Why would anyone on this forum be a democrat??

[tweak50]

Originally Posted by invisible777

There's better things to whine about than fucking spinach, for fucks sake. I think I paid like 2 or 3 bucks for a bag the other day, no big deal.

Regular gas on the other hand was $3.89 on my way home tonight. That's worth whining about...

Your missing the point. Someone pointed out how poor people in America are fat, I'm just offering an explanation. Spinach was just an example, you could replace it with any other healthy food and the results would be the same.

[Sawya]

[turbolapp]

^Interesting. Would you post the link to that chart please? I see cbo.gov but that's a big freakin site.

[popeye]

Originally Posted by minnatrix

Yes, and nobody forced Bush to issue a stop-loss in which he can extend a person's tour by any amount of time he wants. There's also national guards in Iraq serving years when they only signed up to serve a couple of weeks a year.

If you join the military (even the Guard) hopefully you understand that it is entirly possible that you might be sent off for an undetermined amount of time to fight enemies as the Commander and Chief sees fit. Even as a Guard member you are compensated not only for your weekend a month and 2 weeks a year but also to be on "call" if you are needed elsewhere.

Our military is 100% voluntary. If you feel that you might not want to spend a couple of years in Iraq, etc getting shot at. then it is simple: DONT SIGN UP.

Problem is its not our soldiers that are worried about having to spend extra months/years in the Middle East. It's the civillians back home that really know nothing of what's really going on in the Middle east, that are all up in arms. Reinlistment is off the chart for our soldiers. Our armed forces are not having any problems whatsoever in meeting their enlistment and re-inlistment goals. Why you ask? Because are soldiers are the best in the world and the they know the importance of their task in the Middle East and are determined to complete those task. If that means spending 4 years in hell hole Iraq and then re-inlisting for another 4, then so be it.

[erect]

Nobody is stopping you rich Democrats from paying more taxes than you currently do. Just send the IRS an extra check and put "feed the ghetto" in the memo section and I'm sure the gov't will make those funds available to the people that need it.

Or is one person paying more taxes than another not fair even if that money goes to the people who are less fortunate. Sounds like republican thinking to me.

Just think, if you do that and solve the problems you are bitching about here you can call republicans whatever you want with a clear conscience. Until then you are just asking for a handout.

Here's another point for you to think about ... What social class contains most drug dealers? How about prostitutes? How much in taxes do they pay? I bet if we actually got tax money coming from the bucket that we would have the funds available to feed those that actually need the help.

Ridding ourselves of the IRS and implementing a flat national sales tax solves the above problems and puts everyone on a level playing field. It's fair for everyone because it taxes what you spend not what you make. And we finally get taxes on multi-billion dollar businesses like slinging pods and pimpin' hoes.

Go ahead liberals, flame me for my logical conservative views.

[johu]

Now if only conservatives were actually fiscally conservative...

The Grand Old Spending Party: How Republicans Became Big Spenders
Republicans and Big Government - James Ostrowski - Mises Institute

Cutting taxes and expanding government (even excluding military spending) just doesn't work. I can't support the party of "limited government" when they actually expand government, and when their socially conservative policies are intruding into how citizens live their lives (not to mention any other government intrusions this administration has supported).

[Sawya]

Conservatives just dislike big government when they're not the ones running it. When they are in power they find that they actually quite like it.

[popeye]

Originally Posted by johu

Now if only conservatives were actually fiscally conservative...

The Grand Old Spending Party: How Republicans Became Big Spenders
Republicans and Big Government - James Ostrowski - Mises Institute

Cutting taxes and expanding government (even excluding military spending) just doesn't work. I can't support the party of "limited government" when they actually expand government, and when their socially conservative policies are intruding into how citizens live their lives (not to mention any other government intrusions this administration has supported).

You are correct. The Republicans today are acting like democrats and that's why I have a problem with the current administration.

George Bush minus a few war policies and the against murdering babys thing, IS a freakin democrat. He has spent more on social programs than any President in history. He is sending more aid to Africa than any President in history.

The Party of Lincoln needs new leadership. We need to move more towards the values the party was founded upon.

Though, I will give GWB a gold star for the fact that we have not been attacked on US soil since 9/11, even though many extremist have tried to plot it.

