popeye

Yea another political thread. I finished work a little early and was looking for some substantial policy from Obama or his wife. Well needless to say I didn't find any policy outside of the normal crap that all democrats spew, but I did find this quote from his militant wife:

Quote from Michelle Obama

"Barack Obama will require you to work. He is going to demand that you shed your cynicism. That you put down your divisions. That you come out of your isolation, that you move out of your comfort zones. That you push yourselves to be better. And that you engage. Barack will never allow you to go back to your lives as usual, uninvolved, uninformed."

NO THANKS!!!! Stay the fuck out of my life COMRADE!

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loyolabenson

Hillary is more of a commie than Obama will ever be.

Alias

rofl

popeye

Screw em both

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turbolapp

You know the more you rant about Obama, the more I like him. He must be doing somethig right to get you all huffy and puffy.

popeye

So if I start pushing Obama, are you going to vote for Mccain?

Also I did find another interesting fact about some policy of Obama. Anyone making over 100k a year will see a tax increase of over 15% according to his plans. That policy alone makes me a supporter of whoever is running against him.

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symptic

It seems to me like you're taking that out of context. I'm assuming she means his methodologies will require us to work at the ridding of ineffective systems and ideals.

I support him tenfold over Hillary.

popeye

huh! so single handedly he is going to fly in and sweep all prejudices and bi-partisonships from not only Washington but from the country?

For any politician to beleive they can acomoplish that is simple minded and naive.

As far as I am concerned stating that "he will require" and "he will demand" is very straight forward.

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BrooklynBlue

How about a non-partisan link to verify that?

His tax platform targets $80 billion of tax relief at the middle class and fixed-income senior citizens, I don't see what's so wrong about that.

I'm not sure exactly what Obama is proposing on letting the Bush tax cuts expire (as McCain has proposed in the past too!), but I think you are completely misunderstanding what marginal tax rates mean. I'll take your example whether it's true or not: what that probably means is that all income over $100k will be taxed at 40% instead of 35%, or a 15% increase.
Not nearly as dire as you make it out to be and no different from how it was in 2000. So someone making $150k/yr would nominally pay $2500 more in taxes but not really b/c that's what accountants are for. Anyone making over $100k knows a good accountant is well worth the money.

Obama has also proposed letting capital gains tax rates go back in line with income tax rates. Do you honestly believe that massively wealthy investors like Stephen Schwartzman or T. Boone Pickens should be paying tax rates that are less than half what their secretaries pay?

harrymouni

the percentage might be half of what the secretaries pay but people like warren buffet still contibute vastly more taxes than the average joe in real terms.

anyone who votes democrat or left at all and is under 30 years is a fucking moron

BrooklynBlue

Warren Buffett is a terrible example, as he is one of the biggest proponents of raising taxes on the rich.

Who's the moron?

xXKingdom_SEOXx

I can understand your hate, but you need the pic up? ... u rlly hate Obama that bad...? (thread author).

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popeye

ouch...this is true

I really don't care how someone spins the percentages. Raising my taxes any more than they are is going to far. I have a good accountant and I still had to pay a huge amount in taxes this year.

That is money that I could either hire an employee or spend in our economy. Tax CUTS are what will save our economy not hand outs.

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popeye

I don't hate the man. I hate the global/socialist movement that he will "REQUIRE" or "DEMAND" we follow.

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xXKingdom_SEOXx

Now I get you, would hate to feel like a slave myself

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DruSam

The reason Obama has large and fervent support is his positive platform of hope and change. Politicians are only known for offering the public protection from negative things and nightmares (terrorism, global warming, illegal drug use, etc) the usual boogie man shit.

Hillary Clinton's campaign is based on negativity, and McCain's is based on scare tactics. People notice the sharp contrast when Obama comes into play.

I think his policies and accomplishments have little to do with his popularity.

BrooklynBlue

So in the example I gave, where the increased tax burden = 1.6% of income, is that really what will sway your ability to hire someone? Let's be real here, nothing that is being proposed will fundamentally alter anyone's behavior or consumption patterns EXCEPT maybe the poor and lower-middle class, which is the point. The marginal impact for people like you and me (assuming you truly make 6-figures) is puny. So cut the bluster already.

Our economy was in far better shape in the mid to late 90s before the Bush tax cuts. And those tax cuts plus the Iraq war are a HUGE reason the dollar is totally fucked and will be for years now.

The fiscal policies you are supporting are what put our economy in this hole in the first place.

And let's see some non-partisan links about Obama's TERRIBLE COMMIE COMING TO GET YOU policies. Where are they? Oh that's right, you don't have any.

