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Old 03-16-2012, 10:30 AM   #51 (permalink)
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Hey bro's I have this free trial weight loss offer for you. It's awesome, you'll lose 20 pounds in 5 days and its a FREE TRIAL just pay shipping and handling.

*Your bank account may be charged periodically for excessive amounts*



In all seriousness fuck dieting, running is best.
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Old 03-16-2012, 10:41 AM   #52 (permalink)
 
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Old 03-16-2012, 10:43 AM   #53 (permalink)
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I eat a lot of bread, pasta and potatoes. I often have fried eggs and bacon for breakfast, I had 2 sandwiches for lunch, and at least 1 full fat latte every day. I ate a whole bag of doritos after my dinner tonight. I don't exercise apart from walking and I've actually lost 1kg since I last checked, I'm 62kg and 5'11. The only things I actively avoid are sugar, deep fried foods and soft drinks.

You might be thinking 'your cholesterol must be high', got it checked last week and it's:

LDL 2.2 nmol\L (the 'bad' one, reference range is <3.4)
HDL 2.3 nmol\L (the 'good' one, ref range is 0.9-2.2)

Giving me a total chol\HDL ratio of 2.1 which is fucken excellent. Somehow my good cholesterol is higher than my bad cholesterol.

The downside to my skinny genes is it's bloody hard to put on any muscle, I went to the gym for a year and only gained 2kg even though I was squatting and benching way above my body weight. My left knee sounds like velcro now too which is great.

My best mate put on 10kg of lean muscle in 8 months using ONE dumbell. Guy doesn't even have a bench, he lies on the floor and presses with one arm at a time. He doesn't take protein, doesn't eat 6 meals a day, doesn't do squats, doesn't do any of the typical gym bullshit you read everywhere. He lifts 2 hours a day, 6 days a week (overtraining is most likely complete bullshit too).

Genetics clearly have a massive influence, and just telling a fat guy to eat less is probably not going to make a lick of difference.
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Old 03-16-2012, 11:03 AM   #54 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by amateursurgeon View Post
Ok, an interesting critique of the China study here:

The Cornell China Project--Examining the Vegan Claims proj

tldr; is that people have overblown the findings. Because it was an ecological study, you can only use it to generate hypotheses, not validate them. The study authors acknowledged this, but others have ignored it.


The really interesting statement there is:

"Collaborative analysis of 5 large studies finds no difference in death rates from cancer, vegetarian vs. non-vegetarian." (although there was certainly a difference with heart disease).

That one surprises me.
Don't feel like digging more stuff up for you right now as far as the last statement goes or to counter it but try and keep in mind the source of information from both sides. That guy is pretty anti-veg since he completely failed at raw/veganism. Some info about the guy who probably wrote that article: Tom Billings: dietary failure
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Old 03-16-2012, 11:22 AM   #55 (permalink)
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What are your goals? The Atkins Diet was designed to help you lose weight, not to help you live longer.

Here's how I understand it from growing up in a household with a lot of emphasis on healthy eating (and a lot of knowledge on the subject).

Have:

Fish (Especially Salmon)
It's not that simple. A lot of farmed salmon is unacceptably high in Organochlorines (e.g. PCBs).

Global Assessment of Organic Contaminants in Farmed Salmon (I have the full journal article if anyone is interested)



Quote:

It should be pretty obvious that organic whole milk is worse for you than not organic skim milk, and organic beef is worse for you than not organic chicken.
Again, not necessarily. That's according to the lipid hypothesis, which is disputable.

Elsevier

The fat content of milk is very dependant on the animal's diet. Grass-fed beef produces different (and some say healthier) milk than corn-fed. Also, the demonisation of saturated fats is based on a huge oversimplification. There are a many different saturated fatty acids, which all affect the body differently.

It's interesting how many people in this thread equate diet with weight loss. Not sure if that's because you've all been slinging the berriez for too long, or something that's embedded in the western psyche. What you is about far more than your waist measurement.
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Old 03-16-2012, 12:01 PM   #56 (permalink)
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Again, pictures of the posters should be mandatory. Just like on bb...