[LazyHippy]

Originally Posted by popeye

Our military is 100% voluntary. If you feel that you might not want to spend a couple of years in Iraq, etc getting shot at. then it is simple: DONT SIGN UP.

I completely agree with you (for a change!).

My sister's in the Navy and has spent a few proportion of the last few years in Basra. (Half the reason I'm following this election so closely - whoever wins, the government here will undoubtedly follow them like sheep.) I'd fuckin hate for anything to happen to her, but she made that choice with her eyes open (well, as open as they can be at 17).

Leaving aside friends and family as that's different, I feel sadder when I hear about another innocent Iraqi killed than I do about the death of a British or US soldier who chose that life.

I know recruiters are pretty good salesmen and target poor areas where it may seem like the only option, there's probably a fair amount of social pressure too, but they do have a choice, unlike most of the victims of this conflict.

[tweak50]

Originally Posted by popeye

Though, I will give GWB a gold star for the fact that we have not been attacked on US soil since 9/11, even though many extremist have tried to plot it.

Not trying to flame on this, but do you have links to any proof of that statement? I'm honestly interested in reading about them if you do.

[LazyHippy]

Originally Posted by popeye

Though, I will give GWB a gold star for the fact that we have not been attacked on US soil since 9/11, even though many extremist have tried to plot it.

I knew me agreeing with you wouldn't last.. oh well, it was fun while it lasted.

I kinda surprised there hasn't been another one yet, especially when Bush & co have done so well at turning a handful of extremists into armies of millions of flag-burning jihadists. Maybe they are waiting til after the election - when they need another war or a good excuse to reduce civil liberties even further?

[popeye]

Originally Posted by tweak50

Not trying to flame on this, but do you have links to any proof of that statement? I'm honestly interested in reading about them if you do.

I will post them in a bit...working on a project ATM

[BeerHat]

Originally Posted by tweak50

Not trying to flame on this, but do you have links to any proof of that statement? I'm honestly interested in reading about them if you do.

December 2001, Richard Reid: British citizen attempted to ignite shoe bomb on flight from Paris to Miami.

• May 2002, Jose Padilla: American citizen accused of seeking "dirty bomb," convicted of conspiracy.

• September 2002, Lackawanna Six: American citizens of Yemeni origin convicted of supporting Al Qaeda. Five of six were from Lackawanna, N.Y.

• May 2003, Iyman Faris: American citizen charged with trying to topple the Brooklyn Bridge.

• June 2003, Virginia Jihad Network: Eleven men from Alexandria, Va., trained for jihad against American soldiers, convicted of violating the Neutrality Act, conspiracy.

• August 2004, Dhiren Barot: Indian-born leader of terror cell plotted bombings on financial centers (see additional images).

• August 2004, James Elshafay and Shahawar Matin Siraj: Sought to plant bomb at New York's Penn Station during the Republican National Convention.

• August 2004, Yassin Aref and Mohammed Hossain: Plotted to assassinate a Pakistani diplomat on American soil.

• June 2005, Father and son Umer Hayat and Hamid Hayat: Son convicted of attending terrorist training camp in Pakistan; father convicted of customs violation.

• August 2005, Kevin James, Levar Haley Washington, Gregory Vernon Patterson and Hammad Riaz Samana: Los Angeles homegrown terrorists who plotted to attack National Guard, LAX, two synagogues and Israeli consulate.

• December 2005, Michael Reynolds: Plotted to blow up refinery in Wyoming, convicted of providing material support to terrorists.

• February 2006, Mohammad Zaki Amawi, Marwan Othman El-Hindi and Zand Wassim Mazloum: Accused of providing material support to terrorists, making bombs for use in Iraq.

• April 2006, Syed Haris Ahmed and Ehsanul Islam Sadequee: Cased and videotaped the Capitol and World Bank for a terrorist organization.

• June 2006, Narseal Batiste, Patrick Abraham, Stanley Grant Phanor, Naudimar Herrera, Burson Augustin, Lyglenson Lemorin, and Rotschild Augstine: Accused of plotting to blow up the Sears Tower.

• July 2006, Assem Hammoud: Accused of plotting to hit New York City train tunnels.

• August 2006, Liquid Explosives Plot: Thwarted plot to explode ten airliners over the United States.

• May 2007, Fort Dix Plot: Six men accused of plotting to attack Fort Dix Army base in New Jersey.

