Lord B

Fuck! Why do I always end up clicking that link thinking I might get some midget porn there.

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MDSandB

This will drive shit away from WF. I support the decision. Now how are we going to know which account to pay and when to pay coz its only a week away.

MDSandB

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Aequitas

So what are you doing with your guides then? Letting them in for free or locking them out until they pay the fee's?

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Emagineinc

<---- been lurking for a couple months, seems to come down to some preeeeetty simple train of thoughts, and this is for all the super super n00bs here. If you're not making enough money to at least pay for these subscriptions, or don't think they're "worth" it, or havn't found anything valueable enough here to make that sort of income AT LEAST per month, then fack off.

I don't make jack from am yet, but I know good info when i see it.

inspire187

Sounds good to me. I'm just a lurker here but I only come on for 1 reason and thats to figure out new ways to make money. The paid section sounds like a place where the focus will be more on sharing unique ideas (as opposed to lots of flaming/junk posts) so perhaps I'll be more inclined to participate.

(P.S. $10/month will be good!)

aim

I think three tiers may be a bit over the top. I suggest you just keep a free forum for B.S. and normal stuff, and then charge $200.00/month (or more, even) for a "Premium" section.

Having such a high monthly fee would help separate those of us who are serious about sharing knowledge much more apt to do so. I could show people how to make tons of money using simple black hat techniques, but I would NEVER post them here (or even in a $25.00/month forum) because as soon as the sheeple try them, they'll die out.

I recommend a basic forum free, and a super expensive expensive forum for the rest of us.

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m0rtal

I get your point but that sounds kinda steep man. Think about it, you're going to pay $200 just to share your ideas not knowing what anyone else will share. Not saying I wouldn't pay it but I would have to know there is some seriously good shit in there.

I haven't been a member for long but here's my opinion.

A few months back I joined another paid forum (won't mention which one). The quality of info was very good at first and as more members joined it seemed to die down. It doesn't matter if you make it $20 a month or $50 a month. Unless it is limited to a number of people I think you will find that the quality of information will go down over time as more people join.

Especially considering since the only thing keeping those who aren't serious out is the money. It still doesn't mean you're not going to have newbies going in there and just leeching the info for the monthly fee and making some feel uncomfortable sharing.

Are you not going to promote the paid section? Of course you are, which means over time you will get more and more members and less and less sharing...but that's just my opinion.

pig2cat

well, bye then o_O

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Submerge

Looks like I'll have one less forum to visit

trigatch4

Mixed feelings.

I understand the intent and can't argue with the model you're suggesting. Afterall, it is your forum. Stanley mentioned $25 or $5... it doesn't matter. I think he makes a valid point in that charging ANY fee should keep away the pure garbage. Let's just hope you go with $5 instead of $25!

On the other hand, I think you could accomplish the same without a paid subscription model. Basically, you have to earn your stars and stripes. The "premium area" would start with whoever you deem "worthy" - mods, guides, whoever. Within the members area there could be a forum called "initiation" whereby:

Thread Title = Members Name
Poll = Accepted or Denied
Outcome = certain % wins acceptance with a minimum number of votes needed

Let the existing "premium members" decide who is worthy of the "inner circle". You'll basically need people to "vouch" for you... ie eliminating the bullshit. If a newb wants to "get in" then perhaps they can pay their way in but at the same time, what is to stop Google or Facebook or anyone from ante-ing up $200/year to get the lowdown on the showdown... the "dirt" so to speak?

There are positives/negatives no matter what you do so obviously you have to do what's in your best interest. I'm just offering a few ideas off the top of my head after reading your thread.

Goodluck with whatever you choose... I'm sure it will make WF an even better place either way.

Cheers.

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mdmazing

agreed, but i have a feeling it's more about the money than anything else. I hope jon won't ban me for stating my opinion this time

SleepyStarling

I thought we outgrew elitist popularity contests in high school.

No offense, Trigatch, and I see a valid point in your suggestion, but that will only encourage competitors to badmouth each other or [insert various prejudices here].

While capping the subscribers at a certain number is okay, having too limited a forum can also be self-destructive as talent leaves, moves on or stops sharing ideas and a vacuum emerges where rising talent should be.

Everyone was a noob at some point. Few are talented, it's true, but those few will never matriculate if everyone keeps throwing up barriers and catch-22s like:

-- you need a shitload of money to buy into a club to make money (I'm not saying I can't pay $25, I'm saying prices significantly higher than that are steep for forums)

-- you need to know people to meet people who can 'know you'

etc. Just saying. Some of us are just starting to see returns on little-cost investments and still learning programming as we go. I don't mind paying, and I told Jon so -- but we'd better be getting really good info in a paid forum.

