ubaidabcd

How is it that after testing campaign after campaign, in the last few months, probably 20-30 campaigns I found one that's profitable? It isn't going to last forever, and I'd like to be making much more than what I am right now. I'm continously trying to start new campaigns, get a sale here and there, break even, or start losing. There has to be something wrong in my method, since I hear of people saying things like, they like competition and like to get in a saturated niche and take over, etc..etc.. See, I would like to know what I am doing, and what I need to do to make a campaign successful, instead of just taking a chance with "testing" a campaign and hope that I'll get lucky, like I'm gambling.

This is how I'm currently doing things:

I'll browse an affiliate network, find an offer, I'll research some numbers (searches per month, competitors, average keyword costs, etc.. and go with something that I believe is unsaturated and would be able to afford the keywords)

Then start up Keyword Elite and create a few thousand keywords to start with. Start a campaign on Yahoo, then just delete keywords from my campaign that aren't relative or bringing non-converting traffic. All of my keywords are at minimum bids (yahoo).

I don't use landing pages with campaigns I'm testing out in the beginning. I don't see why I should spend money on something just to test and then it doesn't perform. That campaign that I have that was referring to above, it doesn't do well with a landing page, but does well if I send traffic directly to the merchant.

Should I be concentrating more on keywords? Whenever I raise bids on keywords I end up losing, so I don't bid higher than the minimum bid. In the beginning I tried to create my own keywords, and use phrase builders and what-not, but that didn't help. I'll even mess up a profitable campaign if I mess with anything after I've started it.

Maybe I should try a saturated niche? I've heard of people say, if it's saturated then you know it's making money. Then you also have people that sarcastically advise, "ringtones, dating, mortgage, pharm" to noobs. I tried adult when I first got into affiliate marketing and didn't making anything at all.

Some questions:

When you first start a campaign, do you start losing in the beginning until you start seeing which keywords are converting?
How much do you let yourself lose? Is it the amount of the payout?
Do you not care (to a certain extent) how much you lose until you find out how to get the campaign profitable?
Do you always bid as high as you can on converting keywords and get rid of everything else?
Do you ever only find 1 keyword in your entire campaign that's converting? Do you think I should put some money into a campaign when I first start it to find converting keywords? Instead of the method above where I create a few thousand keywords at minimum bid? They are at minimum bid probably for a reason right? Nobody is bidding on them since the conversions are probably weak. Usually I'll give a campaign about to the payout amount to convert, if it doesn't then I'll start thinking twice (this reminds me of the gambling scenario I mentioned). So instead, maybe I should take a couple hundred dollars raise my bids really high just to find a couple converting keywords. Opposite of my current method I'm using now of many keywords, min. bid. Instead less keywords, and higher bids?

I have to change something since my method isn't working well, I don't think I should be going through so many campaigns that aren't performing, since these are all on networks and there are people making money from them. Seems "thinking outside of the box" really applies to affiliate marketing. Some people say the only reason you can't be successful in affiliate marketing is if you quit, but in reality it can't be that simple or everybody would be doing it. I think my lack of creativity is what's keeping me from making serious money.

imagenesis

You suck, go die.

ubaidabcd

Think I'll just start drinking early tonight.


Thanks

nachoninja

“Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

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ubaidabcd

Technically, I'm not doing the EXACT same thing over and over since I'm trying my method on a new offer/niche every time.

productionhead

fuck PPC and become a hacker

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illkity

Not sure about Yahoo, but if I was doing Google I'd only have maybe 5 keywords per adgroup. Sounds like you are trying to jam too many keywords into one group. Think tight, like a virgin. This applies to search network traffic.

Content network is a completely different story...

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ubaidabcd

Well, I have some plans for YACG sites, I'll see how that goes. I like PPC instead of SEO due to the quick traffic. SEO is long term, and I'm not a patient person, but I might not have any other options.

ubaidabcd

What do you think about nichebot?

