Webferret

kiddies, ur are all off topic!!!! The REAL issue here is whether Shoemoney likes to play 'ride the wild mambo' with gerald the goat.

Demonez666

Yes I posted the link, and wanted to clear the misconception that she WAS asking for money. Either donate 20$ and get a link or leave it. And it was not a sales proposal as you said.

She just wanted to have fun in ASW with friends from WF and she was in some condition where she had to pay for her college, nothing biggie. Sometimes somebody stucked... we don't know and it could be happened to everybody.. including me and you. I applaud for her honesty.

why do you make this become complicated. And can we just leave her now?

Thx and peace hommie

Oh, this is my last comment about Andrea. And I hope we are not going off topic again from this point on as webferret sez.

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babyboy808

Ok I'm lost, Shoe hooks up with goats??

nmwando

knuckle fight, knuckle fight... knuckle fight !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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deStone

Andrea rocks, she has no business with any of this...

If it were my brother, i'd be upset to be included in all of this as well...

barman

shut the fuck up deStone!

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deStone

barman, I'm going to send you a C&D -- watchout!

invisible777

FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT

cjsandstorm2001

webferret has a secret goat fetish

Jon

I'm not exactly a strong man here.. I never suggested any physical harm being brought to him, nor would I care. I much rather like poking fun at him and the way he fucks up and lies to everyone over and over. If he punches me, that's a different story.

And I hate doing this..

But I'm sorry to Andrea for bringing her up in this. I shouldn't have done that. But I don't want to change my original post due to a certain bald extra saggy skin man who is trying to suggest that I do forum crap like he does. In all seriousness though, Andrea is just an innocent bystander unfortunately, and I promised her I wouldn't involve or mention her in this shit ever again. So I'm sorry Andrea. You're a billion times cooler than your bro, and we love you!

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geekcognito

I wasn't referring to you, I was referring to a couple of your 40-post cheerleaders.

__________________

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BlondeTM

I agree with this. Andrea has class, and like I said in the other thread where you guys insisted on diminishing her as an individual...you guys are retards.

Obsessed retards.

Ok, none of you like Shoemoney. We get that. But to dedicate threads to bashing him daily? Sounds like lust more than hate.

BlondeTM

I believe the women of WF have the most sense in this place.

Webferret

faking adsense checks and goat abuse should be 'duff up' offenses.

BlondeTM

Oh and fuck all of you worthless virgins who think she begged for money.

She sold links. She disclosed why she was selling them, but really it's none of anyone's business.

At least she wasn't selling them to increase a collection of blow up sex dolls.

nachoninja

That's like saying no one should talk about the lies and bullshit George Bush is all about.

Don't you people realise that Shoemoney and these other fake ass "super affiliates" are ruining the reputations/occupations of people that do this for living - it makes all of us look like shit.

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BlondeTM

The reputations of people who create offers for "free ringtones" and such like Lazy Hippy pointed out?

So you don't like HOW he scams, but scamming to make money certainly isn't limited to him.

BlondeTM

Another thing...

shoemoney isn't ruining my reputation. My reputation as a success has nothing at all with how he blogs. It has everything to do with how hard I work, how I monetize my sites, and so on.

Geez.....you are glorifying his perceived power.

nachoninja

my response to this is way too long to type, and I'm not glorifying shit - who has a bigger reach to the general public you or these "super affiliates"?

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Jon

It's not about bashing Shoemoney.. it's about standing up to a bully, a liar, a scammer etc.

The same thing that went for Lingle and ClickBooth applies to Shoemoney and anyone else who fucks around and tries to get the best of people's trust, cash or business.

I'm not trying to be a martyr here, and I'm certainly not trying to stir the hornet's nest with anyone else, all I'm doing here is showing everyone that you don't have to be afraid of douchebags like Shoemoney and the other idiots who try and use these really lame intimidation factors.

I know this is going to sound strange.. but over this last week I've been speaking to other industry folk, outside of WickedFire, and to put an end to people who coast along and lie about pretty much everything to build a false sense of reality or reputation based on it. We're building a sort of task force to combat it. But not in the fighting or threatening to sue sense. Instead it's sole purpose is to investigate and take a much deeper look into claims certain people or businesses take, and really dig for the truth. The outcome will be an industry wide ban on those whom are deemed guilty of it. So that things like this can be prevented, and if not prevented, at least people can be warned and not led to be lied to for a long time making it tough for them to make a decision that effects their business in the future.

