Jon

I am seriously considering ending the $25k contest..

The reason for it is because as I get more and more in-depth into the new resource section for WickedFire that is launching by next month, I keep wanting to give more and more shit away for free.

When I first started my blog, I figured I'd charge for consulting, but I just got lazy and irritated by it, and even though nearly $15k in pre-orders streamed in, I lost interested and decided "fuck it, I'll give it away for free".

Then came the idea of making a premium section on this forum for paid members. Again, hounded by loads of emails and people willing to pay $50+ per month to get into it. Granted I had a shitload of great ideas well worth it, but then as it drew nearer I thought "fuck it, I'll give it away for free", again!

I feel like this is a sales pitch for an ebook, but really, it's just going back to the whole "keep shit for free for once" plan. And that's what I want WickedFire to be, the experience of it at least. I want it to be free for everyone to use whenever they please. I mean seriously, when you think about ebooks, and the false promises they make, it always costs something like $30-$150, and then when you crack it open, you see shit in there that you either already knew, or that wasn't what it was all advertised to be, so you feel gipped. Well, that's how I feel in some ways now..

I have so many ideas for the resource section. I'm purposely hiring members from here as contractors for the job too, so that it's built by WF members for the WF members. There are so many fucking cool sections that are going to be added, and so much goddamn free content and tools that I really believe it will change the industry and how data and content is passed onto webmasters.

So why do I want to get rid of the $25k contest? Because, as cool as it would be to mentor a few people here and there on what to do to make some cash, truth be told, everyone will be able to learn it with the stuff I have in store for the new sections. In fact, it would free up a ton of my time so that I can put more sweat and work into the new section, rather than trying to figure out how to mentor some people and deliver on my promise within that time period. Also, as awesome as giving away consulting to someone who really needs it, I'm still going to be doing that whole teaching format, but with a new style in the free premium section.

The resource premium section is going to be fucking huge. No joke about that. And overall, I just want to be able to keep it free for everyone to use. Let the advertisers foot the bill to keep everything running so that this community can grow as a whole with everyone learning and giving back to the community rather than just a few people here and there learning to make some money and then disappearing into the void.

What do you guys think? Be honest as always too...

I would love to get rid of the contest and focus on getting WF to the top of the food chain as far as being one of the big boys in the media/press/news/education of the affiliate/webmaster/seo/traffic guy industry. I'm going to need everyone's help in the long run too, but this is OUR industry, so let's think longterm instead of selfish short term.

Whaddaya say?

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Michel Z.

Great stuff Jon!
I can't wait to see your new resource section...
Since I joined your forum, I didn't visit other forums much.
THIS IS THE PLACE TO BE
Cheers mate!

kuntek

Just get rid of $25k contest and keep on with the new resource section.

I fully support you!

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Affiliate Project X - Day Job Killer - Build A Niche Store

Moobrack

I'm all for the resource section, very gracious of you.

Prepare to lose some of the cockend members who only came for the contest in the first place.

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BLOG BLOG BLOG BLOG

Stylemangi

Mate, just do what you gotta do...I am sure most people here would greatly appreciate what you are going to put into the resource section.

Thanks in advance

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StyleMangi
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How to buy Joes Jeans :

SohaibT

I would also like to see a resource section with the things you described, especially that its going to be free, this will benefit everyone instead of 2 guys, and you'll probably spend the same time on both, so why not spend it on something that will benefit everyone.

TheLearner

Great idea Jon!
This forum is really an awesome place to seriously learn about internet marketing.

Thank you.

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I'm here to learn.

Xrproto

I think it's a great idea. It would benifit everyone from vets to newbies, in which the 25k contest would have been really hard for a newbie to win.

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I can assure you I am as insane as the next man.

Uzzz

i guess the particepents of the contest should respond, since they the ones who are prolly gonna be pissed....buttt i say scratch that contest anyways

....ya and i agree w/mz - i don't visit other forums anymore...

DruSam

Scrap that shit. Just make the new resource section the most kick-ass thing to hit internet marketing world.