If you don't look at good as you pretend to sound: tais toi

[and skinny fat doesn't count... just in case you feed your kids whatever they want]
That'd be pure ad hominem.
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Old 03-16-2012, 12:06 PM   #57 (permalink)
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What are your goals? The Atkins Diet was designed to help you lose weight, not to help you live longer.
That's not true at all anymore. I'm unsure about Atkins original intention but low-carbing your whole life for health is becoming more and more mainstream.
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Old 03-16-2012, 12:59 PM   #58 (permalink)
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What do you guys classify as healthy proteins? Is meat completely to abandon?

I've always contemplated going vegetarian because both heart disease and cancer are on my dad's side of the family (and they're all big time meat eaters)... but at the same time I also don't want to look like a wimp and want to keep some muscle and strength.

Do you think taking a protein/berry smoothie every day healthier/better than eating a lean piece of organic chicken/fish?
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Old 03-16-2012, 01:02 PM   #59 (permalink)
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I eat meat.
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Old 03-16-2012, 01:34 PM   #60 (permalink)
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What do you guys classify as healthy proteins? Is meat completely to abandon?

I've always contemplated going vegetarian because both heart disease and cancer are on my dad's side of the family (and they're all big time meat eaters)... but at the same time I also don't want to look like a wimp and want to keep some muscle and strength.

Do you think taking a protein/berry smoothie every day healthier/better than eating a lean piece of organic chicken/fish?
Here's the thing about nutrition - it's always changing. A new study comes out that says "insert food here" is good and not a year later another study comes out to say the food is actually harmful. When it all comes down to it, eat a variety of meats, seafood, and other protein sources and you'll be fine.

FYI, Meat doesn't cause heart disease. A lack of physical activity and poor diet (lots of processed foods) generally are the two culprits.
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Old 03-16-2012, 02:21 PM   #61 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avatar33 View Post
What do you guys classify as healthy proteins? Is meat completely to abandon?

I've always contemplated going vegetarian because both heart disease and cancer are on my dad's side of the family (and they're all big time meat eaters)... but at the same time I also don't want to look like a wimp and want to keep some muscle and strength.

Do you think taking a protein/berry smoothie every day healthier/better than eating a lean piece of organic chicken/fish?
Better? Not from a purely nutrient outlook. Personally? If I can meet my dietary requirements without supporting the bastardized farming industry machine I will. You would be surprised at the amount of protein that chia seeds, hemp hearts, chic peas, quinoa (keen-wa) have. 4 tablespoons of hemp hearts has 15g of protein and a 3-1 ratio of omega 6 to omega 3 (link). I sprinkle that shit on whatever I'm eating and don't even notice it. Because I am a vegan (sort of, I'm a salmon fisherman and eat what I catch) I use nutritional yeast to get my B vitamins which usually only come from animals.

I choose organic, non genetically modified produce because A) I don't want to consume mass amounts of pesticides (especially when making juice or anything that concentrates), and B) who the fuck knows what chain reactions occur when you mess with the genetic sequence of a plant/animal. If I can taste the difference between GMO and non GMO, there is a difference structurally.

Diet for me is a mix of personal beliefs, and knowledge of proper nutrition. I tried to go veggie when I was younger but didn't have the knowledge and felt weak and tired all the time.
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Old 03-16-2012, 02:21 PM   #62 (permalink)
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@Jeffrey meat (especially red) has certainly been linked to both heart disease and cancer.

I eat meat. I love meat. But at the same time I know that I would probably be better off eating less of it, or not eating it at all.

It is clear that we humans are not anatomically designed to eat meat (or at least very little of it). Our teeth structure is more similar to herbivores like cows or horses, than to omnivores/carnivores.



1 - Human
2 - Cow
3 - Cat
4 - Dog
5 - Horse
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Old 03-16-2012, 03:08 PM   #63 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by jeffrey View Post
Here's the thing about nutrition - it's always changing. A new study comes out that says "insert food here" is good and not a year later another study comes out to say the food is actually harmful. When it all comes down to it, eat a variety of meats, seafood, and other protein sources and you'll be fine.

FYI, Meat doesn't cause heart disease. A lack of physical activity and poor diet (lots of processed foods) generally are the two culprits.
This. I have a feeling that the truth is going to be that there is an interplay between genetics and what correct nutrition is, but we're not there yet.

For example - the statement "exercise to lose weight" isn't as valid as it would seem. It works better for some than others. For "non-responders", they would be far better focussing on diet than exercise.

