photoshop_girl

thank you. this really sums it very nicely. it was obvious to me from the start that moxie's intent wasn't to have a genuine discussion but to confuse and obfuscate by focusing on individual little bits of what i'd written. the end result being just a big hopeless mess of confusion and going off on tangents. it is my fault, though, for playing into his game. i guess i found it amusing for a little while, but it was/is certainly a waste of time.

i realize that looking at race critically/honestly is perhaps the biggest taboo in our society today. believe me, i certainly didn't expect many people or anyone, really, to agree with me. the schools (from kindergarten to the highest levels of college,) television, the media in general teach us that this just isn't something you're allowed to talk about and remain a part of society. you can do just about anything else and eventually be forgiven/accepted, but not this. so, part of my motivation for was curiousity about how people would react and the thrill of expressing "illegal" ideas.

and, no, i didn't support ever word i wrote with complete documentation. this isn't a dissertation and i honestly don't care about convincing people if they don't want to be convinced. if you are interested in the topic, look into it yourself.

to talk about race in any mainstream context you have to go in with the unshakable assumption that any observed differences between the races must be the result of anything other than race. if the data doesn't fit this assumption, then the data must be wrong. well, with one qualification...it's allright to say there are inherent race differences if they say something positive about non-whites. for example, that blacks have higher than average athletic ability (which i'm sure is probably true.)

the opposite, however, to say that some non-white race has some negative inherent quality (for example, that blacks are inherently more criminal/violent), is emphatically not allowed to even be discussed. this just seem so dishonest and anti-intellectual, anti-knowledge. how can lying to ourselves really be a good idea in the long run?

medicalhumor

Lol at the tags

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pro-life
adj. Valuing human life until birth.

photoshop_girl

LAST POST.

what indication was there that this was my "thesis"?? it was an, perhaps overly dramatic and sensational, off-hand comment at then end of one my posts. did you honeslty think i was unaware that plenty of crimes are committed by other races, or were you just trying to mischaracterize me in order to win "points?"

but yes, removing nearly half of the total crime in the country would make a huge difference. the reason i said that somehow theoretically removing all black/hispanic crime would make life here very different has as much to do with how crime from different groups affects the area in which it takes place, though (as i discussed repeatedly.) so, yes, i do maintain that stopping all black/hispanic crime would make more than a 50% change/improvement in safety levels for a given "person on the street"

can you think of any american city in which the white part of town is the dangerous, bad part? no, right? agreeing that whites commit at least half the total crimes, isn't this odd? it's because whites apparently keep their bad behaviour more private and isolated. the vast majority of black parts of town, though, are best avoided by outsiders of any race. i just think it strange that nobody really questions the fact that large portions of many american cities are all but off limits to its majority population.

i suspect your real motivation (conscious or not) for focusing on that little aside is that you felt, by taking it more literally than i meant it and out of context (the context being street crime that leads to a city or area being unfit to live in), that it was one thing that you could successfully "disprove."

my "main thesis" to the extent that their was one, is simply that blacks commit way more crimes percentage-wise than any other group. and, if you want to take it further, i was suggesting (though not really attempting to prove) that this might be because of inherent (genetic) differences.

Moxie

You must be on a mission to overtake hellblazer as the biggest troll in wickedfire history. I directly responded in a logical manner to your original points. You then went off on strange tangents and I continued to play along and respond with facts and logic.

We have FACTUAL DATA that shows the average heights and such of the races. We do not have facts showing that races have different brain chemistry. Scientists have spent countless hours examining the inner biology of all types of people. If there were major differences, such as there are between male and females, it would be known by now.

You can bring it up in college class if you want, but of course you will need FACTS and EVIDENCE to back it up. If not, it will obviously be speculation that you pulled out of your ass.

It was the entire message of your post which I responded to. Instead of owning up to the absurdity of that post, you went off on a fallacies of distraction spree.

Again, whole college courses are devoted to issues such as this. Maybe you should take one if you are really that interested in the topic.

NO SHIT SHERLOCK, but that wasn't what was said in your post I responded to.

Suggest all you want, but there is zero proof for that. What we do have proof for is how feral children end up, or how being raised in Michael Vick's environment tends to produce a different person than someone raised in Prince William's environment.

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Moxie

No, you would have to control for every factor imaginable.

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Moxie

The same ones that would cause blacks to have higher crime rates, which would be various combinations of every factor imaginable. If you want a quick specific example, then I would say that black females who grow up millionaires would have lower crime rates than poor white males. Even then it wouldn't just be because of their gender or household income, it would still be every aspect of their life that influences their decision making process.

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VonRohn

LOL nigga, Spanish ≠ Mestizo.

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I've got ninety thousand pounds in my pyjamas.
I've got forty thousand French francs in my fridge.
I've got lots of lovely lire.
Now the Deutschmark's getting dearer,
And my dollar bills would buy the Brooklyn Bridge.

dtea206

Of course you didn't. Where can I get some of your Kool-aid?

dtea206

LOL at the WF thread having more views than the actual YouTube video itself. Where the fuck did OP dig up the video from?

