thelorax

LiveLeak.com - Mind Explosion (HD)

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shawnhag

really enjoying the ten-ish part series on history channel right now. parallel universes really blew my mind. the fact that there really is no "universe" right now only "multi-verses" is really blowing my mind. also, the fact that the system that contains the multiverses is in, is infinite - and that eventually if you keep going through space you will eventually meet your parallel self.

the space time special was also great. im currently trying to hack the google algorithm hoping that when i do i will discover the meaning of life.

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shawnhag

very cool video btw - really makes you wonder damn i wish i was an astronaut.

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Dark Cognitive

Cool video, but i think it zooms out too fast to get a good idea of the scale of things.

I like this image, certainly makes you feel small. (scroll to the right to see it all)

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thelorax

I agree Dark, they go quickly from light minutes and hours to millions and billions of years.

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mimoza3

nice image, makes you think about the scale of things...

efeezy

Great vid. I love this stuff. It fascinates the hell out of me and if I had been better at math, I probably would have been an astrophysicist or something related. For those of you who haven't read Hawkings "A Briefer History of Time" and you're into this space shit, check it out. It will give you a fairly easy to understand background on a lot of the basics like general & special relativity, blackholes, creation of the universe etc.

Here's another perspective of how small we are from the book.

"We can see about five thousand stars from Earth, only about .0001 percent of all the stars in just our own galaxy, the Milky Way. The Milky Way itself is but one of more than a hundred billion galaxies we can see using modern telescopes - and each galaxy contains on average some one hundred billion stars. If a star were a grain of salt, you could fit all the stars visible to the naked eye on a teaspoon, but all the stars in the universe would fill a ball more than 8 miles wide"

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wayn3

I happen to be an astrophysicist. Feel free to ask interesting questions.

You should also understand that anything that is recent research (anything past early 20th century), entire quantum theory, for example, is just a theory. A well proven one, but nothing more. Especially when the discovery channel talks about stuff like multiverses. That is a theory that is currently being explored by a couple dozen scientists, but you will never know whats up. They claim that black holes could be the gates to new universes being created, and Im not saying they are right or wrong, all Im saying is that its not possible to prove. Most of modern physics research is just forming theories around thin evidence.


The first concept that is hard to grasp for anyone who doesnt learn this from first principles is the way how light behaves. Everyone knows that the speed of light is a physical speed limit, and that light always travels at that speed. But when you get into special relativity, you will learn cool stuff.


Heres a question for you:

Assuming two space ships, 1 light year apart. Both travelling at a speed close to the speed of light. Lets say 99% of the speed of light, in the same direction (this is a difficult statement to make, because the concept of direction as we know it really only holds under certain conditions). The space ship that is "behind" fires a laser, because theyve got some beef. Laser is light. How long does it take for the laser to reach the other space ship? You dont need a calculator to answer this question.

Knowing the answer to question one, how long would it take for a laser fired by the space ship in front to reach the other one?

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ShadowCaster

Ok.
Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?

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pIZZaBOY

What's your favorite food?

efeezy

I guess you could call that an interesting question. I'd call it poor English skills, but hey, that's just me.

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MyOwnDemon

DAMNIT. Now I have to think today.

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wayn3

I guess

A local dish that is similar to ravioli

keep in mind that it isnt specified in which rest frame the velocity is being measured because its not important. Both questions would lead to the same answer.

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Napolean

Never or a really long time?

If fighter jets shot bows and arrows instead of missiles, it would look like the arrows were just dropping from the sky. The only boost the arrow would get at all would be the kinetic energy from the physical movement of the jet itself, which it would very quickly lose.

I would imagine its quite the same in this scenario, except the major wind and air resistance is replaced by the speed limit of light. It's not the same resistance of course, the laser just simply doesn't get a boost from kinetic energy because there is no more speed to gain.

Or, didn't see the second question in reverse. Answer #2 would be instantly wouldn't it?

danke

So the Bible is wrong?

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wayn3

I like your reasoning, but you make two mistakes.

1. the arrow is boosted by its own kinetic energy. Its velocity is equal to that of the fighter jet. Kinetic energy is a function of velocity: E=mv²/2

You are right, comparing the kinetic energy it has while not being fired is almost the same as after its being fired, so the image you draw is correct.

2. Light is fundamentally different from the objects you compare it to. Your reasoning doesnt apply. Light is massless, it doesnt get pulled by gravity (only by general relativity effects, which we are neglecting and wouldnt apply in this situation anyway). Light always travels at the same speed, regardless of the objects you compare it to.



1 light year is the distance light travels in a year.

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lukep

99 years?

(1 year apart x 1/99th speed)

Disclaimer: I fully admit I suck at all things mathematical.