There has been some interesting work linking certain genes to exercise response:

Fine mapping of a QTL on chromosome 13 fo... [Eur J Appl Physiol. 2011] - PubMed - NCBI
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22174390
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Old 03-16-2012, 03:46 PM   #64 (permalink)
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This. I have a feeling that the truth is going to be that there is an interplay between genetics and what correct nutrition is, but we're not there yet.
Also agree, although I think we're pretty much there. We can all agree that bad food is bad (i.e. processed shit). However, that's not going to affect everyone the same way, much like say, smoking.

Someone can smoke all their lives and never get cancer. Others who are prone to it will get it after 20 years (for example).

The same with junk food. Some are very lucky and resistant to its negative effects while others (the majority of the population it seems) is susceptible.

But at the end of the day, junk food is dangerous, much like smoking. And whether it negatively affects you or not (or to whatever degree) you'd be well served to stay clear of it.

With that said, if you can stick to whole foods and severely restrict things that aren't found in nature, you'll be more than OK. The rest are just details for us to argue over. After all, everyone has their preconceived notions (I certainly do).
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Old 03-16-2012, 05:21 PM   #65 (permalink)
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It's shit like this that makes everyone so fucking confused about nutrition:

New Clues to Link Between Fatty Diet, Colon Cancer - Yahoo! News

Quote:
Cancer cells "love" insulin and studies have shown that tumors feed off insulin, Sapienza noted.
Now after reading that, ask yourself: what spikes insulin: fat or carbs?
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Old 03-16-2012, 05:59 PM   #66 (permalink)
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It's shit like this that makes everyone so fucking confused about nutrition:

New Clues to Link Between Fatty Diet, Colon Cancer - Yahoo! News



Now after reading that, ask yourself: what spikes insulin: fat or carbs?
I'm seriously too lazy to start digging up info for this thread due to all the energy I spent in all the other food threads arguing with people who brought zero science to the table and pulled random myths out of their ass.

But for the above statement, if you're trying to say that carbs cause insulin spikes - here's some things you can use a starting point if you want to investigate this further. The issue is NOT carbs, it's the combinations of carbs WITH a high fat intake. I'm not trying to argue anything here just offering you a starting point for further research if this interests you


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Old 03-16-2012, 06:43 PM   #67 (permalink)
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What do you guys classify as healthy proteins?
Egg protein is the closest out there to mother's milk. I stick with eggs and vegetable protein. Not soy.

One good general diet indicator to go by is the balance of alkalinity & acidity in your overall diet. A healthy human body has slightly alkaline blood. Nutshell, some foods pitch blood toward acidity, others toward alkalinity, and 'acidic' foods do not mean acidic blood. Just the opposite a lot of the time.

Meat, coffee, refined sugar and beer are the most common heavy duty acidity forming foods in the popular diet. Grains are acidity forming but substantially less so than those.

Interesting about eating meat, dairy & eggs, when you eat an acidity causing food your body compensates by dumping an alkalizer to balance. And the most popular place it sources this balance is from bone calcium. So all that good stuff you hear about eating meat and drinking milk for healthy bones, yeah. And your body does a better job synthesizing calcium and getting it from vegetables than getting it from dairy anyway.

Cancer and fungus and parasites and other nasty shit that makes you sick and die, they like acidic living environments and don't do well in alkaline environments. In fact there are reports of people blasting tumors with IVs of (alkaline) baking soda solution and dispersing the cancerous growths. If an oncologist is worth their weight in salt they'll put every patient on a vegan diet. Anyway stay alkaline.

Oh and the healthiest diet is really a personal thing, unique to the individual. What's healthy for one person may not work at all for another. Body chemistries differ, lifestyles differ, etc. Diets are like unique and beautiful snowflakes.

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Old 03-16-2012, 07:08 PM   #68 (permalink)
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^MST, thanks for the info broski. I guess that's why some natural health freaks recommend drinkin lemon water in the morning on an empty stomach. Lemon Water - Alkalising Superstar
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Old 03-16-2012, 07:10 PM   #69 (permalink)
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I'm seriously too lazy to start digging up info for this thread due to all the energy I spent in all the other food threads arguing with people who brought zero science to the table and pulled random myths out of their ass.