I really wish there was something like this around before. Something that would have prevented a Lingle or ClickBooth disaster. I actually wish I would have come out sooner and exposed Shoemoney for the liar that he is. But I was really just waiting for my timing to be right, to jump in at the right time when Shoemoney dug himself even deeper into his hole of bullshit.

I'm not going to back down from this because I am sick and tired of seeing people like him build false reputations and then going on and using it to their financial gains, thus making them even tougher to stop and defend against.

Look at Shoemoney now. His reputation that is. He's going to be speaking on an SES panel I'm sure. He still has lots of SEO/SEM related friends who are going to be jeopordizing their reputations unfortunately in the longrun for associating themselves alongside him out of loyalty as a friend. Which I don't blame them one bit either, as I have done the same with other people, and then felt totally betrayed later on. But that's what happens when there are no warning signs or when people don't speak up until it's too late. Shoemoney has said many times that he plans on writing a book. He also claims to have big plans in terms of creating a set of "infomercial style" get rich quick products. What if I didn't speak out against him? I'm not going to sit around and pretend like I give a shit about naive people being ripped off by yet another liar who built their reputation on total bullshit. But then again, as a member of this industry, and an industry I care A LOT about, which may be my weakness, that I personally have spent A LOT of time involved in and will continue to do so for as long as I can. I for one do not want to see another one of these liars get away with building up false hopes and reputation just because no one else will say anything.

So like what got this place started in the first place. I'll say something. If it comes back to kick me in the ass, so be it. But at least I won't have any regrets knowing that when I could have done something I did, instead of everyone else in a powerful position like my own did absolutely nothing until I said something.. again. Come on people, make a fucking change. Stand up for yourselves. Stop letting these assholes come in and lie and fuck up our industry!!!

If boycotting certain events or certain sites because they employ a certain known liar, then so be it.

I'll be making some announcements at the show, and it may fuck with me later on, may piss some people off, but if being the first one to stand up and say something inspires other people to do the same, then it will have been well worth the risk. I have a feeling though, that I am definitely not the only one who feels this strongly and passionately about this industry in wanting to clean it up a bit. I won't go after you because of how you do your business, or the decisions you make. Whether ethical or non-ethical, legal or illegal, it's your choice. But I will not standby quietly and take spoonfed bullshit from people who need to be called out and need to be removed for promoting themselves or their companies as these amazing places or people, because then we all look like fools for drinking their kool-aid, and I for one, have had enough.

Love WF? Hate WF? I really could care less, but at least agree, that people like Shoemoney and Chris Lingle, or a company like ClickBooth should be removed from this industry because they are based on nothing but lies.

PS - Both Shoemoney and ClickBooth have both sent ME cease and decists now. Both have no case against me or WickedFire. Both have tried their damned hardest to censor you and me on here. So don't think that this is just some petty bullshit that I'm doing for attention. I've put myself at risk.. what have you done lately?

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BlondeTM

See....I don't really care because those "super affiliates" aren't targeting what I am.

I'm doing fine and making a very nice living on the markets I'm in, because I target specifically to the users I want to. They target to the users they want to.

Remember the old saying....the bigger they are, the harder they fall. I'm pretty happy with being perceived as being a little girl in this business. My bank account is something I don't share, and I don't feel the need to share ever. So perception is a very skewed thing.

I can't help the people that go out and seek specific niche marketers like him out. I can help the people that are looking for MY niches. I provide, I get paid, they get what they came for, all is good in my world.

But I am not in any way saying that my world is perfect for everyone. Different strokes for different folks. Shoemoney does his thing, I do my thing, spammers (and there are many here) do their thing...and we all make money. We provide value by giving our customer what they came for. It's too bad that some customers want easy money, or quick fixes, or fantasies instantly fulfilled. But they aren't my target market, so I don't lose sleep over them.

Jon

^ The above is meant towards everyone... not BlondeTM.

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Jon

Dammit Judy.. you posted faster and made my last post look borderline retarded, haha!

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BlondeTM

Jon, I never said you were trying to be a martyr. I also "get" what you're trying to do...but in my opinion you're helping him.

It would be far more valuable to post one of his scams and shoot holes in it with the REAL way to do it. Back it up with facts that the people making money use to make money...KWIM?

BlondeTM

You dork.

Mahzkrieg

Holy fuck at the Saggy Skin Defense Force that's parading in this thread.

That Desist letter is HORRIBLY written. Those aren't even the best fitting legal citations for the claim! Two of them don't even apply, even after you "reinterpret" their meaning! I think his lawyer wiki'd "libel" and arbitrarily copy and pasted the first couple citations.