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clear

No way. So a scientific theory is just a theory?!
My mind is blown now.

wayn3

Classically, at least your train of thought would be correct, but we are trying to learn about special relativity. What is the fundamental statement of special relativity? Its E=mc², but that doesnt help you because you dont have the knowledge to apply it to the problem. Keep in mind that light travels at the same speed for every (possible) observer.

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Your_Pal

I got the answer for you:-

You've got to be kidding me. I've been further even more decided to use even go need to do look more as anyone can. Can you really be far even as decided half as much to use go wish for that? My guess is that when one really been far even as decided once to use even go want, it is then that he has really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like. It's just common sense.

btw great video

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wayn3

Heres some incentive. If someone solves this puzzle on his own, hell get a free blast of the service in my signature. In order to qualify for that, you need to give a reasonable explanation of some kind, not just make wild guesses.

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Napolean

So for 1.) Does this mean that a laser beam particles inside an airplane cabin flying at 600mph would be travelling the same speed as laser beam particles on the ground?

In that case, assuming the ships are 1 light year apart, flying 99% the speed of light, then it would take 99 or 100 years for the first laser to reach the ship in front.

And for 2, it would only take 6 months? (180.675 days)

wayn3

1.) Yes, light cant be accelerated. Theres a simple reason for that, because mass is the proportionality factor between Force and acceleration. Since Photons (light) have no mass, they cant be accelerated. Consider

F=m*a where F is force, m is mass and a is acceleration. Try to change that around to a=F/m, you arrive at a problematic expression, because division by 0 is not an allowed operation mathematically. Physically, it leads to what Ive just explained.


You say "on the ground" as if its some kind of "at rest" situation. Relative to a plane, you dont travel on earth, but considering the bigger picture, you might be traveling at high velocities through space. The airplane velocity is not some absolute velocity, its just relative to you. You could be travelling way faster, depending on which direction you go and therein lies the answer to the original question.

2.) The answers you give are still fundamentally incorrect.

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tspesh

The answer is 1 year. The speed of light is relative.

wayn3

wasnt that hard? Contains a slight mistake though. The speed of light is not relative. Everything else is relative. The speed of light is a constant.

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tspesh

A good read for those interested

(I'm in Illinois, and can't even be an affiliate of Amazon)

SUP3RNOVA

Fuck, I was literally about to type 1 year and then I refreshed the thread and saw it was answered.

I had actually been thinking about it for an hour, and once I drew it on paper the answer came within seconds. I drew 2 ships and marked the line between them as 1 light year. Since they're moving the same speed, light has to travel 1 year to clear the space. Durr.

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tspesh

Except it's not exactly that simple
What Happens If You're Traveling At The Speed Of Light And Turn On Your Headlights?

zimok

I watched 2 things in my life 15+ times - the above video and the movie From Dusk Till Dawn.

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wayn3

Thats a bit simplistic. A way to illustrate the problems with the question is this:

In physics, we can place the origin of our system whereever we want. We can especially give it a constant velocity, or even a function of velocity. That "system" im talking about is pretty much the coordinate system you began drawing all the time in math in high school.

By placing that system right in between the two space ships, they are both half a light year apart and at rest, relative to the origin. Now you can just measure the distance, divide it by velocity of the photon and you get the answer. That ONLY works because the speed of light is absolute. ITs not some relative kind of thing.


Take a look at the same situation, but with runners. Assume you have two fat guys who do nordic walking. They are a 3 miles apart and travel at the same velocity (v=3 miles per hour). At a given time, a marathon runner passes the first one at twice his velocity. How much time passes til he passes the second walker?

We switch into the system which is positioned half way between the walkers again. Now they appear at rest. The velocity at which the runner runs, relative to that system, is obviously 3 miles per hour. Since the walkers are 3 miles apart, it takes him an hour to pass the second walker.

The velocity of the runner depends on the system you choose to observe. The speed of light doesnt depend on the system. ITs absolute

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Zaino

Does a "laser" beam stay a "laser" beam for ever or does it disperse?

If it does, I would also imagine the ship would shoot itself in the foot essentially traveling at the same speed as the laser, 1 bump into it and it would blow up the ship, I would assume.

Is there an additional propelling force in a laser beam beyond the speed of light? If it has no mass it cannot be propelled, so it would end up hitting the ship that shot it.

wayn3

Several questions:

1.) Does a laser beam disperse?

Yea, obviously. Laser is just tightly bundled light. Over time, it disperses. For the question, I just chose laser because its a common sci-fi weapon. Nothing special about it, comparing it to normal light.

2.) The ship cant travel at the speed of light. And the light doesnt get reflected back if thats what you mean. The laser widens, but it doesnt magically get reserved back into the ship.

Imagine light being radiated in a cone. In a laser, the opening angle of that cone is just really small.


3.) I take propel as an expression for some force being at work. That is not the case. Light travels at the speed of light because it does. Force is bound to mass, and light is massless, so theres no easyway to describe the mechanisms in terms of everyday stuff.