But for the above statement, if you're trying to say that carbs cause insulin spikes - here's some things you can use a starting point if you want to investigate this further. The issue is NOT carbs, it's the combinations of carbs WITH a high fat intake. I'm not trying to argue anything here just offering you a starting point for further research if this interests you

How to Become Diabetic in Six Hours - YouTube

Diabetes explained - YouTube
There's some serious junk science going on in those videos.

The 1st one "How to be diabetic in 6 hours" doesn't show any diabetes, it shows elevated blood triglyceride and sugar levels. An accurate title would be "Eating fat and sugar increases fat and sugar levels in your blood." You need to test plasma glucose concentration after period of fasting to show anything meaningful.

The 2nd one starts off with a nice basic explanation of how Insulin works, but then veers off into nonsense territory. Fat blocks insulin receptors? What's the mechanism for that, exactly? Long chain fatty acids are non-polar, and insulin is polar, so how would fat act as a ligand for an insulin receptor?

@MS Teacher, I'm not going to comment on the acid/alkaline thing here other than to say I've yet to be convinced about it, but I did want to say one thing... I've seen a lot of people compare things to mother's milk. But here's the thing. Mother's milk is the perfect food for babies. Doesn't mean it's right for adults.

Egg is a complete protein source though, and very well-absorbed
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Old 03-16-2012, 07:16 PM   #70 (permalink)
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One good general diet indicator to go by is the balance of alkalinity & acidity in your overall diet. A healthy human body has slightly alkaline blood. Nutshell, some foods pitch blood toward acidity, others toward alkalinity, and 'acidic' foods do not mean acidic blood. Just the opposite a lot of the time.
That sounds like a load of complete fucken bullshit. Everything you eat passes through your stomach first, which is extremely acidic.

The alkaline\acidic diet theory has never been proven, and it's always alternative medicine schmucks promoting it.
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Old 03-16-2012, 07:20 PM   #71 (permalink)
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if you're trying to say that carbs cause insulin spikes - here's some things you can use a starting point if you want to investigate this further.
Thanks for the links dude, but I'm a former diabesity researcher so I already got a pretty "good" grasp on how these things work. And yes, carbs cause an insulin spike.
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Old 03-16-2012, 07:22 PM   #72 (permalink)
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Old 03-16-2012, 07:31 PM   #73 (permalink)
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@Jeffrey meat (especially red) has certainly been linked to both heart disease and cancer.

I eat meat. I love meat. But at the same time I know that I would probably be better off eating less of it, or not eating it at all.

It is clear that we humans are not anatomically designed to eat meat (or at least very little of it). Our teeth structure is more similar to herbivores like cows or horses, than to omnivores/carnivores.



1 - Human
2 - Cow
3 - Cat
4 - Dog
5 - Horse

We've been eating meat for thousands of years. I'd say our bodies have adapted to meats at least somewhat over the course of this time period. With that being said, I don't eat a lot of red meat, but I do have the luxury of having one of the largest organic chicken plants in the country within 20 minutes of me. Organic eggs+ organic chicken + local grown produce = win.
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Old 03-16-2012, 07:36 PM   #74 (permalink)
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^if our bodies did adapt to it, how come our jaw structure didn't evolve to look more like an omnivore/carnivore?
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Old 03-16-2012, 07:42 PM   #75 (permalink)
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Mother's milk is the perfect food for babies. Doesn't mean it's right for adults.

Egg is a complete protein source though, and very well-absorbed
True enough. I guess a better conjecture is whatever your age it's probably best to mimic mother's milk when choosing an animal protein because it's intraspecific, regardless of when in the growth cycle it's used.

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The alkaline\acidic diet theory has never been proven, and it's always alternative medicine schmucks promoting it.
I know right? Alternative medicine doesn't have anything good to contribute. Personally when I look for health information I make sure my source has a powerful lobby behind it and is endorsed by at least one multinational pharmaceutical company.
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Old 03-16-2012, 08:36 PM   #76 (permalink)
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Why are people posting youtube videos and blogs? That's all anecdotal, the original post clearly said peer reviewed studies.
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Old 03-16-2012, 08:40 PM   #77 (permalink)
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^if our bodies did adapt to it, how come our jaw structure didn't evolve to look more like an omnivore/carnivore?
I meant our digestive system.
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Old 03-17-2012, 12:24 AM   #78 (permalink)
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So..... what constitutes a healthy diet?
According to WildGunner, a "healthy diet" (pertaining to food) is a nutrient rich and balanced food regimen that evolves with time based on the information gathered and results obtained from the foods that you do or do not eat. It contains primarily natural foods freed of as many deleterious chemicals as possible and is usually supplemented with routine exercise.