• June 2007, JFK Plot: Four men accused of plotting to blow up fuel arteries underneath JFK Airport in New York.

• March 2007, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed: Mastermind of Sept. 11 and author of numerous plots confessed in court in March 2007 to planning to destroy skyscrapers in New York, Los Angeles and Chicago.

[tweak50]

Where did you get the info from?

[johu]

Though I guess this was a bit too close to 9/11, does anyone remember the anthrax letters? I'd consider those acts of terrorism, especially since people died from it... still unsolved.

[LazyHippy]

Originally Posted by johu

Though I guess this was a bit too close to 9/11, does anyone remember the anthrax letters? I'd consider those acts of terrorism, especially since people died from it... still unsolved.

Interesting....

On 9 May 2002, New Scientist published an article that reported:

'The DNA sequence of the anthrax sent through the US mail in 2001 has been revealed and confirms suspicions that the bacteria originally came from a US military laboratory. The data released uses codenames for the reference strains against which the attack strain was compared. The two reference strains that appear identical to the attack strain most likely originated at the US Army Medical Research Institute for Infectious Diseases at Fort Detrick (USAMRIID), Maryland.
The new work also shows that substantial genetic differences can emerge in two samples of an anthrax culture separated for only three years. This means the attacker's anthrax was not separated from its ancestors at USAMRIID for many generations.' [27]

It's all really dodgy.. finger's being pointed everywhere from Iraq to the CIA. Kinda looks like it's 'unsolved' for a reason.

[bobby]

Some Numbers
$4,950,000,000,000 trillion Dollars is the price tag on iraq/afghanistan
$3.586 national gas average today 4-25-08
301,139,947 united states citizens

What Iraq and Afghanistan is costing us?

$16,437 could be refunded to each citizen.. (Nice replacement to kicker eh?)
4584 gallons of gasoline per citizen (I use ~80 gallons a month That would be gas paid for 57.3 months for me)
That’s a car for anyone who wants one...
That’s food for anyone that’s hungry.
That’s a good chunk of cash towards medical insurance. (Medical runs me $1,400 a year (24 single adult) That’s medical insurance for a few years.)

I think we need to review our focus and get the hell out of IRAQ.

To be honest I don’t care if everyone in IRAQ kills each other or if they peacefully get along.

I don’t live in IRAQ. I live a few miles away.. In the US of A! =)

I see people in my state struggling, I see trucking companies going under. Enough’s enough get the fuck outa the middle east.

If they're building bombs, lets just hope they blow themselves up.

Nuclear bombs show up on satelites, if they make a bomb, sneak in and set it off.




IRAQ is the BIGGEST reason for our ECONOMIC issues.



Sources:
http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/0310/p16s01-wmgn.html
http://www.gasbuddy.com/
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/print/us.html
http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/rtecs/nhts_survey/2001/tablefiles/table-a10.pdf

[invisible777]

Originally Posted by bobby

Some Numbers
$4,950,000,000,000 trillion Dollars is the price tag on iraq/afghanistan
$3.586 national gas average today 4-25-08
301,139,947 united states citizens

What Iraq and Afghanistan is costing us?

$16,437 could be refunded to each citizen.. (Nice replacement to kicker eh?)
4584 gallons of gasoline per citizen (I use ~80 gallons a month That would be gas paid for 57.3 months for me)
That’s a car for anyone who wants one...
That’s food for anyone that’s hungry.
That’s a good chunk of cash towards medical insurance. (Medical runs me $1,400 a year (24 single adult) That’s medical insurance for a few years.)

I think we need to review our focus and get the hell out of IRAQ.

To be honest I don’t care if everyone in IRAQ kills each other or if they peacefully get along.

I don’t live in IRAQ. I live a few miles away.. In the US of A! =)

I see people in my state struggling, I see trucking companies going under. Enough’s enough get the fuck outa the middle east.

If they're building bombs, lets just hope they blow themselves up.

Nuclear bombs show up on satelites, if they make a bomb, sneak in and set it off.




IRAQ is the BIGGEST reason for our ECONOMIC issues.



Sources:
http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/0310/p16s01-wmgn.html
http://www.gasbuddy.com/
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/print/us.html
http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/rtecs/nhts_survey/2001/tablefiles/table-a10.pdf

It's all about you, isn't it?

[bobby]

Originally Posted by invisible777

It's all about you, isn't it?