Jon

Well that's the idea.. We are working on completely original concepts for content delivery, and as I've said before, I have to copyright some of them because no one else has it. I really just want to blurt out and tell everyone what we are working on, but that would spoil the surprise, plus if competitors found out before it launched, they may jack my ideas. But waiting until late Sept/early Oct isn't too bad.

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xspark

I want my 25k!! Arrrg!! You pense!! hahaha j/k

Although, I didn't sign it, I agreed. I would like you to spend more time on a resource section, helping everyone in the long run, then selfish short term. But who am I to decide.

Uzzz

how bout we all just blurt out those deep secrets all at the same time ...

Ill go first....
....
..anddd go....
.
umm...
..
................................hmmmmm
...
ya i got nothing....
....
ah well....YOUR ALL WORSELESS AND WEAK! ....thats why im here...

tangem2

Scrap the 25k and get us some quality content.

Squirrelinabox

Well, you asked for honest so here it is...

Jon, you definitely seem to know what you're doing with affiliate marketing and with generating hype for yourself and your ventures, however, you've shown yourself to be incredibly unreliable as a "host". You've offered up various contests that you haven't delivered on, you hype everybody up for various projects and don't follow through (podcast, private "guaranteed" section, etc).

All things things look really bad IMO. I, personally, know now not to ever invest much time into this place for contests and know not to count on anything you promise until you actually deliver it. This is harsh, I know, but it's honest.

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Net Morality
Just because you're hiding behind a computer screen doesn't mean your actions don't have consequences.

vizilla

I was thinking about joining the 25k contest but decided not to because of the past contest. I'm VERY glad I did not.

Jon, honestly this is just confirming what others have been accusing you of: being a total blowhard.

Some people hear really put their heart into writing some very good article threads. Not to mention giving up their best secrets and inviting competition (something most, including me and you, are not doing).

Jack Swift

I didn't participate in the contest, but the contest is what made me hear about WickedFire.

I think cancelling the contest would really be bad for WickedFire as a community. After all, there's already been one contest cancelled. I would be very hesitant to get involved in anything knowing it could disappear at the drop of a hat.

Not to mention, it's kind of lame to do that when a bunch of people have spent a lot of time writing articles, etc.

CreationNation

Not to take any sides or rub any one wrong (serious, I don't like doing that) but I can see both sides of this issue.

Jon is passionate and enthusiastic about creating solutions, offerings, avenues and wanting to help people by sharing the knowledge he has, and seems to have so many ideas they just roll from mind to fingertips and get posted here without thinking of the potential end result and how popular his contests may be. Luckily I don't have the $$ Jon does or may be in the same situation! I find myself having so many ideas that it's hard to keep track and figure how to do everything in my head, it's literally overwhelming and I am always trying to think of cool ways to promote my sites, build them up, etc.

On the flip side, I do see everyone's concern about the contests issue Jon. While some of the people who competed in the contests to date may have had the extra time to put into them so there was no real "investment", I am sure quite a few did not but decided to "invest" the time in order to win and benefit from the prize. While people should make worthwhile posts ANY how around here, quite a few of the people shooting for the 25k prize may have went above and beyond what they could afford to spend time on posting here and helping others.

Now with ALL THAT said, I think you are quite the awesome and generous individual to be doing what you do here, especially working on the differnet WF stuff you are right now. I know I am excited to see it come to fruition. I do agree that you'll probably find yourself with less headaches going the route you are, you won't find your day eaten up with contest winner time committment duties either.

Maybe the solution is to keep going down the route you are going with your plans, scratch all contests (and don't start any more damn it! ) and maybe take whoever is ranking near the top of this 25k contest and offer some private messaging /instant messaging "extra" assistance on an as needed basis, using the materials that get released here this/next month. Just some extra helpful Q&A here and there on an as needed basis.

Just a thought.

tangem2

I agree, I think the people that have put in work to date deserve to be rewarded for their efforts.