Personally this means:
  • Hitting the gym or exercising a few times a week.
  • Buying mostly organic and local produce.
  • Essentially no packaged "foods" in the fridge unless homemade or "artisan"
  • Constantly reviewing and updating knowledge and information on the subject of health and wellness.
  • More vegetables and less of everything else.
  • Knowing the difference between being truly hungry, just wanting to munch and eating too much.
  • Drinking the appropriate amount of water.

There are various stages of "healthy" based on knowledge, desire, openness, mindset, "culture" and ability. Personally, what constituted healthy has evolved over time and gladly so.

The key thing learned on this journey so far is to be willing to adjust eating habits based on the information and research despite how you "feel" about it and not trying to find some other validating source to keep you where you are comfortable when something comes up that goes against what you like.

Admittedly sometimes it sucks, but prevention is better than disease, sickness or ailments after the fact, should something occur because of poor dietary habits.
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Old 03-17-2012, 12:28 AM   #79 (permalink)
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Dwight Shrute you are a discrace to human existence there should be one word and one word only that you state...

B E E T S !!!!!!!!!!!!





BEARS.BEETS.BEARS EAT BEETS.
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Old 03-17-2012, 12:32 AM   #80 (permalink)
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ok ok i will unbastardize your thread sorry about that.

anyway i stick by a few rules:
  • organic whenever possible
  • eat vegetables and fruits at least one of every color once a day
  • half gallon of water per day
  • red meat 2-5 times per week max, but mandatory
  • animal protein at ever meal
  • small meals 5 times a day
  • tons of fiber in the form of veggies and wheat
  • avoid any food that is white including white sugar, white bread and white rice etc etc

so i am not nearly on the level of you guys as far as the science behind things but i do read and have reasons for everything. i am also really into juicing/blending recently DAMN it just makes you feel good a nice spinach/carrot/strawberry with whey shake. MMMUMPH.


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Old 03-17-2012, 12:35 AM   #81 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by avatar33 View Post
@Jeffrey meat (especially red) has certainly been linked to both heart disease and cancer.

I eat meat. I love meat. But at the same time I know that I would probably be better off eating less of it, or not eating it at all.

It is clear that we humans are not anatomically designed to eat meat (or at least very little of it). Our teeth structure is more similar to herbivores like cows or horses, than to omnivores/carnivores.



1 - Human
2 - Cow
3 - Cat
4 - Dog
5 - Horse
How do you get that our structure is more similar to herbivores than to carnivores? Humans structure looks nothing like either. Apples and oranges.
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Old 03-17-2012, 12:47 AM   #82 (permalink)
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I think that's a difficult question to answer. If given the choice between organic and not organic I think you'd be foolish not to eat organic foods. There are lots of chemicals that we only fully understand decades after they've been introduced into food and if I have both options I'd rather not take my chances. With that being said, organic doesn't mean healthy. It should be pretty obvious that organic whole milk is worse for you than not organic skim milk, and organic beef is worse for you than not organic chicken.

Organic is probably better than not organic, but organic doesn't mean healthy. A cigarette can be all natural and organic too but that doesn't mean it's good for you.
What chemicals are you talking about then? You do realize organic farmers use certain chemical pesticides too, right? They're just "USDA Organic permitted" pesticides - i.e. they cannot be synthetic, but if they're pulled from something else they're fine. There are a lot of things that are natural that are dangerous chemicals that can kill you.

It's the same fear mongering about GMO foods, there are no credible studies showing GM foods are less safe or more harmful.