Nope its about the 301,139,947 united states citizens

Take my 16k that I paid in and I'd have rather spent it on public schools.. In my area what used to be a 5day school week, due to funding they are down to a 4 day school week.

Edit:

Also, how can it be about me? I was never given the choice.

[popeye]

Originally Posted by BeerHat

December 2001, Richard Reid: British citizen attempted to ignite shoe bomb on flight from Paris to Miami.

• May 2002, Jose Padilla: American citizen accused of seeking "dirty bomb," convicted of conspiracy.

• September 2002, Lackawanna Six: American citizens of Yemeni origin convicted of supporting Al Qaeda. Five of six were from Lackawanna, N.Y.

• May 2003, Iyman Faris: American citizen charged with trying to topple the Brooklyn Bridge.

• June 2003, Virginia Jihad Network: Eleven men from Alexandria, Va., trained for jihad against American soldiers, convicted of violating the Neutrality Act, conspiracy.

• August 2004, Dhiren Barot: Indian-born leader of terror cell plotted bombings on financial centers (see additional images).

• August 2004, James Elshafay and Shahawar Matin Siraj: Sought to plant bomb at New York's Penn Station during the Republican National Convention.

• August 2004, Yassin Aref and Mohammed Hossain: Plotted to assassinate a Pakistani diplomat on American soil.

• June 2005, Father and son Umer Hayat and Hamid Hayat: Son convicted of attending terrorist training camp in Pakistan; father convicted of customs violation.

• August 2005, Kevin James, Levar Haley Washington, Gregory Vernon Patterson and Hammad Riaz Samana: Los Angeles homegrown terrorists who plotted to attack National Guard, LAX, two synagogues and Israeli consulate.

• December 2005, Michael Reynolds: Plotted to blow up refinery in Wyoming, convicted of providing material support to terrorists.

• February 2006, Mohammad Zaki Amawi, Marwan Othman El-Hindi and Zand Wassim Mazloum: Accused of providing material support to terrorists, making bombs for use in Iraq.

• April 2006, Syed Haris Ahmed and Ehsanul Islam Sadequee: Cased and videotaped the Capitol and World Bank for a terrorist organization.

• June 2006, Narseal Batiste, Patrick Abraham, Stanley Grant Phanor, Naudimar Herrera, Burson Augustin, Lyglenson Lemorin, and Rotschild Augstine: Accused of plotting to blow up the Sears Tower.

• July 2006, Assem Hammoud: Accused of plotting to hit New York City train tunnels.

• August 2006, Liquid Explosives Plot: Thwarted plot to explode ten airliners over the United States.

• May 2007, Fort Dix Plot: Six men accused of plotting to attack Fort Dix Army base in New Jersey.

• June 2007, JFK Plot: Four men accused of plotting to blow up fuel arteries underneath JFK Airport in New York.

• March 2007, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed: Mastermind of Sept. 11 and author of numerous plots confessed in court in March 2007 to planning to destroy skyscrapers in New York, Los Angeles and Chicago.

Thanks!

[bobby]

Originally Posted by invisible777

It's all about you, isn't it?

Heres is when it was only at 522 billion


153,995,332 People with Health Care for One Year OR
540,922,142 Homes with Renewable Electricity for One Year OR
11,285,097 Public Safety Officers for One year OR
8,960,343 Music and Arts Teachers for One Year OR
80,782,313 Scholarships for University Students for One Year OR
38,313 New Elementary Schools OR
4,064,478 Affordable Housing Units OR
230,292,880 Children with Health Care for One Year OR
71,703,033 Head Start Places for Children for One Year OR
8,583,162 Elementary School Teachers for One Year OR
7,549,214 Port Container Inspectors for One year

You could take these numbers and multiply them by 9.5 to get todays numbers.

Thats an unbeliveable waste of funds.

You want to stay in iraq and accomplish nothing OR
give 2,187,782,360 Children with Health Care for One Year .

Source: Federal Budget Trade-Offs | National Priorities Project

Note these cost projections are from 2007.. You'd have to multiply them by 9.5 to be closer to todays costs.. (This would include Afghanistan and Iraq)

[bobby]

Everyone wants to talk about cutting costs. Hell we have departments of goverment to see how effective the other parts of goverment are.