If you ever have to take this to court, be sure to source Yahoo for a notarized copy of his banning. In a libel/slander case, information not federally protected MUST be given to you if it can prove that you aren't commiting libel/slander. Also of course source his blog AND from a cache archive database like archive.org if he takes it down.

geekcognito

I've read this and a couple of your other posts as well. So...yeah, what's your retainer fee?

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Jon

Well see.. that's what I was referring to..

For years I sat around not getting involved when I probably should have. Instead I just focused on my own work, my own business, and my own cash flow.

But now I'm nearing my 14th year in the industry, and a lot of what I do now isn't about focusing on making cash for my business or my own pockets or even your pockets. It's more of a public service type of role that I've been fighting against and trying to avoid for a very long time, but only recently began to not only accept it, but truly embrace it.

I know, it sounds really deep and nice and whatever.. not something I would normally admit to or want to be doing. But I feel like when you've spent so much time, money and effort building something within an industry, that it's your, dare I say, moral duty to stand up and say something.

Maybe I'm just getting more mature (oh please no!!!!) and looking at things differently now. I hate drama, seriously, I really do. I hate getting involved. But sometimes guys.. I just can't sit back and be selfish like I was for so many years. Sometimes, it's my moral and industry duty to get involved and make noise or bring attention to a certain topic of interest for the ENTIRE industry, not myself, not for WF, not for any financial goal... but for the industry.

I just wish other people would join the fight and do the same so I didn't have to look like the only kid on the block with his fists up ready to jump into the fight.

I'm going to be spending a lot more time and effort into making sure shit like this happens less and less often.

PS - How many death threats have you guys gotten from the shit you say about different things you find wrong in this industry? Because I get them pretty often.. and some of you wonder why I take this stuff so personally sometimes. Well, being sent C&D's is one thing, death threats are a whole 'nother ballgame guys. Once you enter that realm, there's no going back, and that's why I continue to do this shit, and stick my neck out and bring attention to controversial topics like this. Because I figure, the next step after a death threat should be obvious, and if I'm going to go down because some insane fuck thinks it's justified, so be it, but I won't be intimidated by ANYONE in the process, and I certainly will never go down without a fight.. a very public one.

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Jon

I've got his entire blog cache from both Google and Yahoo saved... So that when he goes about his deleting and post changing spree, I have the original versions backed by how Google and Yahoo both saw it.

Also have tons of other resources that he created himself as the first to say/talk/blog/post about it. So his credibility is on a downward spiral right now, that he started all on his own. All I did was connect the dots. Thanks Shoemoney! If only every idiot who sent me a C&D was as good as setting himself up as you are!

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semester3

Fucking right. I find it hilarious that he has been posting a bunch of post(s) lately trying to cover up what has been brought to light lately. My favorite thing is that I see his picture and videos lately and you can see that he is worried about it.

People should go to events and then heckle him. I loved to see him cry.

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nachoninja

Jon's the Ron Paul of Affiliate Marketing

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Demon

Web Archive FTW. Great tool for exposing that kind of shit. Internet Archive: Wayback Machine

[/offtopic]

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BlondeTM

But haven't you started doing that by creating WickedFire?

And can't you do it better by being specific without giving him ammo to use against you?

I don't mean against you in the sense of C&D, I mean he can paint you to be a raving lunatic or a ranter or whatever. How can he fight back against solid information that helps those he's trying to scam?

That way, your process is expanded. You not only expose the scammers, but you provide the sheeple with a way to NOT be sheeple...the truth. The right way to do things.

When the gurus methods are proven as highly flawed and the successful way to do things is highlighted it has a much more profound effect on their wallet.

I realize all the information anyone needs is alreay here, but it can be overwhelming to compartmentalize it all. Especially for a newbie.

Dammit....I'll just post one of his things, then use it as a case study as to what is wrong with it and how we can do it better in a way that works.

Tonight. I'll do it tonight. If anyone has a specific thing that SM is promoting that they want me to use let me know.

Webferret

simple fact is - shoemoney, goatfucker that he is, has shown how little brains he has by sending a c&d to the wf forum. A 2 year old with a dummy in his mouth could have predicted what would happen next.

Shoemoney, apparently, isnt even as smart as a 2 y.o. plus dummy.

I HATE 'fake it till u make it' scammers.

Xrproto

Sexist

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seocracy

Despite my longstanding support for Wicked Fire, I find this whole thing to be classless and in poor taste.