On top of that, if organic farming were used more widespread, it wouldn't be able to support the full population of the planet.

http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/...l-agriculture/

Freakonomics The Cost of Eating Organic Food; or: Will E. Coli Increase Our Appetite for Irradiated Food?

http://www.freakonomics.com/2011/06/...the-groceries/
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Old 03-17-2012, 12:52 AM   #83 (permalink)
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Old 03-17-2012, 12:53 AM   #84 (permalink)
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This is an "organic pesticide", and very widely used:

Rotenone - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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Old 03-17-2012, 01:18 AM   #85 (permalink)
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It's the same fear mongering about GMO foods, there are no credible studies showing GM foods are less safe or more harmful.
If you sincerely believe that then I strongly urge you to read either or both of these books.

Amazon.com: Jeffrey M. Smith: Books, Biography, Blog, Audiobooks, Kindle
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Old 03-17-2012, 01:33 AM   #86 (permalink)
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Why would this be obvious? What are you basing this on? And do you know anything about omega-6 vs. omega-3 fats and the very high ratio of the former to the latter (i.e. pro-inflammatory) in conventionally grown animals?
Unless I've misunderstood your point (completely possible) aren't you agreeing with me?

Skim milk has no omega-6 vs. omega-3 and whole milk has a lot of them.

I'd take no saturated fat over no growth hormones fed to the cow any day. One has proven negative side effects that are very well understood and one of them doesn't.

And likewise I'd take factory chicken over free range organic red meat (regardless of how 'natural' the cow was treated, red meat still is very very unhealthy for you).

Now of course all other things being equal there's no reason not to choose organic over not organic if everything else is the same.


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It's not that simple. A lot of farmed salmon is unacceptably high in Organochlorines (e.g. PCBs).

Global Assessment of Organic Contaminants in Farmed Salmon (I have the full journal article if anyone is interested)





Again, not necessarily. That's according to the lipid hypothesis, which is disputable.

Elsevier

The fat content of milk is very dependant on the animal's diet. Grass-fed beef produces different (and some say healthier) milk than corn-fed. Also, the demonisation of saturated fats is based on a huge oversimplification. There are a many different saturated fatty acids, which all affect the body differently.

It's interesting how many people in this thread equate diet with weight loss. Not sure if that's because you've all been slinging the berriez for too long, or something that's embedded in the western psyche. What you is about far more than your waist measurement.
Appreciate the information. Would wild range salmon be ok?

Regarding the types of saturated fats, is there anyway to find out which foods have different amounts of the different types of saturated fats? There's no way for me at the supermarket to tell if the saturated fat in question is good or bad, so in general I try to avoid it. I'd much rather get my fats from nuts/fish where you know the fat is the good type of fat.

And are you saying that in some instances whole milk (depending on the type of fat) is better for you than skim milk?



Not so much interested in arguing/debating as I am interested in learning, as I really don't want to die
So I appreciate the thread and the facts and data you are trying to bring to it.




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What chemicals are you talking about then? You do realize organic farmers use certain chemical pesticides too, right? They're just "USDA Organic permitted" pesticides - i.e. they cannot be synthetic, but if they're pulled from something else they're fine. There are a lot of things that are natural that are dangerous chemicals that can kill you.

It's the same fear mongering about GMO foods, there are no credible studies showing GM foods are less safe or more harmful.

On top of that, if organic farming were used more widespread, it wouldn't be able to support the full population of the planet.

http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/...l-agriculture/

Freakonomics The Cost of Eating Organic Food; or: Will E. Coli Increase Our Appetite for Irradiated Food?

http://www.freakonomics.com/2011/06/...the-groceries/
If you have the choice between organic milk and not organic milk (everything else about the milk is the same) are you saying that you would choose the not organic milk?