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seocracy

Im a noob and therefore afraid of being left out.

Can someone tell me what PR is?

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Seocracy.com

Jay

PR is page ratio. It's the ratio of how many links there are to your page versus all the links to all the pages on the internet.

trigatch4

Point taken... but I explained that every solution has positives/negatives. The "vouching" policy serves to eliminate the threat of unwanted prying eyes AND newbs. A paying system eliminates people with little/no disposable income which are probably mostly newbs.

Whatever I'll just wait and see what is implemented and decide what to do from there. I'm done with this thread until Jon imposes his new rules of membership... then everything will sort itself out.

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Wiy

sounds good to me

JamesH

At first I was fucking pissed about this shit. But this placed has helped me earn a lot of bank, so I figure its worth it. Yea I don't have a job, and all of the money I make goes back into trying to make more money, but I'm sure I can scrape a few bucks together to get in. You said we can bargain, correct?

turbolapp

Well if Toolhen's little spamming episode that just happened a few moments ago (i think the poor mod is still cleaning it all up) didn't just drive this thread home I don't know what will.


What a fucking Git and a half.

Laura

Yah, and the touchpad on my 11.1 inch laptop doesn't make it very easy to delete them all very fast...

SleepyStarling

Point taken. I always thought he was a dickwad, though, not just after today.

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SurferJoe

I'm in

CorrectAD

is there any way you can work in an annual or lifetime membership fee at a discount?

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droplister

Not sure I see the connection between high monthly fee and seriousness/professionalism. You're probably just going to get really angry "noobs" who pay the high price and don't know how to apply the info.

DaveEMG

Well, count me out.

Forums are about content. You get my content, and in turn I get access to forum members. Advertising at the top. Pretty straightforward.

I feel like I'm a pretty reasonable contributor to the site, but if it's pay to play, I guess I'll go somewhere else.

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Trademark

If the goal is to bring in revenue to replace the banners with paid-member ads, etc., a monthly fee is a great idea.

If it's a matter of keeping newbs out, a monthly fee isn't going to stop the newbs from desecrating the space (as m0rtal said above). After all, there are plenty of newbs with money to burn. $25 a month isn't going to keep them out.

Ironically, one danger is that "playuhs" may be willing to leave rather than pay up, whether based on principle or price. Some may say, "Well, fuck 'em then. Let 'em leave..." but I can think of a few members where it'd be a real loss if they bailed.

Then, there's the issue of identifying newbs. How the fuck do you do that?!

If someone has 3 posts to their name (which is a shitload more than me at the moment), that obviously doesn't mean they're idiots or unwilling to help. They might know their shit and be right on the cusp of jumping in to beat on people with kick-ass tactics. Then, there are some knuckleheads with 1,000 posts who don't know much but sure want to share it all with everyone every chance they get.

How about implementing a paid system and a timed test. In other words, yeah... someone can whip out a credit card but, as soon as they're about to pony up the $25 or whatever for access, their IP is logged and a timed test starts. It's timed so that they can't look around for the answers. They either know their shit or they don't (whether it's SEO, PPC, mailing, media buys, etc.). If they score well, they get access plus perks. If they don't, they get to give you money, but...

But, shit... what do I know? I only have 1 post so far.

andyt

What's Facebook doing to WickedFire???

nachoninja

So why not lock and delete the cause of most of the n00bs coming here:

Free Ebook Download Section

It's like a fucking wasteland of retards in that thread...

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MyOwnDemon

OH NOES! NN posted more than 1 line AND he used proper caps.

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sebastya

as long as we don't have to pay for a yearly sub up front ill give it a try.

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BlondeTM

Will being a paid member fix the page not found errors that are increasing by the day? If so, post the paypal addy asap.

gdubs12345

i think you should keep it free, but make it a private forum and show ads. I get sick of all the new people, it makes me not want to post anything. I used to be more involved, but lately quality has been a little poor, so i just read blogs instead.
But you have this site to make money so do what you need to do.

loyolabenson

I don't think it's so easy typing with paws.

Jondoe0069

If there's still going to be a free area, what's stopping the majority of people from just continuing to post there and not paying for the premium area? It wouldn't make sense for you to spend any time moderating the free area, so it would be tough to stop them from posting anything and everything in whatever sections you leave there.

Also, the premium area you have now is not very active. If you keep a free section, I don't see too many people paying for the new premium area either. They already have the option to pay for premium content and most don't. Why not revamp the current paid section and promote the shit out of it? Or drop the price a little?

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aim

Props to Trademark for one of the most intelligent post in this thread.

I'm starting to like the private invitation style idea in addition to paying extra money. In all actuality anything I've learned hasn't even really been on the Forum itself; it's by visiting the blogs in the signatures of a small handful of folks that post here.