As for keywords are you only choosing the highest traffic keywords? How do you decide out of all the keywords out there which ones you're going to choose? Do you just test each one to see if it converts or not?

maximus

1. 8 out of 10 campaigns start out losing money for me and get dropped quickly. If something's going to work, it usually starts out breaking even, give or take a little in one direction. This is because you will lose money with some adgroups while make money with others. Pause the adgroups that don't convert any leads/sales. Start optimizing the adgroups that convert, even if they lose you money initially. You can often times turn those around.

2. I am willing to lose 50 - 250 in test each campaign depending on how much potential I see in it. For example, I started a campaign a month ago and lost money for the first 3 weeks but kept optimizing and testing. Then I had a few days of breaking even and finally this last week, it's seeing a 250% ROI.

3. If your keywords are converting but you're not getting volume, then yes bid higher (Keep in mind that won't always work and you'll just have to settle for a profitable campaign that you can't get volume to). Or add more similar keywords based on the keyword tool or the 3rd party tool you use.

4. No don't put aside a bunch of money just to find converting keywords out of the thousands you throw at the campaign. You're better off tightening up your keywords and starting with 50-100 words at first. Your adgroups should be separated well so when you see which adgroups are working, just add very similar words to that group.

I also suggest you test with adwords, not only yahoo.

illkity

I like it, works well for what I need to do. I actually use the free tools way more than the paid so I have plenty of KD and WT credits. Just for managing KW lists it's great. Try it out only $1 for 7 days. :-)

Truthfully I don't do much PPC, but when I do it's mostly content network. And my landing pages are established sites. So for the content network I just shove a thousand KW into an adgroup. If I'm doing search network then I'll go for medium to high traffic words and put them in tight groups.

for example:

blue balls
big blue balls
blue ball
big blue ball

how can i get laid
how do i get laid
can i get laid
how to get laid

If your using KW insertion you might be able to get away with larger groups. Point is make you ads tightly relevant to your KW. Don't forget your broad and exact matches too.

Another reason I don't do much PPC is I can't get the google desktop KW tool to work on my PC. Not sure if it's a firewall thing or not, can't get proxy to work. This tool makes managing your campaigns much easier.

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ubaidabcd

Thanks for the quality post and answering my questions.

Karnul

You've GOT to test your landing pages and ads too.

Buy one catch-all domain - then create landing pages on a back page.

so...

1. Get an assload of keywords. Use your head here - think long and hard about any related keywords that the keyword tools didn't spit out.

Weed out the garbage, watch the click-through, conversion rate, and cost per sale.

2. Create a few ads. Test test test for the best ones on click-through and closing rate. Go with 3 separate ad concepts - when you have a winner, make small changes to it, test and repeat, test and repeat.

3. Use the stock landing page...but also make a pushy asshat page...and a soft sell page. Which one is best? Make small changes to the winner and keep testing.

=====================

You should end up with at least a few keywords generating positive income. If it's not great, move on...but let it run.

I tend to bid cheap on keywords. I want the bargains. 5 to 1 or better ROI is my goal.

=====================

This all comes down to work. It's work. It's not fun. Work harder, test more, and use some creativity. Most campaigns can generate a little positive income if you tinker enough. Once in while you'll find a real winner.

=====================

Keep in mind: If you do what everyone else is doing: 1. using stock landing page 2. bidding on same keywords 3. setting and forgetting --> you're fucked. Do more than everyone else, out work them, out think them.

ubaidabcd

Well, I started to regret making this post initially with some of the comments and was going to edit my post. I like the quality replies I've got in this thread.

@ Karnul - Yeah, I haven't been really testing my landing pages since I'm not really good at designing. I just have basic HTML skills. If I get a landing page created from somebody else then there's not much anything I can do, except order another. This is how I usually like sending people directly to the offer, but it makes sense if everybody is using the same landing page, you're not going to stand out and it's going to effect sales.

You're right about not being fun, in the beginning I was all hyped up (counting $$$ in my brain, trying to sound all smart, talking about conversions, ROI's and what-not LOL), but it turns out it requires so much work. Even with campaigns that I'm profiting from, it takes me forever to work on them and just monitor the keywords to see how they're doing. I open up my PPC account and it's just, "BLAM!!!" all this shit you gotta tweak and test consistently. So many variables involved, dont know where to begin, just gotta keep working trying to do a million things at once.