I don't think GMOs are bad; I think GMOs and factory farming will likely solve world hunger. However, being lucky enough to be able to afford to spend a little extra money to have something organic (when everything else about the food is the same) I see no reason not to.
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Old 03-17-2012, 01:56 PM   #87 (permalink)
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On top of that, if organic farming were used more widespread, it wouldn't be able to support the full population of the planet.
I wonder if Americans actually ate right and didnt waste 1/3 of each of their meals if it would be possible that natural farming practices could feed everyone.
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Old 03-17-2012, 02:02 PM   #88 (permalink)
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I wonder if Americans actually ate right and didnt waste 1/3 of each of their meals if it would be possible that natural farming practices could feed everyone.
Have you seen Americans lately? I'm pretty sure we aren't wasting 1/3 of our food.
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Old 03-17-2012, 02:03 PM   #89 (permalink)
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I wonder if Americans actually ate right and didnt waste 1/3 of each of their meals if it would be possible that natural farming practices could feed everyone.
Hunger and food are not about the availability of resources as much as they are politics, control and greed. More food is destroyed than consumed than people are aware.
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Old 03-18-2012, 11:26 AM   #90 (permalink)
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I know right? Alternative medicine doesn't have anything good to contribute. Personally when I look for health information I make sure my source has a powerful lobby behind it and is endorsed by at least one multinational pharmaceutical company.
Personally I like to see actual results. I watched my mother waste her money and time on acupuncture and bullshit Chinese herbal remedies for her eye condition 'blepharospasm', which Western medicine has no cure for. The only treatment is botox injections to relax the muscles. No alternative remedy worked of course, but they still happily took her money and promised it would help if she had acupuncture twice a week.

Then I watched my grandfather go through the same thing for his issues, surprise surprise nothing helped. Sure they might be able to diagnose things that western medicine overlooks, but the treatments are bologna. They also sell false promises which is even worse than what pharmaceutical companies do, at least their drugs work.

Remember, alternative medicine killed Steve Jobs.
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Old 03-18-2012, 12:09 PM   #91 (permalink)
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I hear that. Interesting how much experience shapes beliefs, it's been different for me. My grandfather went in for a checkup, they found a couple small tumors, not very aggressive, did the whole radiation/chemo/drugs thing, he was dead in two weeks.

My father has had insomnia for most of his life, tried everything under the sun. Went to a naturopath for three sessions, first two she asked him a million questions, third she gave him a variety of herbs and supplements to use in various ways. He sleeps like a baby.

My brother fucked up his wrist and it bothered him for like three years. Tried everything. Went to a naturopath who tweaked his diet, recommended supplements & lifestyle changes. Combined that with a sports trainer and he was good to go three months later.

I know they're just anecdotes but as you said it's about the results. I've had good results personally with alternative approaches to health and wellness. Then again there's a place for everything, if drugs/surgery/bone setting is in the cards I'm not calling my naturopath.
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Old 03-18-2012, 12:36 PM   #92 (permalink)
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I hear that. Interesting how much experience shapes beliefs, it's been different for me. My grandfather went in for a checkup, they found a couple small tumors, not very aggressive, did the whole radiation/chemo/drugs thing, he was dead in two weeks.

My father has had insomnia for most of his life, tried everything under the sun. Went to a naturopath for three sessions, first two she asked him a million questions, third she gave him a variety of herbs and supplements to use in various ways. He sleeps like a baby.

My brother fucked up his wrist and it bothered him for like three years. Tried everything. Went to a naturopath who tweaked his diet, recommended supplements & lifestyle changes. Combined that with a sports trainer and he was good to go three months later.

I know they're just anecdotes but as you said it's about the results. I've had good results personally with alternative approaches to health and wellness. Then again there's a place for everything, if drugs/surgery/bone setting is in the cards I'm not calling my naturopath.
Anecdotes about medicine are no more valuable than me saying "I had a headache, but then I ate a can of baked beans. The next day I didn't have a headache. BAKED BEANS CURE HEADACHES."

Surely a double blind test would be a reasonable way of testing the efficacy of homeopathy etc?

Homeopathic treatment of plantar warts. [CMAJ. 1992] - PubMed - NCBI
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21784327
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Old 03-18-2012, 02:33 PM   #93 (permalink)
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Personally I like to see actual results. I watched my mother waste her money and time on acupuncture and bullshit Chinese herbal remedies for her eye condition 'blepharospasm', which Western medicine has no cure for. The only treatment is botox injections to relax the muscles. No alternative remedy worked of course, but they still happily took her money and promised it would help if she had acupuncture twice a week.

Then I watched my grandfather go through the same thing for his issues, surprise surprise nothing helped. Sure they might be able to diagnose things that western medicine overlooks, but the treatments are bologna. They also sell false promises which is even worse than what pharmaceutical companies do, at least their drugs work.

