will be just bloody blissful.

Moral of the story: Be skeptical.

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cougarclaws

ask them if you can work remotely

-joe-

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. I think the job title's a bit of bullshit tbh, I looked over the job specs, and I can't really see any automation about it - just involves basic html, doing basic wordpress stuff, and managing a few online ad campaigns.

I'd considered that option - taking the job, getting them some sweet results, then go "look, I've generated you x ROI, I think I'm worth more than this"

The last part is what I'm worried about.
Not sure they'd go for that tbh. My mum has enough money problems as it is, and I'm not sure my dad trusts me enough - he's never been late/defaulted on a payment in his life.

Good plan, thanks
Yeah, I do have a selection of micro-niche domains. Problem is, as you said, that's 2-3 months, I can't wait that long tbh. I need to be paying rent, and (partly because of epic's screwups) I have a measly $20 in my bank account atm.

At least this might give me some nice extra experience, as I should hopefully have a nice ad budget to play with.

I have no intentions of straying away from IM, it's just this may help (plus I can hire Indians with the money to write content for the niche sites)

That's the thing though, I really don't want to walk away. If it would mean possibly jeopardising the chances of getting the job, I'd settle for the salary they offered.
Nice one, thanks, I'll have a hunt for that, and read it today

That's what I thought about the salary too. Now I think of it, I think I can probably negotiate higher than that. For the money, I doubt anyone applying will have comparable real-world experience.

No plans to become an employee longterm - this is definitely a temporary thing.

Thanks
Good point, will do, thanks I found the job I got called about, and yeah, it doesn't mention anything. They seem to be paying more for some lower level positions though, so yeah. I'll have a look though at other companies salaries for similar.
kk. And I'm not out of college, in fact, didn't finish secondary school hehe, left last december. I got good grades in my GCSEs though (last summer, aged 16)

And thanks for the advice, nice and concise

tatrasim

Just tell them right away that it is low for you because of the drive, either raise it up or let you work from home a few days a week... Unless you plan to move closer in the future if you like it, then just say 40k and lets start.

MSTeacher

This. As long as you're OK with the possibility of scaring them off and not hearing from them again.

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jacky8

Don't let go the job offer and continue IM on the side!

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identity_00

It is low but if you've never worked in the industry at all (you're pretty young) then this is your foot in the door. 6 months later and you can start shopping around for much more. The best way to get a raise (that will make any difference) is to change jobs or be in a position of control/power. Being able to do (or have knowledge of) something that no body else can do or by making it extremely difficult for them to find someone new with those skills. If you done that - then you're ready to negociate because theyll need you and you're adding real value.

lukep

Sounds a bit scammy to me too... Listen to Kiopa_Matt on this one; there are ALL KINDS of "Jobs" out there that sound like this, some sneakier than others, that just want to get you to place PPC ads with money out of YOUR pocket. (Or other sneaky stuff.)

If it turns out not to be a scam, which you won't know until you're sitting in a room with them and have papers in front of you to sign, be sure to negotiate a price that gives you what you need beforehand.

Start by totalling up what you need NOT related to this job, (Such as rent costs, food while not working, a savings plan, paying back mommy for something, friday night fun money, wickedfire traffic packages, etc, etc...) then add in the costs you'll incurr with lunches on the job, petro, and even oil changes/other maintenance.

Once you've got all those numbers on one sheet in front of you, it's easy to figure out how much you need to be asking for as a salary. Don't settle for less or you'll hate yourself for it later.

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Reverence

Being an online marketer/online marketing manager is not a 9-5 job. You have to constantly check stats every 2-3 hrs. and pause and optimize. See if you can work remotely but for the interview meet them in person and maybe go to the office once a week/biweekly/month?

aswinglater

What about letting them know you make much more than that (even if you dont) with your current activities but you are interested in joining their team, yada yada yada.
Ask for 40k/yr to start and include a renegotiation 3-6 months after your start date. In that time you can demonstrate your real value add and prove how much you are worth to them. It might be that the job itself is pretty fucking mindless and actually isnt worth your time or just doesnt justify paying you what your time is actually worth.
They very well may have picked out your resume and contacted you specifically because they figure you have limited prospects since you dont have a degree and they think you will work yourself to death for a couple pounds a week. Dont be overly confident that they are salivating at the chance to hire you but don't sell yourself short either.