If you paid attention in history class, you would remember that it is actually the Dems who saved you from the Commies when they were truly an internal threat - i.e. FDR, Eugene Debs, when the Communist Party USA and Social Party were powerful movements here.

The Cold War commies only threatened mutually assured destruction, not the overthrow of the U.S. government and economy.

turbolapp

You hit the nail on the head, Dru.

popeye

I so much agree with you. At least the supporters of Ron Paul belived in him for his policy. Obamabots follow him for the nice smile and the little tickle they get inside when they hear him speak.

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barman

RONPAUL4EVA

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nickycakes

I think a Ron Paul fan calling anyone else a "bot" is a touch ironic.

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BeerHat

Obama is an empty suit.

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DruSam

I think we can agree that a "bot" is one who unequivocally believes they are right and everyone else is wrong.

I've said it before, there would be nothing wrong with many of Obama, Clinton, and McCain's policies if they could pay for them with any honesty.

Our presidential candidates refuse to be truthful about how much debt the American public has.

Try $400,000 per household.

That is some deep shit in my opinion.

BrooklynBlue

So when confronted with an actual counter-argument all you can come back with is ad hominem attacks? Classy.

You know, you can disagree with someone without smearing them as the anti-Christ, including candidates for whom you won't be voting. It's a little childish, don't you think?

BeerHat

I got some great debt consolidation solutions for this.

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subigo

It just takes some searching to find his accomplishments... even though some people refuse to see it.

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DruSam

I like your thinking.

steveyoung

I don’t know if anyone watched the Democratic debate last night but I did. It was really a non-debate and I was hoping for blood. One thing I found interesting was Obama and Hillary agree on immigration. They are NOT going to build the fence instead, they want to “re-examine” this issue. PLEASE . . . politicians NEVER learn. BOTH Democrats and Republicans want the wall built. We proved that months ago but they think that enough time has lapsed to do what they want. Typical politicians, both of them.

DruSam

Walls can be cut and blown up, as seen by that influx of palestinians into egypt a few weeks ago.

You need to get rid of the social and economic incentives for illegals to attempt to make it over. And more border patrol would help.

But yeah, Obama and Clinton will ignore that entire issue.

popeye

not really I have watched his speeches. The 18 year old girls crying and people fainting and shit. Looks to me like he is more of a rock star rather than a suitable President.

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popeye

I found several bills he co-authored but I coudlnt find any that he authored on his own. As you may well know co-author doesnt mean shit.

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turbolapp

Mcain doesn't want a wall either. I'm actually surprised that all 3 are going against the grain. Good for them. And You should respect them for having some balls/ovaries (and common sense)to stand up against something that RETARDED. But, of course, you don't. And yet wasn't the previous rant where popeye was talking about the obamabot, just telling the masses what they want to hear?? Make up your mind people.

So I'm starting to glaze over with these "debates" as it will only go with what ever suits the Right's eternal need to spread fear and negativity.

Mahzkrieg

Ridiculous statement. Tolerating disagreeable policy because it's tolerable? You're not looking at the big picture.

popeye

"fear and negativity" the same fuckin shit I heard before we were attacked in 2001. This is a different world we live in today. If it were one of your family members that jumped to their death from the WTC..then I believe you would feel different.

We have to protect ourselves. The enemy wants to catch us with our guard down. They want us to negotiate. They want us to question the policies of the current admin.

The current polices have kept us from attack since 9/11. Once we are all holding hands singing songs they will strike again.

The majority of Americans want the wall. They want security. They want drug runners, gang members, terrorist as well as illegal immigrants out of this country.

I do not understand at all why someone would want to have an unsecure border. Let the legal immigrants in....keep the bad guys and illegals out. Its simple, its the law and its common sense.

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BrooklynBlue

Like you have exclusive claim to the "big picture", whatever that is.

I didn't say you have to "tolerate" it or go along if you do fundamentally disagree. What I instead was suggesting was intellectual honesty. It's the hyperbole, gross exaggeration, and misrepresentation that is ridiculous and embarrassing.

steveyoung

Turbolapp,

It is inaccurate to say that McCain “doesn’t” want a wall. To be correct, one would have to say he “didn’t” want a wall. He claims now to have learned his lesson that a wall will have to be built first. Obviously, you need to check your facts a little closer or lie a little better.

What I consider “RETARDED” is leaving our boarders open so that anyone can cross them anywhere and at anytime. Of course, liberals like you will never be convinced that this is a threat until something happens to you and then, you will just whine that nobody protected you from it.

turbolapp

Ooooh Did he flip? I guess that's keeping with the pattern. He also flipped on abortion. That's too bad, I'm starting to lose respect for him now. I would have never voted for him but at least I respected him for standing up for what he believed in even when it went against his party and or the majority.