ExpectMore.gov: Ineffective Programs

Don't gripe about gas prices, you have too look at all these compound fuckups, and see that we as a country are making a bill (Amount owed) that the majority of americans are not ok with. We are spending an incredible amount of money in many places and we see no beneficial results from our spending (Return on investment).

When you don't have it, you can't spend it.

[invisible777]

Originally Posted by bobby

Heres is when it was only at 522 billion


153,995,332 People with Health Care for One Year OR
540,922,142 Homes with Renewable Electricity for One Year OR
11,285,097 Public Safety Officers for One year OR
8,960,343 Music and Arts Teachers for One Year OR
80,782,313 Scholarships for University Students for One Year OR
38,313 New Elementary Schools OR
4,064,478 Affordable Housing Units OR
230,292,880 Children with Health Care for One Year OR
71,703,033 Head Start Places for Children for One Year OR
8,583,162 Elementary School Teachers for One Year OR
7,549,214 Port Container Inspectors for One year

You could take these numbers and multiply them by 9.5 to get todays numbers.

Thats an unbeliveable waste of funds.

You want to stay in iraq and accomplish nothing OR
give 2,187,782,360 Children with Health Care for One Year .

Source: Federal Budget Trade-Offs | National Priorities Project

Note these cost projections are from 2007.. You'd have to multiply them by 9.5 to be closer to todays costs.. (This would include Afghanistan and Iraq)

Ok, now take your little MoveOn.org stats and multiply them by 50 to get a realistic idea of the ridiculous waste of shit Obama is promising.

[bobby]

Originally Posted by invisible777

Ok, now take your little MoveOn.org stats and multiply them by 50 to get a realistic idea of the ridiculous waste of shit Obama is promising.

Who the fuck cares?

All 3 are a fucking joke.

WTF are you trying to spin..

I say get out of a iraq, and you say look at obama?


Let me guess, blonde, tits... doesn't do well in casual conversation?

[invisible777]

Originally Posted by bobby

Who the fuck cares?

All 3 are a fucking joke.

WTF are you trying to spin..

I say get out of a iraq, and you say look at obama?


Let me guess, blonde, tits... doesn't do well in casual conversation?

Not quite.

Just someone sick of hearing people bash on my country. Yeah, its got problems, many big, but people like you running around with your little 6th grade DailyKos and Jon Stewart logic and stats do nothing to help the situation.

[bobby]

Originally Posted by invisible777

Not quite.

Just someone sick of hearing people bash on my country. Yeah, its got problems, many big, but people like you running around with your little 6th grade DailyKos and Jon Stewart logic and stats do nothing to help the situation.

[LazyHippy]

4 day a week schools, due to lack of funds... WTF?!!? Come on America, healthcare is one thing (I don't agree, but can understand the arguments against spending taxes there), but cutting back on education to the extent that kids are getting a fifth less time in school??

I'm betting it isn't a school full of rich kids, but even the most die hard conservatives must see the value to everyone of providing a decent education to all.

[subigo]

Is there a way to ignore all future comments from Popeye? I would be interested in such a feature.

[Dustin]

Originally Posted by LazyHippy

4 day a week schools, due to lack of funds... WTF?!!? Come on America, healthcare is one thing (I don't agree, but can understand the arguments against spending taxes there), but cutting back on education to the extent that kids are getting a fifth less time in school??

I'm betting it isn't a school full of rich kids, but even the most die hard conservatives must see the value to everyone of providing a decent education to all.

Thank you.

[turbolapp]

The public school system SUCKS. Even if you're in a "good" school. It's a bureaucratic nightmare. I brought my son in an hour and half late one day (cause he hadn't been feeling well when he first woke up but then felt fine later) and they counted him absent for the whole day. The lady was like why did you even bother bringing him in? What kind of logic is that?? If he gets a certain amount of absences they will hold him back. It doesn't matter that he's in kindegarten but reads and does math on a 3rd grade level...what's important is the bullshit rules that they can't bend for anything. That's just one example. Everything about public school works in that fashion.

(btw he's not in danger of being held back. It's just the fuckin principle of the matter. The SHEEPLENESS of it all.)

[erect]

Originally Posted by LazyHippy

4 day a week schools, due to lack of funds... but even the most die hard conservatives must see the value to everyone of providing a decent education to all.

Republicans against education, yea right. Pass to ganja hippie.

Please post a link where they are cutting back the school week due to educational funds being spent in Iraq or it didn't happen.

