turbolapp

The other thing to consider is with a directional change in leadership in this country we then allow everyone involved (the west, the east and the middle east) to "save face". Our leadership can say, "Look, that was a different administration with an entirely different foreign policy, I'm not like that, I want to try work the problems out peacefully not jump into countries guns blazing" The other countries can save face as well by saying "well we didn't like you're other guy but we'll give this guy a try" If we replace this administration with another republican one, I fear the world will just shrug and say, "eh, more of the same".

LazyHippy

And from what McCain has said it will be more of the same.

It would be nice if everyone thought like that, but it seems a lot of people can't seem to join the dots between America's actions overseas and the impact at home and so many people happily lap up whatever the media feeds them.

Probably more out of concern for re-election than anything genuine, but here I think politicians are counting down the days til Bush has gone, they certainly don't want to associate themselves with him any more.

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popeye

Fuck..I didnt want to post in this thread again..but I must. We are not gona pull out of IRAQ no matter who gets in office. The troops might come home some months earlier than scheduled but we wont pull out.

I don't care what clinton or Obama says. Once in office. Once briefed. Once they settle down and start worrying about conseqences rather than getting elected they will realize we CAN'T get out.

Regardless if we needed to be there in the first place or not. We are there. We are now responsible to see it through. Do you think Obama is gona pull out and have the blood of thousands of Iraqi innocents on his hands.

No president will make the same mistake as we did in Nam. No president will allow another Cambodia to happen. If they do then they are sorry excuse for a human being.

Mark my word on this. The troops WILL NOT COME home no matter who is in office.

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popeye

Bush is hated for two reasons:

1) Left wing media
2) Left wing activist

In 20 years Bush will be looked at by historians as a great president.

1) He stood strong and showed leadership that helped hold country together after the worst terrorist attack on American soil.
2) He inacted policy that kept our economy from recession post 9/11
3) He hunted down hundreds of terrorist and brought them to justice.
4) He ousted one of the most ruthless dictators in the world
5) He liberated 2 middleeastern countried from the tyranny of dictatorship and allowed them to hold democratic elections
6) He greatly increased social spending. Spending more on social programs than any president in history (one for the libs. I am not to happy bout this)
7) He oversaw an economy that allowed more citizens to purchase homes than ever before in history (including the highest percentage of minority home ownership in history)
8) He oversaw policy that overcame the nuclear proliferation of North Korea

Im tired of typing but the list goes on and on. George Bush has far more accomplishments than any president since the great Ronald Reagen.

I believe he never had a chance with the far left loons due to the fact they believed he "stole" both campaigns from them. That and the fact that the leftest elite are very biggoted to individuals from the south.

For example: Al Gore was hammered by the lefty elite for being a dumbass (and he was and still is) but once he aligned himself more to the left and started feeding on their ideology...WHAM he is the smartest person on earch. He is Captain Planet and wins a fuckin Nobel Peace Prize. I guess though he did as he stated "invent the Internet"

I personally cant back Bush due to his border policy but I don't think he is a bad a president as the Michael Moores and Cindy Sheehans make him out to be.

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turbolapp

You're right the new president is going to have a FUCKING mess on their hands to clean up. Thanks Bush. Thanks for bumblefucking this country and skating out and leaving it for someone else to deal with. You're wrong about Bush being remembered as a great president. The only thing he will be remembered for is Iraq and his miserable failure. It's his legacy.

steveyoung

LazzyHippy

Well, after wading through all your liberal diatribes, you finally got around to the “[w]hat is your solution?” part of the question and all you could come up with is dump it on the United Nations? Please, we have been to the UN on multiple occasions and the one thing we have learned is that they are great at wasting our money and doing nothing. You’ll have to do better than that.


Turbolapp

“Save Face?” Who really cares about that at this point? The issue is not one of “saving face” it is an issue of doing the right thing. Unfortunately, figuring out what the “right thing” is has been difficult.

What it boils down to for Americans, is, if you believe we should abandon Iraq, vote for the Democrats or, if you believe something else, vote for the Republicans.

Oh, and I’m not surprised you are for Obama, which is evident from your statement “we didn't like you're other guy [Bush] but we'll give this guy [Obama] a try.” Alas, poor Hillary.


Popeye,

Again, we agree completely with the exception that I believe if a Democrat is elected to the Presidency, our troops WILL come home – for exactly the reason you stated.

LazyHippy

I agree completely.

They need to put on blue helmets and start working with neighbouring countries to be seen as a peace-keeping force, rather than an occupying power.

If peace is desired then America needs to withdraw from Iraq as occupier, but America certainly as a responsibility to provide the majority of troops and resources to any UN-led peace keeping force that would be needed.

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LazyHippy

I doubt we will agree, but if you look at the history of UN action compared to US unilateral action you'll see that the UN does a much better job than America on her own. Of course it isn't perfect, and it does need reform, but at the moment it's the best shot we (the world) have got at peace.

Compare the situation in Afghanistan and Iraq with the situations in Sierra Leone and Bosnia at similar periods after the conflicts there. While you are at it, have a look at the finances too - the US government does a much better job at wasting taxpayers money than the UN!

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Jizzlobber

What's so special about the UN's work in Afghanistan? Civilian deaths reached an all time high last year, the Taliban are increasing their territorial strongholds and now poppy production is through the roof. Look around the US and the UK - fucking heroin junkies everywhere. How many lives are being destroyed on the homefront? Kumbaya baby.

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