Jon

Oh I totally agree with you guys about me being a bad contest runner. I have the ideas, but no real follow through, which is why I want to scrap the $25k contest so that there are no more major contests being run solely by me. Instead, all of the future major contests will be run with a partner site/network who provides the prizes instead, so that everything won will be delivered.

I know it looks bad, but honestly, I don't care about my image. If I did, I would have named this forum "Jon's Forum" and not WickedFire. Notice that the name and brand have absolutely nothing to do with being an affiliate or a webmaster. I'm a big fan of branding with names that will be noticed and remembered for sounding different or cool, rather than trying to stick keywords into it. (this is completely off topic too, lol)

But back to the point. I don't have a problem with the $25k contest, only that I will have to divide my time up and I won't be able to focus on the new resource sections. I can assure you, that if I didn't care about people stealing the ideas, I would list them out over here, and I am almost sure 99% of you would be in awe of what's to come.

Yes, I have a talent for hyping people up, but I'm not doing it with cruel intentions, nor am I using any lies or false advertising methods. I know I have great ideas, and many times those great ideas fall through because of my extremely shitty follow through. That's one of my biggest and weakest characteristics too. I'm blessed with being able to think of ways to monetize almost anything, and I have a knack for coming up with really innovative and original ideas, but when it comes to applying them, or following through, I am cursed. I've had so many great ideas for this place that I hadn't put into play because I know myself. If I could have followed through and proven to everyone that it's worth their while to participate for the end result of any given contest, I'd be a hell of a lot more popular about them than I am now, but I too have major flaws, just like everyone else. Which goes to show you, I'm just a regular guy like anyone else, even though people think I'm higher up, I'm definitely not.

By ending the $25k contest it would be the last major WickedFire contest. I'm not saying this is the end of them, because it's certainly not. But it would be the end of WickedFire having it's own big contests with no partners to sponsor prizes or to make it fun. I have plans to launch many more contests with other networks, similar to the one we are running with XY7 right now. I think contests like that would generate a hell of a lot more positive responses, plus more user activity. The other WF contests I had going, like the post or refer members was to drum up new signups, but I see now that that's not the right direction to be going in. A month or two ago, I would have rather had 10,000 new joins, but now, I'd rather have 500 new joins that are all active instead of 100,000 new joins that just sit there and read and don't participate.

This WickedFire project means a lot to me. I get asked all the time by bloggers, peers, and journalists in our field "why do you do it?". Why do I do it you ask? Because SOMEONE needs to, and since no one else out there wanted to do it, I feel as if I need to take it upon myself and bring something out here for everyone to use for free to further our careers as internet marketers. Everyone else charges for stuff like this, and I've always been a fan of letting advertisers pay the bills, rather than the users. It will also award those who actively contribute, rather than those just joining and sitting around.

I will make everyone here a promise. Give me one full year to prove that WickedFire will become one of the biggest webmaster communities and resources for our industry, and if not, I'll disappear and redirect all of the traffic here to something that is better. But if I do pull it off, all I want is an apology from anyone doubting my abilities to make this place the fucking greatest and most reliable resource for affiliates, black hatters, white hatters, seo, designers, programmers, affiliate managers, affiliate networks, merchants and bloggers.

My overall goal is to make this place become what should have been created years ago. A one stop resource for EVERYTHING in the internet marketing industry. WickedFire will be a household name amongst all of our peers within one year. So if by September 2007 if I can't pull it off, I'll let everyone else decide my fate. But I can almost guarantee you all that in a year from now, you will all look back and say "I was a member here before WF became a powerhouse", and having June 2006 and July 2006 as your join date will make you the coolest kids on the block here.

Sorry for the novel, but WickedFire is my hobby, project, and newfound passion for this industry. I honestly love this industry. The good, the bad and the ugly of it. But when it comes down to it, this is the place I want to stay in for my entire career, however many years it is down the road, I consider it my obligation to make sure the industry only grows stronger for years to come.

Enjoy the novel.