I'm not hating on you Jon, but hear me out: it's impossible to deny the fact that you've a proven track record for instigating drama and posting long winded rants. I don't have the time to go through your blog and this forum and cite incidents/links, but I shouldn't have to. You and I and everyone knows that you're a bit of a showman at heart and love nothing more then to instigate, bait people, and make wild proclamations (that showmanship, when directed and controlled, is the mark of a good marketing mindset!). Your penchant for this kind of behavior is, in itself, no big deal; after all you are who you are and you've a right to conduct yourself as you see fit.

So, you say you are trying to stand up to a bully, a lier, and a scammer.
I say, you've done that. You've already succeeded in achieving your stated goal.....and now you are walking on a VERY fine line. On one side of the line you are championing a worthy cause and on the other side, you're nothing more then the leader of a lynch mob.

I dont think you need to post another single word on any of this mess (if anything you've said too much already). As I said, you've achieved your goal and have publicly and willfully stood up to a perceived injustice.

Any further outbursts and proclamations on your part put you in serious risk of becoming nothing more then the leader of a lynch mob. Reading over some of the truly sophmoric, insipid and immature comments on this thread, I think perhaps the you already have become the leader of a lynch mob.

I dont know what you know about lynch mobs throughout history, but you, being an intelligent man, should understand that you DONT EVER want to find yourself leading one. Because while it all starts out with a sense of righteousness, it quickly devolves to nothing more than blandest kind bigotry and idiocy, which is precisely what I've witnessed in the majority of the posts on this thread.

I dont really think there can be a 'winner' here. There are only those with the good sense to be silent and those with the poor sense to shoot off their mouths.

Anyways, at the end of the day, I love Wickedfire, but this whole thing leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

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killafawk

hey just because you weigh 80 pounds and had your lunch money stolen every day at school doesnt mean you can't fight back!

Theres nothing wrong with fighting, if its an offical thing like in a ring they could setting this out with a few punches and i bet they would hug and kiss afterwards.

nachoninja

and that's the reason he excludes it in robots.txt

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geekcognito

Yup. That's me.

There's also nothing wrong with a civil discourse, either. One day you will grow up enough to realize that fighting - actual fist fighting - is not as "fun" as it once was.

Trust me, I used to get a rush from the occasional brawl too. And even though I have no idea who you are, I can say with absolute certainty that I've been in much worse with much meaner people than you will ever dream of. And I also had the displeasure of sobering up in the same jail cell as some of them the day after. Not a fun (or healthy) experience.

Every one is tough behind a keyboard. I'm thankful for the day that I realized that restraint and composure makes a man much larger than resorting to violence.

One day - when you're old enough - we may meet at an industry conference and you can tell me that I weigh 80 lbs. and you can try to take my "lunch money" from me. But I sincerely doubt that will happen.

Grow up, son.

__________________

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"While you have lost some money, you have also gained some knowledge. So in the end you may have not lossed at all. Good luck bro." ~ Sumitdhawan09

waxingpoetic75

Waaaait for it...

Greetings to all...new to the forum and this was the first post I came across...nice, huh?

I don't have the ranking, obviously, to share my opinion regarding these posts; however, I have become disenchanted with the showcase-o-rama of free t-shirts and blogging trade shows on a certain blog as of late. Unsubscribed months ago actually.

The thing here that concerns me is the assault of our right to freedom of speech. Am I missing something...since when can't you post whatever the hell you want barring gross illegalities like child porn and the like on the internet!?!

Especially in a forum. Forums and blogs are things that are designed for people to say what they please. It's always been a thing where...well...people were posting their thoughts, opinions, etc. I mean if we were all here slamming a reknowned individual that most people dislike, it probably wouldn't be a problem. I don't see C&D letters coming from 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. every time someone makes a negative remark. I'm sure if we were singing praises, the mention wouldn't be a problem.

Negative publicity happens...get over it.

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Demon

yeah I only realised after posting

Well, this thread was the last place I expected to learn something useful from Shoemoney...

*rushes off to change robots.txt files*

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aim

And +1 to everything else that Seocracy said. This whole thing is fucking retarded. Just squash it now. Close this thread. Let's move on.

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Jon

Squash it? Why? So we can just let it blow over and let him get away with lying to everyone, bullying people for the last 2 years, building up enough credibility that we should all be held liable for not taking action against him sooner?

It's easy for guys like you who don't stick your neck out and fight for something to say "oh you're being a baby" or "oh this is like HS". Yeah, it appears as it is, but when you actually grow up and learn how BAD shit like this is for ALL of us in the longterm, doesn't that worry you?

I'm sorry, but I can't let it go. Because now Shoemoney has a lot of explaining to do, and he's going around to people right now, and has been for the last 2 days already, trying to convince them that I'm lying about this. That I'm making all of this up. That I changed my original post to something entirely different. That he is being picked on. Are you fucking kidding me?