Did anyone else look at the other videos posted on their YouTube channel?

+1 for bans.

Moxie

I gave you two variables (gender and wealth). With a topic this broad, there is always the chance for confounding variables. Are you suggesting a situation in which there were two male twins, one black and one white, who were raised and treated the same? I don't think either would be more prone to committing crime.

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marketer77

Moxie
Arrrr!



Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,335
iTrader: 5 / 100%



Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuckystuff
Actually...no. I hate to do this to you but according to the FBI, 15,760 murders were committed in 2009 - 5,890 committed by black offenders, 5,286 committed by white offenders, 4,584 other/unknown. This, despite blacks making up less than 13% of the population. Not only is the rate significantly higher (it's not even close, actually), but the raw numbers are actually higher as well.

Over 450,000 violent crime arrests were made in 2009. Murder is a relatively small percent of that total. About twice as many rapes and assaults were committed by whites.

Table 43 - Crime in the United States 2009
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Hey shit head can you read 15% of the population is black, based on that, blacks are through the roof on crime, aw shit forgot you cant read

marketer77

Your comparing 70% stats for white to 15% for black population, way to go Sharpton, still waiting for your reparation check my brotha!!
PATHETIC, and you do know your black prez has the worst approval rating in history right??? inb4 jesse jackson

marketer77

Stats hurt I know blacks are 15% of the population 60% of the prison population, how about those numbers??

Moxie

You sound familiar. Wait, you're the guy who sent me random pm's with links to craigslist ramblings and messages about OJ and MJ raping kids. Welcome back!

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Moxie

Where have I done that? I didn't bring up the topic and all of my replies have been responses to other posts. I've posted little opinion and have mostly stuck to facts. If you are that bothered by facts then that is your problem.

The person I was responding to complained that these topics cannot be discussed. I was discussing the topic with them, but apparently they and you are only into circle jerk discussion.

LOL, what are you talking about? I'll also ask you to go ahead and point me to this groundbreaking historical research.

What fantasy? I deal with things like STATISTICS and LOGIC. I understand how basic criminology and sociology research works, how theories are arrived at. If you are more swayed by random shit that KKK leaders pull out of their ass, then WHOOPYDOODAA FOR YOU.

What I am ignoring?

What excuses? If you want to help then perhaps you should not get so butthurt over someone simply posting facts that are accepted by most of society.

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Moxie

You're either another troll or have comprehension problems of some sort. I haven't mentioned things like whites being the devil or mentioned Jews cooking in ovens, so I have no idea what you are talking about there.

I'll make things as simple as possible one more time :

Point 1 : Removing black and hispanic crime would still leave us with over 50% of the total crime. Most people in here seem to agree with this now.

Point 2 : Causation of crime is a broad topic, but for an easy to understand example - Michael Vick would have likely ended up a different person if he was raised by Grant Hill or Prince William's parents. Hill and William would likely have ended up different if they were raised by Vick's parents. This isn't just a common sense observation, but is also backed by tons of research. The majority of people in America, including "conservatives", agree with this conclusion.

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emp

Hmmm...

I guess this topic is way too complicated for some people.

Yes, there is a disparity between reported number of crimes and percentage of the population.

In effect, if we take the 70%- white and 13%-black numbers, and a 50/50 distribution of crimes (which it almost is) we'll arrive at a homicide rate that is almost 5.4 times as high.

However, we can also look at victim statistics



Which tells us that victims of homicide are 5-8 times as likely to be black.

Hmmm...

Any way you look at it, this does not add up to "blacks are attacking whites en masse".

It rather seems that blacks are involved in violent crime (in between blacks, in between "races", etc..) more often. As offenders and as victims.

::emp::

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Your Logical Fallacies - know them to avoid them

That's because all programmers are also ninjas.(but not all ninjas are programmers) - LogicFlux

Blind Ape Seo

emp

And by the way, violent crime rate in the US is

a) Down to a level around 1970 - 40 frigging years ago
b) This stat is mostly assault and robbery. The two flat lines at the bottom? Yeah, that's rape and murder.

Don't let the fearmongers get to you. Turn off the TV and think.



::emp::

__________________
Your Logical Fallacies - know them to avoid them

That's because all programmers are also ninjas.(but not all ninjas are programmers) - LogicFlux

Blind Ape Seo

Moxie

emp, they will look at your posts and it will get translated in their brains to something like "I agree with everything Al Sharpton has ever said, liberals yadda yadda, ignore that Jews cooked in ovens."

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VonRohn

Mentioning "Jews cooked in ovens" to a German in order to trigger guilt and gain support.

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I've got ninety thousand pounds in my pyjamas.
I've got forty thousand French francs in my fridge.
I've got lots of lovely lire.
Now the Deutschmark's getting dearer,
And my dollar bills would buy the Brooklyn Bridge.

Bombastic

Non-white terrorists are getting off easy. They can even become famous rappers!