4.) If light cant be propelled, it would slow down.

Nope. A fundamental law of physics is the fact that you keep your velocity, UNLESS some force acts upon you. Since light is massless, and force depends on mass, lights direction and velocity can not be changed.

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tspesh

Mirrors?

greenleaves

100 light years.

The laser fired by 'behind craft' is 1 light year away. But the other craft is traveling at 99% the speed of light. So in 1 light year when the laser reaches the place where the 'ahead spacecraft' was, the ahead spacecraft will have already traveled another .99 light years. 1 light year latter; it will be .98, another light year latter .97 and so forth.

Of course, this is assuming you could 'point' a beam of light under the mentioned conditions.

Warning: I'm ignorant on the topic and this is just my best guess.

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If a trash collector can make 7 digits on this, you can too. To read more about this, view this bloomberg article.

Chianti

Apparently, if you dickrolled the crew of the second ship from the first ship, the aforementioned dick would rotate in slow motion.

wayn3

In a mirror, the following happens:

The photon arrives at the mirror, gives its energy to an electron, the electron gets excited (the photon ceases to exist here. Since it has no mass, the only reason it exists is because it contains kinetic energy). Couple nanoseconds later, the electron is done being excited and radiates a new photon in the opposite direction.

That way, you see the image somewhere else, but its not the original light.

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wayn3

Heres a new one:

You have a stick that reaches the sun. Assume the sun to be a rigid body, not some burning gas thing. The only physical aspect we are interested in is the relativistic length. The stick does especially not bend under gravitational forces or something.

Now you try to poke the sun with your stick. Does the sun get poked? If yes, how long does it take for the poke to arrive at the sun?

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zimok

A stick that reaches the sun from the Earth?

Ignoring all physical limitations, it would arrive instantly? Or, the time it takes you to push enough for the stick to touch the Sun depending on how far it was initially.

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poisonsembrace

It really makes you wonder if any of this real.

thelorax

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Kerkat

I thought the speed of light was the maximum speed anything was capable of so the missile wouldn't fire beyond the first spaceship.

Interesting question - Are you Sheldon?

BassHead

This shit hurts my brain. I hate knowing that the human race will NEVER know everything about the universe. This place that we live in is truly stranger than fiction when you think about it.

bobsoap

So in essence, the photon that arrives at the mirror is the 2nd one in the chain of reacting electrons?

- 1st photon gets emitted by the light source (eg a light bulb); it arrives on your skin
- an electron of an atom of a molecule of your skin picks up the photon, gets excited, eats the 1st photon, copies it and radiates a 2nd one
- this 2nd photon is the one that arrives at the mirror.

How long does this chain get? If the photon coming from the mirror (the 3rd one in this chain) hits your skin again, it causes a 4th reaction, or does it not? So the 4th photon gets sent back to the mirror again, and so on, in perpetuity.

Could one then conclude that what we see (both in a mirror and through our eyes) is not how it REALLY exists (not saying "how it looks"!), given that it's a copy of a copy of a copy? This is assuming that no copy can be 100% the same as the original, given various diffusing and distorting variables that are being introduced in the process.

tspesh

There is always Catholicism

(O_o)

so how many people are in the gay astrophysicist scene?

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lukep

Stick: Instantly or sooner if gravity can pull & stretch it.

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loxllxol

Wait, so why isn't this the correct answer? Seems logical to me.

papajohn56

yeah I have one - are you an actual astrophysicist, or someone with a bachelors

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papajohn56

wat? force does not depend on mass, and light's direction can be changed. you're trying to use Newton's laws...on a relativistic question. Stop it. I think I just answered my own question in the above post.

Strong gravity bends light *all the time*.

You also threw in their speeds like this even matters - since they're traveling at a constant speed, it does not. The only thing it would mean is relative to a stationary observer, a blue or red shift would occur depending on where the observer is.

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wayn3

You begin throwing in general relativity. And you are correct. But you cant introduce 5 strange new concepts at the same time. We will get there eventually. Historically, you go from classical mechanics to special relativity to general relativity, and we are at step two. Gravity bends light, but thats not due to "force". Its because gravity bends space-time.

I threw in their speeds because I wanted to show something cool, not because I thought it matters. That it doesnt matter has already been revealed. Do you want to challenge me on physics knowledge? We can talk theoretical physics if you want, but youd lack the very basics.


To answer your first question: Im not american, so our system is a bit different, but im definitely ahead of "bachelors" in your system. Im not a full time astrohphysicist if thats whats important to you, and thats because its a shitty job with very long hours and very shitty salary.



Just because we take a look at something relativistic doesnt mean that newtons laws dont apply anymore at all. You can make adjustments in the form of proportionality factors to them so that they still work.

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