I can tell you for a fact that Tennessee's government shut down (right down to the trash collection, universities & minimal police coverage) in 2004. Public schools stayed in session and would have only been pulled as an absolute last resort. Democrats in office all the way up.

Guys it's not democrats vs. republicans ... the true fight should be politicians vs. citizens. Not one of those fuckers that ran for office (save RP & DK) have any sense and listen to lobbyists instead of the citizens they represent. I'm sure 60% of the public wants us out of Iraq right now (the other 40% are just sheeple). Yet of the 3 major candidates left, 2 push for staying the course ... the other has more long term plans to evacuate than I would like to see.

BUT NOT ONE OF THOSE MOTHER FUCKERS THINK WE NEED TO KEEP OUR MILITARY INSIDE OUR BORDERS UNLESS WE ARE AT A CONGRESSIONALLY APPROVE WAR!!! Iraq is just a symptom, we refuse to treat the illness which is our thirst for blood, oil, control & pussy. Well the last one is at least legit and requires different types of weapons.

By the way, there's not a single conservative left in the race, McCain is just a schmuck and doesn't represent anyone's values. Want to hear the sad part? He'll be our next president because Americans will look at the democratic candidate as either a woman or a black man ... Most of us are closet bigots and would never vote for either.

[erect]

Originally Posted by turbolapp

If he gets a certain amount of absences they will hold him back.

Minimum attendance = 178 days (in my state) so he'd have to miss a ton of school to fall short of that.

[xmcp123]

Originally Posted by erect

Republicans against education, yea right. Pass to ganja hippie.

Please post a link where they are cutting back the school week due to educational funds being spent in Iraq or it didn't happen.

I don't need to post a link. I was in high school while bush was in office. It's the same story everywhere. Paper/book rationing, laying off large amounts of teachers..where the hell have you been?

[yoey]

Originally Posted by popeye

Though, I will give GWB a gold star for the fact that we have not been attacked on US soil since 9/11, even though many extremist have tried to plot it.

Dude, 9/11 took almost 10 fucking years to plan (according to our intelligence). This logic is dubious at best.

The Simpson replied to this logic so cleverly with:

Homer: Well, there's not a bear in sight. The Bear Patrol is sure doing its job.

Lisa: That's specious reasoning, Dad.

Homer: Thank you, sweetie.

Lisa: Dad, what if I were to tell you that this rock keeps away tigers.

Homer: Uh-huh, and how does it work?

Lisa: It doesn't work. It's just a stupid rock.

Homer: I see.

Lisa: But you don't see any tigers around, do you?

Homer: Lisa, I'd like to buy your rock.

Homer = your typical republican.

[erect]

Originally Posted by xmcp123

I don't need to post a link. I was in high school while bush was in office. It's the same story everywhere. Paper/book rationing, laying off large amounts of teachers..where the hell have you been?

None of that has to do with cutting down to 4 day school weeks. That's what I want a link for. Recycling books from year to year is totally acceptable and not the same as cutting back the days school is open by 20%.

Besides, Bush has been in office for a long time (too long). There's a good chance weren't fighting in Iraq when you were in school and we've been bad at budgeting and had a deficit since you were in sippin' titty milk. The cost of the war causing schools to shorten their weeks is what I'm requesting a link for. I'm calling BS there!

I won't argue that education is way under funded compared to less important things (like the military) ... That's a no-brainer.

[erect]

Originally Posted by yoey

Homer = your typical republican.

I'd vote Homer Simpson over McCain and I'm your typical Republican.

I'd also vote you as a fucking douchebag for trying to tell me I need a rock. Now if that same rock keeps away spiders ..........

[popeye]

Originally Posted by yoey

Dude, 9/11 took almost 10 fucking years to plan (according to our intelligence). This logic is dubious at best.

The Simpson replied to this logic so cleverly with:

Homer: Well, there's not a bear in sight. The Bear Patrol is sure doing its job.

Lisa: That's specious reasoning, Dad.

Homer: Thank you, sweetie.

Lisa: Dad, what if I were to tell you that this rock keeps away tigers.

Homer: Uh-huh, and how does it work?

Lisa: It doesn't work. It's just a stupid rock.

Homer: I see.

Lisa: But you don't see any tigers around, do you?

Homer: Lisa, I'd like to buy your rock.