Not to mention, recently I found about how much taxes I'll be owing, 30% of my income? What the hell that's insanse, my cost of living just about got in half! Now, I'm making less than what I would if I had job in my field!

I'm starting to think having a mindless *real* job would be easier. Although I realize that I have to continue working at this since there is money in affiliate marketing and I can't quit, the long term reward is much higher. Your comment in your avatar applies to me, "Learning Hurts My Brain".

Iphone

unaabcd, why not try to rank in google so you don't have to spend money on advertising? Free traffic is always a good thing.

Karnul

A mindless "real" job is ALWAYS the easy road.

But...despite the often frustrating process of constant learning. This can be a rewarding career/business choice.

I particularly like:

1. The changing subject matter. Bored with shoes? Try some music sites. Jump on any topic you like, whenever you want. They all have some sort of marketing potential.

2. Make your own hours. Yeah, you better make them LONG -- but it's nice to know I can duck out for lunch and a movie when everyone else is stuck in the 9 to 5's. I like knowing I CAN do it, but usually I just work 18 hours a day.

3. Once you hit it, the money is pretty sweet. Those 5 digit checks still excite me. I haven't gotten a 6 digit one yet, but maybe soon =)

=================

Professional landing pages are a great way to go. Get a design or two, or three --- but try to have them done so that you can change the ad copy. The ad copy is the single most important element of your landing pages.

I'm kind of a dumbass, so I try to stick with learning the stuff that generates the fastest progress. I would recommend you learn:

(in order of what I deem important)

1. Testing. You have to either code or use free tools or buy tools to split test everything. You can't run different versions at different times, gotta be done simultaneously. Monday and Tuesday can be totally different for sales, hell... Early Monday morning can be totally different than mid-morning. I bought a php script for split testing - but as I said before, I'm kind of a dumbass.

Testing first because everything else can evolve as a result of the tested results.

2. How to write good sales copy. Learn the hard sell, learn the soft sell, learn the information based sale, learn the 'review' sale, learn the forthright sell (example: "this is my affiliate link:" buy my shit). I usually run with 3 different concepts for ads and for my sales copy. One technique usually stands out above the rest.

3. Adwords. Know it inside and out. I read a book I bought at Barnes & Noble -- was junk though. I learned more from the free tutorial on Google. If you're like me, don't cram learn. Set 15 minutes or so everyday to going through some of the videos - then think about how to apply what you learned.

Once you have those 3 down - you can earn a profit, even a nice income. Now I'm moving into CSS and SEO. PHP I still hire out.

BTW, I never learned HTML -- I just use Dreamweaver

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Tools of the trade: Keyword Helpers, stimulants, post it notes to stick to monitor so I get back to tasks I dropped days ago, accounts with adsense-cj-Azoogle-firelead-Copeac-xyz (hell, get um all) and because I am old - a wrist brace.

Photoshop and Dreamweaver are nice too - to alter designs, or make from scratch if you get into design.
=======================

So yeah, it's hard work. It's work in no uncertain terms. But I fucking love it and I'm happy as hell I found WF.

And about the taxes --> keep in mind you only pay taxes on profit, so earn the profit before you start worrying about it.

smaxor

I started to respond but it got to long so I decided to throw it up on my blog. Hope this helps.

How do I pick and Affiliate Offer to run? | Affiliate, SEO and PHP Coding Blog - OOOFF.com

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You should read my Blog HERE

ubaidabcd

Good post! That script looks like it's to split-test affiliate offers. That could really help me, I need to split test, but I'm too damn lazy since I have so many ad groups for most of my campaigns and I usually create 4 or 5 ads sometimes more and have to go through about 10 ad groups, + 4 or 5 (or more) ads in each adgroup, just to change URL's with another affiliate link to split-test offers. Going through to change 50 url's, on Yahoo's slow ass website is a pain!