PS - I've never written a post like this with so much heart and feeling, so enjoy it now, because chances of me doing it again are slim to none. But I do love this place, and I'm going to make it great for everyone, and always keep it free for the users. That's a promise I will never back out on. So think what you will about me, my past contests, posts or blogs about me that bash me, but there is a change coming, and I'm going to be the one behind it. So if you don't like me or my old contests that caused controversy, leave this place and go try and find some place better, because you're regret that choice once the new sections go live.

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tangem2

nice post Jon, I personally can't wait to see the new sections and I hope they live up to the hype.

DruSam

Thanks for that post Jon. nearly brought a tear to my eye. Just remember that you still have a lot of support. Prove the naysayers wrong. There are plenty of us that got your back.

Xrproto

I'm sorry but I can't stop laughing and no I'm not laughing at Jon nor am I trying to kiss any ass either.

I don't know but if your only intentions here was/is to try and win some contest I do not feel sorry for you at all. I don't know why but I just take them as perks and if for some chance I happen to ever win a contest that would be cool. I just won't loss my wad over something I never had to begin with.

Regardless if a contest inspired you to write some article or share some of your secrets you should have done it for the site/community first and without a blooding contest in mind.

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I can assure you I am as insane as the next man.

Jon

I'm not trying to pick a fight between me and members who think that I've failed with this place or who think that it's a bad idea. I'm a firm believer that after you realize you've made a mistake, you come right out and admit it, which I did in that previous post. I'm going to trust my gut on this, and the gut says, kill the contest, even if it brings in a negative response, because it's just not meant to be. Sort of a "cut your losses" approach. Because the resource section is going to be fucking kick ass compared to any contest I could ever roll out.

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stealth

Screw the contest and roll out the resources is my vote.

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-Stealth

Jon

Thank you. Finally someone gets it.

The contest for the $25k and for the articles was created so that this place could get more original content. After reviewing the whole contest model as an incentive, I realized that if you're here just to win contests, then I don't want you here at all. There are plenty of other forums that will take you in. Hell, if it's cash you're after, make a fucking ebook and charge for the info like all of those other assholes do (not all of them are assholes or bad, but 99% are).

If you add content here, you are doing so of your own free will from now on to contribute to the community as a whole. The more active participants a community has, the more alive it is, and the more new users it will generate.

I started in this industry when I was 14-15 years old. No one taught me. There were no real forums where we could read articles on how to do this or that, or which tactics work here or there. Everything we learned was completely new and nearly everything was untested too. Colleges don't teach this shit yet (I think they will someday), so communities and resources are our only outlet for learning. Why do you think sites that have large communities do so well in the long run? Because they have active users who constantly contribute information.

It's all about sharing information for free. If you joined here looking to make bank on some articles or for being active here, leave. Seriously. I don't want your business here. I want people that are here for the longrun. People with a good sense of humor, that just want to kick back and share ideas and content.

The contests are merely temporary perks, so instead of constantly relying on temporary perks, I figured, let's kill it off, and create a permanent perk.

You will need a certain amount of credibility and activity under your belt to access certain areas of the resource section. You will need to be active in participating in conversation and contributing content. You'll never have to spend any money, but because you participated and gave it your all for now defunct contests, your reward in the end will be much more beneficial I think. Instead of trying your hardest and losing a contest, now everyone has a much better shot, and there are no limits on who gets inside. Just meet the minimum requirements, and you're in! How fucking easy is that? That to me, also sounds like one hell of a great alternative to a contest where only a few people would benefit.

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chrislingle

Jon, you can't please all people all the time. One of the reasons I am in this business is because I only have to please myself! You have already done more for the true members than anyone else online. I don't think I have been to shit point in 3 or 4 months and hardly at dp or earners since I found this place. Sure there are some worseless idiots here, (me included) but I think you would serve a larger market by ending the contest I say that cause it makes it easier for me to get access but maybe find the people that were doing the most for the contest and do something for them, send them a t shirt or give them 1 hour phone consult. If they complain however fuck em!

Jon

Well, the design contests will still exist here, because they are minor contests, and are just plain funny.