No way. Not this time. Not anytime will I let a liar like him try and play the helpless victim role. Absolutely not.

I've gotten in touch with The New York Times over this because they actually used him as a "credible source" in an article, and I gotta say, he's not looking very credible anymore.

What about people and companies paying to advertise on his blog? Or the people involved in any type of private consulting or partnerships that involves HIM as an 'authority figure'?? This will all make THEM look bad for trusting him. Hell, I look bad now too because I trusted him and didn't doubt him amongst the many times he asked me to post something for him or for a venture he was involved in. Like the AuctionAds sale. I feel like an idiot for not getting proof of his statements about how much revenue they earned. Or his traffic stats for it. Or even the final buyout price that he said was in the millions, but then said "I can't say exactly because they will know I dropped the news to you and they won't buy it". Yeah, I feel cheated for sure. So should everyone else unfortunately.

That's my goal. Not to make this into a circus or soapopera, but to make sure that while I'm in the industry, someone like this will not get away with lying to me and the rest of the industry, because it is just plain INSULTING.

Would you let Chris Lingle speak at a conference now that you know he was scamming people, lying about having cancer, cheating members out of $50,000 here on the forum, and trying to get everyone to leave WF and go join him elsewhere??? Would there be an industrywide ban on him if we would have just said "oh well that sucks, but drama stinks and let's just ban him here and leave it alone". Fuck no! That would let him get away with it.

Or what about ClickBooth giving out an affiliate's information, that later sparked an inquiry into them that ulimitately led to the fact that they are lying and cheating their affiliates and advertisers left and right?? They sent us TWO C&D's trying to get us to shut up and delete the threads that THEY participated in themselves, thus nullifying their claims that they didn't know about the thread. Blatant lying!!

Does this whole thing suck? Absolutely. I'm sure Shoemoney is well upset, and he has every reason to be. But he can now bet that there will be lots of questions for him to answer from now on.

SHOEMONEY should NOT be taken seriously anymore.

SHOEMONEY should NOT have a radio show anymore.

SHOEMONEY should NOT be allowed to speak at conferences anymore.

SHOEMONEY should NOT be considered a credible or authority figure anymore.

Other than those things, he should be left alone. No one should start up with him here or anywhere after all of this. Specifically on a personal level.

I poked a lot of fun at him and his sensitive areas, and I'm done with that. No one likes to be lied to or played a fool, and it was completely justified for the time it lasted for.

Now we should be taking a more serious approach. Which is why I've been banding together with other very credible and authoritive figures in the industry to create a task force to take a VERY serious look into Shoemoney, and come back with a decision..

Ultimately I really don't want to be in charge of that, because just by me saying what everyone else clearly has been wanting to say for so long is more than I ever wanted this to become. In a twist of fate though, it uncovered a lot of really interesting and serious questions about him, his judgement, his character, his morals, his ethics, and most importantly, his authority and credentials in the industry.

So be it.. we'll see what's uncovered and what the final judgement is. And maybe this will finally act as a warning and lesson to anyone else thinking that just because the internet makes it tougher than usual to track or verify information, doesn't make you safe from being caught.

fin

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barman

jon is one determined j00.

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killafawk

lol i guarantee i could take your lunch money anyday. But anyway Im not saying just go up to the guy and kick his ass. Im saying grow some balls and put on some gloves and have a good ol brawl. Nobody gets hurt and you take out your frustration on each other.Beats being a little bitch and have a grudge for the rest of your life throwing legal papers around at each other. Thats how people get so pissed they decide to kill people.

babyboy808

Who the fuck are you??

Benahue

Like the Internet Marketing Ninjas video series. You should call Jim Boykin and have Shoemoney's videos removed. Why didn't Boykin ask you to do a video for that anyway? That actually is a useful tool set, and some of the videos have useful tidbits in them.

But ask Jim Boykin to have Shoeomoney's interviews removed and replaced with interviews of you.

geekcognito

__________________

"Never confuse movement with action." ~Ernest Hemingway

"While you have lost some money, you have also gained some knowledge. So in the end you may have not lossed at all. Good luck bro." ~ Sumitdhawan09

barman

it's the wf_troll

__________________

geekcognito

And I've been feeding him. Shame on me.

__________________

"Never confuse movement with action." ~Ernest Hemingway

"While you have lost some money, you have also gained some knowledge. So in the end you may have not lossed at all. Good luck bro." ~ Sumitdhawan09