Homer = your typical republican.

This isn't the Simpsons so I will respond with: Take a look at the list above, that Beerhat (nice name BTW) has posted. These are all plots and attempts to commit terrorism on US soil. They were all foiled due to the security policies put in place by the administration. I would have to say in no way were any of the plots or attempts in the planning even before 9/11.

9/11 happened because Mr. Clinton and his admin dropped the ball concerning threats from Muslim extremist. This statement would probably be fact if Sandy Burglar hadn't snuck the damming documents out of the archives in his underwear and socks.

[Unarmed Gunman]

Don't throw water at the train...

[BeerHat]

Originally Posted by xmcp123

I don't need to post a link. I was in high school while bush was in office. It's the same story everywhere. Paper/book rationing, laying off large amounts of teachers..where the hell have you been?

I was in high school during Clinton and it was the same bullshit.

[popeye]

Originally Posted by BeerHat

I was in high school during Clinton and it was the same bullshit.

To Beerhats avatar: Beasty Boys Rocks Your Socks. I was in high school during Herbert Bush and it was the same bullshit.

Its really not the money that's fuckin up our school system, its the policy. When I was in school I was afraid of not only getting the hell beat outa my ass my my 250 pound principle but also my 350 pound father that was a power lifter.

I stayed on the straight and narrow because I knew that was what was expected of me. I knew that if I fucked up..that I would have consequences.

Today the kids dont give a fuck. Their parent dont give a fuck. They were raised on playstation and cable TV. The government can't fix the problem. It can only be fixed by the parents.

[erect]

Originally Posted by yoey

Dude, 9/11 took almost 10 fucking years to plan (according to our intelligence).

More dubious logic .. Clinton was in office for most of these 10 years too.

Bad things happen people, we just need to get other countries to hate us less. No government run agency will make us bomb proof ... regardless of which party the president represents.

[LazyHippy]

Originally Posted by popeye

To Beerhats avatar: Beasty Boys Rocks Your Socks. I was in high school during Herbert Bush and it was the same bullshit.

Its really not the money that's fuckin up our school system, its the policy. When I was in school I was afraid of not only getting the hell beat outa my ass my my 250 pound principle but also my 350 pound father that was a power lifter.

I stayed on the straight and narrow because I knew that was what was expected of me. I knew that if I fucked up..that I would have consequences.

Today the kids dont give a fuck. Their parent dont give a fuck. They were raised on playstation and cable TV. The government can't fix the problem. It can only be fixed by the parents.

Agreed that parents often don't give a fuck, and kids today get away with a lot more than when I was younger. But then kids are also growing up quicker. I'm 30 in a couple of months and my friend's 10 year old is a hell of a lot more mature than I was at 10, and it was the same with my parents generation who seemed to be seen as children up to their late teens.

The parents aren't entirely to blame for whatever the kids do, most of them are just average sheeple, happily soaking in what they are fed without even thinking about it and passing it on to their offspring. The same shit gets passed from generation to generation, I bet more sheeple parents think, "it didn't do me any harm..." than try to learn from their parents' mistakes.

I'm not sure about in The States, but here politicians and the media love to demonise young people, who are often hanging around in public places cos there's just fuck all for kids to do a lot of the time. I used to work at a youth centre that got closed down due to lack of cash, that's fairly typical.
A local skate park always seems to be fighting to stay open and my friend does some great work with kids excluded from school for behaviour problems, she's had books published on it and really does make a difference, yet they are always fighting for funding. Parents do need to take responsibility for their kids, but they need to be educated themselves, Governments and the media need to take their share of the blame and do something about it, more money isn't the complete answer but it's part of it, but then I doubt they really want all the sheep to start thinking.

Schools should focus more on teaching children to think for themselves, rather than just how to pass exams. One good thing that might come out of the Iraq fiasco is the thousands of schoolchildren that got involved in making their voices heard and thinking about shit that affects them.

Beating ya kids or even the threat of violence isn't the answer at all, shit loads of research has found that rewarding good behaviour will always be more effective than the threat of punishment for bad behaviour. (What motivates you? The rewards success brings, or the fear of failure?)

I (fortunately for now) don't have kids, but I would think these days removing the XBox or PC would be more effective than threatening to beat them when you both know you wouldn't do it, or if you did people would be asking questions.