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Ben

I was picked up as a designer for this project and I have seen what is coming, let me just tell you that it is just as big if not bigger than what Jon makes it out to be.

Some seriously ground breaking ideas. When I'm done designing for it, it will for sure be the highlight of my portfolio.

Ending the contest sucks, especially for those who really got into it. All I can say is what was done, was done for the future of the forum. It's really going to take a direction that no other forum has ever gone, and it needs a lot of attention. Keep in mind that Jon isn't going to bank off of this, this is really for the community... no hidden agenda.

This is one of my favorite projects, and I can't wait for the response when it is launched!

trigatch4

Estimated Time of Arrival?

Jon

Later this month - early October


There are a few stages that need to be done in different parts. Lots of design, development, and coding. All of it from scratch too.

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Jon

I wanted to wait for more senior members to post and voice their opinions, so if you have something to add, please do so, negative or positive. Both are always accepted.

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JDA

I personally think it's a good plan to give things away for free, as I think I said in a different thread. The sponsored contests really seem to be the way to go as well, so I think it's a win win.

But I'm not someone who attempted the 25k contest, I suppose I might feel differently if I had.

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trigatch4

I have a bias opinion.

I would loved to have won the 25k contest but am more of a newb so have asked more questions than I have answers. Personally, I think this informational area you're speaking of is an amazing idea that could, if it's what it's touted to be, revolutionize the sharing of information and resources for internet marketers and entrepreneurs.

On the same token, those who were seriously devout to winning the 25k contest have to be dissappointed in the least. They contributed valuable content that took hard work and time to prepare. Although you're now spreading the wealth evenly, the possibility of getting their "unfair share" is the motivation behind a contest of this magnitude.

I'm sure many of the top article posters in this contest (me not being one of them) are distraught they recieve no compensation (above and beyond other forum members). I also doubt they'll voice their opinion for fear of being called out as selfish WFers who just want the money. But that's what we're all here for in the long run... the money.

I say hell yeah, this area is going to be fucking amazing... and Jon you're the man for putting it together. I also think the top performers should get some type of door prize to reward them for their efforts. Why? 2 reasons. They were promised compensation and they deserve something. But they deserve something because they have contributed to the growth and value of this forum for their efforts. It's not as if they won a contest for posting "the funniest picture".

In summary, hooray for the premium area! (and give some door prizes to top contestants... because they earned it)

fenryr

wow, that was gay

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chris22

Was there really a lot of people participating anyway?

I forgot about it, I thought people were just genuinely interested in helping each other

DruSam

Thanks, but I was poking fun at how passionate he was jackass.

fenryr

hehe, kk..

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DanNicol

I say dump it. short simple and to the point.

BTW - you all are worseless bastards

Mill

May I?

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I will take a review copy of this and that and this.. " WTF EVER "

Jon

Well, first I extended it from October to Jan 2007 because there were no clear winners in the running. It was also hard as all hell to keep track of, and if winners were chosen, people would wonder "what did they do exactly to deserve it?" which in turn would have sparked it's own thread of controversy and false accusations. I like confrontation on forums, but not when half the natives are pissed off.

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Mill

Ok fuck it, here goes//////

Jon and members first off the majority of you guys rock, some of you are just worseless fucks, like dru and dan (j/k)

I agree with Jan in saying that the contests do create a certain vibe or excitement in the community, but in a way it is sad. I get motivated and new ideas hitting me almost everyday when i venture into the pits of hell here. This is a community and a lot of people here really like this place. And for those who think a contest will ruin this place, well they are ones who shouldnt be here in the first place. This place isnt all take take take, you need to give something back, even if it is just a simple thank you to let the person who helped you know that you got something out of what the fuck they said. You never really know how much it does for me to know that my knowledge in a certain area helped someone.

The contests aint gonna kill this forum. A lot of the members here like me lived on sitepoint and DP for years, but found a new place or home here. UNCENSORED Too, which is an added bonus. This forum has helped a lot of people in such a short amount of time, and that alone dwarfs other boards that I have been on. The senior members here arent shitheads who think that they walk on water and your worseless. They genuinely try and be as helpful as possible. That makes wickedfire the place it is , not some contest.

now on to you jon.......