Btw, do you really need to move out or can you live with your parents for a while if you started that job? I know that everyone wants to GTFO asap but if you can spend money on campaigns that would otherwise be going towards rent and food you will be SOOOOOOOOOOOO much better off in 3/6/12 months time. Just a thought.

Cheers

Pulse

fast forward to 3:30 ...not sure how this would work over the phone tho lol

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Yaxxx

Spend $500, this time next week = $1k. End of June = $10k'ish assuming there's room to scale your campaign.

And glad to see you've accepted the britfag label.

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Roman Holiday

THIS

If you've got a winning campaign beg borrow or steal your way to get the necessary capital. This is all assuming that the campaign is scalable and sustainable, but you'll never know the latter for certain. If you can't get a loan there has to be someone you know that would loan you the cash for like 5% of the profit or something. Think outside the box, there has to be somebody. I hate owing people, but in some situations it has to be done. Take him to your computer and show him exactly what your doing, how much money your making and the cash payments that are hitting your bank account every week, that way you can ease his mind and minimize his feeling of risk.

Fuck working for the man, especially for peanuts which you'll end up making after gas money.

stinkher

there is always room for negotiation is what i always say !!!!!
nice teen racks there yummy

jenzkc

say you just got an offer from another company which pays more. i've searched for like a year in the past just to find a job that paid what i wanted.

never settle.

clyde

-joe-, just go for it for 25k pounds and have fun at your job.

Quit when you have sites making $90/day.

The job will help you get loans and credit cards anyway so it's not exactly a loss even with the low pay.

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mattseh

hahaha £20k in London? Get investors for your PPC.

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Flash4Ever

Can anyone tell me how a multinational corp (36k employees) could hire as "Marketing Automation Manager" a 17 years old with no professional history and no CV?
Sounds scammy.

cougarclaws

if they want you to sign up for a free credit report before hiring you, don't do it bro!

DanWesson

Lol at tags.

If you want the job take it, but even if you decide not to try to negotiate on salary you NEED to work out some sort of remote working agreement for at least a few days each week. Costs aside, I'm betting that's a commute you're not going to want to do for long.

Also, what the others said about beg, borrow, or steal the money you need to scale what you have going...if it's working.

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YouDontKnowMe

Instead of asking for more money, ask them to reimburse you for travel costs (which basically in the end would be the same to you as getting a raise).

Or if you would rather take more cash (either way) wait until after the interview and they offer you the job. Do some research for similar companies in the industry (appear knowledgeable) and tell them competitors are offering a higher rate.

</serious>

Good luck bro.

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taktikz

Going to check this out.

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asianpersuasian

I'd stick to IM. You can easily clear that paycheck in less than a month with a good campaign.

17 as well and don't think I'll be getting a "real job" anytime soon.

Dresden14

dam on pic 2

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Fatbat

£20k is bullshit wages man. I don't care what shape the economy is in or how old you are, if you have skills that are in demand an employer should be prepared to offer you more than what are slightly better than minimum wages. To put things in comparison I was hiring entry/middle weight designers at my last place of employment at £36k + benefits, which I still think is low, but they got raises eventually. Age and education didn't matter, skills did.

Also consider that on top of the already ridiculous petrol prices you'll be paying, plus parking, wear and tear on your car, etc. etc. you're going to be sat in traffic for 2+ hours every day... which is 40+ hours a month of your life wasted behind the wheel. 40 hours that would be better spent earning money, playing video games, jerking off... anything. I would never commute like that in a fucking million years. If you put any value on your time and sanity just put that thought right out of your head. I'd rather move a 5 minute walk away from the office and pay much higher rent than sit in traffic every day. That's just stupid.

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IMHopeful

Lots of truth in this statement. It all seems like roses until the initial excitement of a new job wears off...and bitterness sets in. Also, by the time you get home, it will be time to get up and do it all over again.

scp2seo

anytime you negotiate salary, you're risking your potential employer becoming annoyed at your request. Then again, who cares, it has to be winwin for both sides. I would just set out reasonable demand. If they really want you, they'll hire you, otherwise, they're just fucking w/ you

jryan21

I'm 99% sure I know the company; they are very well established, and it doesn't look like they are going through a recruiter. It's also a new position, so that might be why they are coming to you with such a low offer, since they don't have a lot of history with the position.

If you feel uncomfortable about asking for more, use the commute to justify it. Tell them you'd be fine with their offer if they were local, but an extra 10-15% would be enough to make the commute a non-factor.