You also get kids growing up confusing fear with respect. An adult demanding a child respects them through fear and intimidation is a great way to either lose the child's respect very quickly or for the average unthinking sheeple, fuck them up so they never distinguish between the two and pass it on to their kids and so on and so on.

Sorry for the fuckin long post... (No offence to the thoughtful non-sheeple parents here!)

[yoey]

Originally Posted by erect

More dubious logic .. Clinton was in office for most of these 10 years too.

Its funny how when you disprove a conservative, they scream "BUT BUT BUT CLINTON!"

Your response is missing the point. The fact of the matter is, one of the first successful terrorist attacks in our nation's history took 10 years to plan.

To say we haven't been attacked yet and credit it to Bush is ridiculous. Actually, its quite stupid. Not only has Bush made us more hated in the middle east, but unless your an idiot, here is how the logic of terrorism works:

increasing hatred for us = more likely people will attack us

Republicans have made us anything BUT safe.

[BeerHat]

I'm so sick of politics *yaaaawwwwnnnnn* Point is , if you are drinking the koolaid from either party you're an idiot. Now, if you do want to vote for a decent democrat then vote Mccain. I'm outta this thread, this shit can take up so much of your time it's not even funny.

Bush isn't Satan and Obama is not the Messiah.

[DewChugr]

Originally Posted by subigo

Is there a way to ignore all future comments from Popeye? I would be interested in such a feature.

Actually, if you want to ignore someone you go to you CP and click the link labeled Buddy/Ignore List.

[Eves]

Originally Posted by popeye

Obama has stated that anyone that makes over 100k will recieve a massive tax increase. How can any successfull IM support this?? That is unless you are a poser/wannabe.

Any successful business person will vote for anyone agaisnt the party of entitelment.
SAY NO TO TAKING YOUR MONEY AND GIVING IT TO THOSE THAT DON'T WANT TO WORK!!!!!

Your taxes are (what the government thinks is) your fair share to finance the whole system. If the system doesnt work, the odds are you would not be making 100k+. Paying 20% instead of 30% (or whatever the numbers are) on taxes wont matter that much if the whole country (along with your business) is falling apart. So the real question is, do you like the direction in which your country is heading now? (cause from what i heard, doesnt seem that mccain wants to change anything too much)

[$5 Submissions]

Originally Posted by losser

I on the other hand am over 30 and would like the government to keep there hands off the money I make.

Pretty much sums me up. Plus, I live in the Philippines and if you think "tax and spend" liberalism is bad in the US, wait till you see it in action in the developing world.

[turbolapp]

It too bad we can't choose what our tax money goes towards. I certainly wouldn't mind paying 30% then. (yes I know it's not practical)

[ArtDeco]

Turbo
Do you mean paying 30%+ isn't practical ? Some people in the US used to pay 50%+ and stuff still worked OK - anything less than 100% tax has "worked" somewhere. Or did you mean choosing what our money goes for isn't practical? We have this internet thingy that makes a lot of formerly impractical / impossible stuff practical and necessary. However, the fact that you and I might not want to give {the Pentagon, the Welfare program, the OSHA, the EPA, the Legislative branch, Insert name of agency here} the full amount it has in mind, doesn't mean it is impractical, just that the government doesn't want us making the decisions.

[invisible777]

Originally Posted by ArtDeco

Turbo
Do you mean paying 30%+ isn't practical ? Some people in the US used to pay 50%+ and stuff still worked OK - anything less than 100% tax has "worked" somewhere. Or did you mean choosing what our money goes for isn't practical? We have this internet thingy that makes a lot of formerly impractical / impossible stuff practical and necessary. However, the fact that you and I might not want to give {the Pentagon, the Welfare program, the OSHA, the EPA, the Legislative branch, Insert name of agency here} the full amount it has in mind, doesn't mean it is impractical, just that the government doesn't want us making the decisions.

Here's one example

I'd rather see my tax money only go to support families who are responsible. I don't want to buy food stamps and govt services for the idiots out there who buy shit instead of food when they are being supported by govt programs.

Case in point - I worked at a grocery store for 3 years in high school, I saw it every day. Food stamps person/family comes into line with a couple of items of food, uses the food stamps, then buys $100 worth of shit like DVDs and toys. People like this are either a) irresponsible idiots, or b) gaming the system, and either way I do not want to support them, but we all do.