I do have to say if you want to run a contest, follow through. Some of the points made were valid and i can see some of the people being upset. Me personally i contribute as much as i can, but dont ever think about winning because well, when i try i never win contests... But for future reference if you do decide to run a contest, make it easier for you to manage, and maybe take a poll to see if the members think it will come to fruition.
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you wrote this,,,,,
But back to the point. I don't have a problem with the $25k contest, only that I will have to divide my time up and I won't be able to focus on the new resource sections. I can assure you, that if I didn't care about people stealing the ideas, I would list them out over here, and I am almost sure 99% of you would be in awe of what's to come.

You say you dont want to list this worldchanging ideas out in the open due to people stealing your ideas or them getting released to the world. Whats to keep that from happening in a members area?? Yes I know you say that it will be members based on certain criteria, but I would really like to know that what you and others post in this section want become mainstream in a few weeks time. Make everyone sign a NDA and take a fund to prosecute the people who leak the info..lol.

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you wrote this...
If you joined here looking to make bank on some articles or for being active here, leave. Seriously. I don't want your business here. I want people that are here for the longrun. People with a good sense of humor, that just want to kick back and share ideas and content.

My thoughts
I am in total agreeance with you, I for one think that all forums should have a monthly post count each member needs to hit, that way we weed out all the lurkers and negative people who most likely want ever contribute anyways... Most people would say " wait that is stupid, that will kill your forum"... I say people who say that are Worseless , getting rid of the fags and negative assholes will only make the community that much more stronger and tight knit.

Finally you wrote,,,,
You will need a certain amount of credibility and activity under your belt to access certain areas of the resource section. You will need to be active in participating in conversation and contributing content. You'll never have to spend any money, but because you participated and gave it your all for now defunct contests, your reward in the end will be much more beneficial I think. Instead of trying your hardest and losing a contest, now everyone has a much better shot, and there are no limits on who gets inside. Just meet the minimum requirements, and you're in! How fucking easy is that? That to me, also sounds like one hell of a great alternative to a contest where only a few people would benefit.

You gonna let us know what these requirements are, or keep it a secret. Both is beneficial, if you dont let people know in advance then you keep the forums clean of crap posts.
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Overall I have no issue with this decision you made, and feel that the private area will benefit more people in the long run. My only concern is that the private area want stay private long and the info will be slung out to all the other shitty forums, which wil make the impact the private area has less enticing.

Let the neg rep fly, i know some people out there hate me,,,, lmao

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I will take a review copy of this and that and this.. " WTF EVER "

Mill

WORSELESS FUCKERS

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I will take a review copy of this and that and this.. " WTF EVER "

Jon

Maybe I'll pull a Google and just keep quiet and have everyone guessing. I'll definitely let people know the minimums, which may be tough for some to meet, but fuck it, if you can't spend the time to contribute, then why should you reap the benefits?

Overall you have some valid points and ideas, but you're overusing the Worseless word, and just whoring it out now!

+rep anyhow for voicing your opinions.

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Penguin

Do it, not like I had a chance to win anyway.

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SEO Peng

Visual Depth

I may be bias because there is no way in hell I could possibly win the contest....but I say scrap it!

Karnul

I already find WF valuable. Only site I visit more than once a day.

Making it better for everyone trumps contests... IMO.

Charlie

JOn I think your post about there being no clear winners and the fact that no one has posted here saying "I really thought I was in the running to win and have put my life on hold to do so" etc should be support enough to cancel the contest.

oogie1947

Jon, I am one of the ones that visits often but does not post much as I am such a newbie. I have learned much and appreciate this forum and the folks that are so knowledgable in so many areas. It has been a great help. Thanks.

As far as the contest goes it makes no difference to me. I know that I cannot win so I am not here for the contests anyway.

DruSam

Good point.