In a private forum, it would be great to have a consolidated space where people can share targeted ideas openly. Although, it still begs the question; what do we get for sharing our knowledge?

One scenario would be a fee-based revenue-sharing forum, where revenue is distributed amongst those with the highest amount of rep points.

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aim

Also, there is a chance that the whole paid thing could backlash, and a few deserters start their own forum to replace WickedFire. Just a thought...

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nachoninja

He's right, my dog types most of my posts while I dictate

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Lucidity

I think 3 tiers is a bad move. It should either be completely private, or remain as it is with the exclusive high price premium section and the rest of the board open to the public.

Leaving only the bottom of the barrel to fend for themselves in the public space while all the useful content is hidden away is like allowing a bunch of hobos to squat outside an invite-only party at the Playboy mansion. Search engines and the general public only see the very worst of Wickedfire and none of the good stuff, which will invariably give them a terrible first impression and little incentive to want to subscribe to the private section.

The counter argument to that may be that quality individuals will be pulled in through word of mouth by other quality individuals. That could work well, but it would work just as well if there was no free section at all, and probably even better. Being able to see no content whatsoever prompts my curiosity; seeing nothing but a big swarm of festering e-shit prompts my vomit response.

bgmacaw

I don't think it will work well for you. I've seen a number of once popular forums go to a pay model and this is usually what has happened.

The first thing, the good members, aka content providers, begin to jump ship for one reason or another and go somewhere else. Some leave right away over the money issue itself and some leave later when the inevitable personality disputes arise. As they say, "Money changes everything."

The second thing that happens is that the community becomes very inbred since there is little or no new input, good or bad. Worse, it turns a smaller and smaller amount of revenue for the site owner and they're faced with either demanding more money from the remaining paying members, and some will jump ship over this, or operating at cost or even a loss.

Maybe this won't happen here. I'd hope it wouldn't since I've found this forum very useful. It's just that I've seen this kind of thing go bad so many times before.

SleepyStarling

Exactly. That's what I thought about it when I heard about it. It would be difficult to find a price that would weed out trolls and not cause everyone else to run.

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pocketrockets

I'd imagine it's going to be tough converting users who are used to free access to paid members. What exactly is WF itself going to contribute to the paid sections?

For example, WealthyAffiliate offers free hosting, keyword tools, free web templates/feeder sites, spy tools, etc. Will any features if any, be added or is it basically going to be just as it is now... with a few members supplying good content?

Just know if you are going to start requiring a paid membership that people will also expect something in return for their money.

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morphy

exactly and instead of getting rid of the n00bs you'll end up with a shitload of them coming with the idea of paying for the "secrets" and after they'll find out that they still need to work their asses of to make a buck, they'll start bitching around again
anyways I'll still pay for my membership cuz I know how to read between the lines and that is the big n00bs problem as they want everything on a plate (well not really all of them)

ScottDaMan

I like this forum, but I loved it before. If you can keep all the bullshit out of the paid section(s) that would help me a ton and would be worth something. But from the way you speak Jon, it sounds like the paid sections will be a paid free for all which means no time savings for me, and no value.

I agree with nachoninja removing the free ebook thread completely, remove the retard linkbaits, make the forum private, and have one premium section you charge an arm for.

For people who used to contribute but have recently given up due to the recent retardation of WF, like me, we'll come back and try to contribute more.

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eliquid

Thats it, Jon made up my mind.. this is the best quote all year and it made me make up my mind that I am paying to join this forum.. where do I send my US dollars?

eliquid

I think you should be charged a small fee to even join the forum, like $5 for a norm membership, then charge an extra $20 to get into the premium sections ( per month ). That way you keep out the freeloaders and still have a premium section

cashflowrusty

How about a take on the Survivor way: Monthly fee + 3 warnings = Vote to kick off the forum. You can try again next month, for another fee. No refunds.

Warning are for trolls, and since Jon has the way to perm block folk(ok, sorta perm) after a few tries, they get the perm-ban.

I would LOVE to discuss things more in depth, but not publicly. I cannot (at this time) afford or justify Premium membership. I'll take the $25/mo and hope I *IMPLEMENT* some of the cool shit I see posted, so I CAN go Premium at some point...

John

I guess you should probably change your user name to nocashflowrusty then.

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nachoninja

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carmach

Nearly everytime I come to WickedFire I get the infamous "Page not found" error multiple times.

If paying a monthly fee will get this fixed, I'm all for it.

On the other side of this, it might also be a good idea to get your shit together and working before trying to charge people for it.

greenvy

damn...what about the OG wickedfire members?

don't we get a discount or grandfather in or something?

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DruSam

That's being discussed.