Can this script work if you already have a redirect page? I have a redirect page that I use to track keywords with. Can I just put the script on the same redirect page? Should I create 2 redirect pages? First it goes through to the keyword conversion page, and then it goes to the split-testing redirect page? (sorry, I don't know anything about programming).


Thanks!

DaveEMG

There's another tack to building affiliate sites, which is trying to focus on an industry and actually building a site worth going to. Sure you can spend all the time in the world on landing pages, keyword discovery, ad optimization, etc. The other approach is to really simplify, find a niche or 2 or at most 3 that you actually WANT to work in, and start from there. Build a website that you can comfortably work on for 1hr a day (5-7 hrs / week) but constantly improve.

I've seen many affiliates start off with something stupid simple that they're interested in, like a video game site or an activity, like cross country skiing reviews or jetskiing tips, etc. Then you build up your content, as well as build up your audience organically. Allow your visitors to sign up for a weekly, biweekly, or monthly newsletter. Track the activity on your site using analytics. Know where your visitors are going and what they like reading.

This is actually one of the big differences between being a marketer and a publisher. A marketer (like probably 75% of the aff's on WF are) focuses almost everything on ROI and ad optimization. A publisher is more interested in building a rapport with an audience and in turn using advertising to support the endeavor. Especially if you're having problems being a raw marketer, you might want to consider just simplifying everything down and doing some publishing.

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ubaidabcd

Yeah, I see what you're saying. Problem is, I'm so boring! Everybody is always talking about find something you're interested and start with that. I don't really care about anything. I'm just like Peter from Office Space...LOL. If I had a million dollars I would do nothing! I seriously don't do anything or ever feel like doing anything, I blame the alcohol!

Although I do understand what you're talking about, and how valuable it could be in the long term. I've seen websites like this with what you're talking about. If you can get a quality website with people who are really interested in your site. You can then monetize with affiliate offers and you're getting all this quality targetted traffic at no cost. I'm keeping my eyes open for something to get interested in.

@iPhone - I'm working on building sites for organic traffic, it's just that SEO is more long term, and I like PPC for the quick and instant traffic you get.

DaveEMG

Eh, here's another idea. Publish your failures. I mean, it sounds like you're doing lots of trial and error and failing at lots of campaigns. Start a blog titled something like "The worst affiliate Ever" and literally share every in an out that you try.

Lots of people have trouble setting up their first few successful campaigns. It's amazing how much is in the details. Share your failures - that can be your way to build an audience.

But, make it literally EVERY detail of your efforts (short of sharing your account number and password). Copy and paste your keywords, the research you do, the sites you set up, the landing page destinations, etc. If you really become totally transparent, I can guarantee (a) people will show up to read it because everyone likes watching a failure and (b) some people will give you suggestions that'll pay off eventually.

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"If you ain't first you're last..." ... "Oh hell, Son, I was high that day. That doesn't make any sense at all, you can be second, third, fourth... hell you can even be fifth."

turbolapp

It's interesting that you bring that up Dave. I've noticed how different we all are from each other which is great because it brings a lot of versatility to the table, but it also brings alot of confusion. You can see it in almost every thread. Jon's poll on traffic brings it to light too. We all want traffic, yes. But what kind of traffic? Traffic that converts? Converts to what? If I'm running a general directory, I may not care so much about the targetted traffic as the quanity of traffic for my advertisers...etc. But you twist it just a bit like focusing on a niche directory and yeah I'm going to care a hell of alot about the targeted traffic. Plus you throw white, black (and blue ) hat into things it twists again. I guess the point is you just have to find what works for you, not just monetarily but something you can put your heart in. Then you've got just try to find the information on here that can pertain to your path.... /Zen ramblings

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ubaidabcd

LOL... I like that idea! I have no shame with telling people at what an idiot I am! Literally, every post on here of mine has something to do with failure, it could be as simple as trying to track keywords. I have no idea how long it took me to get that right and it was so simple! I've actually been given offers with keywords and not been able to make them succeed... LOL. I'm still puzzled about this.