And if you think the RETARDED fence idea is so smart and is most important to prevent terrorism then why isn't anyone purposing a fence on the canadian border, huh? I'll tell you why, because you put up a front and pretend that you're only concerned about terriosts but what you're really concerned with this is those damn mexicans sneaking in.

oogie1947

Popeye is right on. We need to protect our borders, build the wall, kick out the illegals, after all illegal means they broke the law, if you break the law, you should be punished. Send them back to where ever they came from. If I was a legal immigrant it would really piss me off that illegals may get amnesty and I had waited for up to 5 years to get here.

I am not happy with any of the choices for our next Commander in Chief but at least McCain is strong on defense whereas the others are questionable to say the least.

My basic feeling about government is "He who is governed least, is governed best." That works for taxes also.

I am one of the "angry white men" who are tired of being taken advantage of, taxed at too high of rates, told how to live my life, discipline my kids, told what I am permitted to say about others because of their color or religion, tired of criminals having more rights than their victims, needing a permit to carry a firearm, and all the other stuff that others think they know better than me what is best for me.

BrooklynBlue

Then you must be really sick of the Republicans, as they have held the Presidency for 20 of the last 28 years. Man, those liberals are really keeping you down. Yeah white dudes have it so rough. Kill blackey.

sorry, snowed in and drinking. can't help but talk shit.

droobleZ

Fuck I hate these threads.
I sure wish I knew something about the candidates.

popeye

If you know nothing about the candidates then join the OBAMABOTS..you will fit in fine.

I had to throw that in...sorry

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DruSam

A border fence isn't going to solve the issue people. You have to destroy the incentives for illegals to take the risk to travel here.

As for deporting the ones already here...There are 12 million illegals. Not only do you have to find them. You have to round them up, sometimes by force. I can't even begin to imagine what a logistical and political nightmare that will be. I'm going to say impossible.

The best we can do is increase border patrol, destroy the incentives for future illegals to come here, and transform the current illegals into productive tax paying citizens.

That's the sane, not so expensive way to do it.

steveyoung

Turbolapp,

Yep, MaCain did “flip” on the wall. He got the message. The wall will be “job 1”.

I didn’t say NOT to build a wall along our Canadian boarder. I believe that is “job 2.”

subigo

Speak for yourself. My cousin died in the WTC.

"They want us to question the policies of the current admin..."

That's your job as an American citizen... and you are the one talking about robots.

Oh... and show me your source for "The majority of Americans want the wall."

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popeye

Illegal aliens are part of the problem. Drug runners, violent criminals, mexican gangs and terrorist are the main reason we need a wall and more border security.

You do know that our national gaurd stationed on the border have been fired upon by mexican military...inside the united states?.

You do know that violent attacks toward our border patrol has risen 30% just this year alone.

You do know that there has been several middle eastern illegals captured while crossing the border to the US?

You do know that members of the mexican army that went AWOL who now work for the drug lords have been captured while crossing the border?

You do know that numerous US citizens this year have been kidnapped and taken back over the border to mexico?

Isn't this enough to shut the border down and protect our own. This isnt Mexico. Build a wall stock it with US military and let the mexicans stand in line and apply for citizenship like every other immigrant.

I don't understand it's simple logic

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steveyoung

DruSam,

The “issue” isn’t one of a few million Mexicans coming across the boarder to earn money; it is the one terrorist that might come across that worries me. Our government and our citizens must do EVERYTHING in our power to stop that one terrorist. Now, we have no idea if he is already here.

popeye

Why do you think the last bill concerning border security didnt pass. Why do you think alot of Repulicans are turning on G.Bush.

The senate recieved so many phone calls and faxes..it shut their system down for a time. These were calls AGAINST amnesty.

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popeye

Sorry, I supported Romney. However, I do appreciate the fact that Ron Paul was a candidate that put his policy on his sleeve. He didn't hide it behind well written speeches (even if they were someone else's speech) stating "WE NEED CHANGE" five hundred times.

It did seem to me that most of the RP supporters were very intelligent and knew his policy and the policy's of the other candidates.

I am sorry to say but I do not see that same characteristic in Obama supporters.

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BrooklynBlue

^^^ Today's lesson: Confirmation bias

symptic

Why are we bickering over building a wall? That's one of the least important issues we have to handle, and I don't think it's something we can realistically combat until we get our other affairs in order.