Remember, alternative medicine killed Steve Jobs.
Why did Steve Jobs die?
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Old 03-18-2012, 03:11 PM   #94 (permalink)
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Have you seen Americans lately? I'm pretty sure we aren't wasting 1/3 of our food.
Even with obesity, Americans still waste a ton of food. Go to any restaurant and ask the manager how much food is tossed out.
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Old 03-18-2012, 07:17 PM   #95 (permalink)
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I wonder if Americans actually ate right and didnt waste 1/3 of each of their meals if it would be possible that natural farming practices could feed everyone.
Americans make up less than 10% of the world, and these calculations are based on global population.
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Old 03-18-2012, 07:20 PM   #96 (permalink)
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If you have the choice between organic milk and not organic milk (everything else about the milk is the same) are you saying that you would choose the not organic milk?

I don't think GMOs are bad; I think GMOs and factory farming will likely solve world hunger. However, being lucky enough to be able to afford to spend a little extra money to have something organic (when everything else about the food is the same) I see no reason not to.
Yes and I routinely do choose non-organic. I've never bought organic milk. Why should I? It costs more with absolutely no verifiable benefits. It has to be pasteurized too, so the argument of "more nutrients not cooked off" is void. It's not raw milk.
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Old 03-18-2012, 07:50 PM   #97 (permalink)
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This guy is ANNOYING
A. He repeats himself constantly
B. He is making assumptions based on second hand information from non medical sources.
C. He is not privy to any of the medical records and he is assuming the doctors that treated him made the wrong Dx several times. So without examining the patient, taking a history of the patient, reading all of the tests, blood work, MRI (or even a simple x-ray which would show stones), he thinks he is smarter than the treating doctors. Also when a patient is suspected of having kidney stones they make the Pt piss through a strainer to capture the stone so they can determine the composition.
D. He says Sonometer and not centimeter Jesus Christ I hate that shit. Saying it incorrectly, even if it is common, makes you a moron.
E. Animal protein does not make you susceptible to kidney stones. Not having access to his records he does not even know what kind of stone he had.
National Kidney Foundation: A to Z Health Guide Item
F. I have to stop listening I do not even know what is point is but he is a moron who is GUESSING his way to some conclusion based on second hand word of mouth comments and his half assed medical knowledge. He is talking to lay people so he is getting away with it. If he were in front of other docs they would be throwing tomatoes at him.
To save everyone 40 min of their lives.
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Even craziest I find out that EWA plays penis games, they try to hit smokes with penises looking objects ... I don't know what companies do these things??? I not even make these things up, it is really crazy "professionals company" idk

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Old 03-18-2012, 07:52 PM   #98 (permalink)
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Even with obesity, Americans still waste a ton of food. Go to any restaurant and ask the manager how much food is tossed out.
You ever think that's because the average restaurant gives you two times more than you need? I can generally get 2 meals out of what ever I order.
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Even craziest I find out that EWA plays penis games, they try to hit smokes with penises looking objects ... I don't know what companies do these things??? I not even make these things up, it is really crazy "professionals company" idk

EWA penis games video
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Old 03-18-2012, 08:15 PM   #99 (permalink)
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I think diet is hugely individual. Because of the pc stuff about race we don't look at the fact that there are significant biological differences in race. Asians are for example much smaller on average and have more flexible hamstrings which allow them to squat in ways white people can't. Try doing a flat footed squat if you don't believe me.

Anyway, that was just a point. For many years scientists thought the mediterranean diet was the healthiest high in the good fats. But obviously the Japanese diet seems to work for them and they eat a lot of rice.

But the commonality is a focus on fresh, unprocessed produce and strict standards of food quality (kobe beef or parma ham for example). Where as where people live the shortest Northern Europe and America, we stuff our faces with everything without regard to what it is. The food we eat is very far from the actual source. I think is important to keep in mind.

When you eat unprocessed food or raw food your body responds to it and you feel full when you're actually full. When you eat processed crap, there are so many additives it fools your body into either craving more or feeling full when you haven't gotten your nutrients.

I would think that if you stuck to eating your ethnicities traditional raw, fresh food you would do ok, but stay away from the 1800 century peasent food low in protein.

That's just my wild speculation just as invalid as everyone elses.
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Old 03-18-2012, 08:20 PM   #100 (permalink)
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^if our bodies did adapt to it, how come our jaw structure didn't evolve to look more like an omnivore/carnivore?
Because we don't hunt with our fucking mouth?
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