Why Adwords QS is BS - WickedFire - Affiliate Marketing Forum

trigatch4 · 06-02-2008, 10:59 AM

I don't enjoy exposing my websites, but I really wanted to uncover the hypocrisy in Adwords QS for everyone here to see. This is pretty ridiculous and I think it deserves some type of explanation:

Why Adwords QS is BS: An Open Letter to Google’s Adwords Team : eurekadiary.com

The polar opposites in determination of quality is basically an admission that one of the sytems, either the Search Engine or Quality Score, is completely worthless and irrelevant. And I think we know which one that is.

emp · 06-02-2008, 11:32 AM

Arghs...

I guess QS does measure something differently. More like: how much money can we get out of this?

::emp::

shishasem · 06-02-2008, 12:14 PM

Yeah, the quality score sucks for sure, but I suppose they do work in different ways, the search engine looks at on-page, domain-name, back-links etc... where as the QS has a whole load of other bullshit attached to it. Hint- QS has a hard-on for privacy policies for instance. I would be inclinded to have a h1 text block with Street Figher 4 as primary keyword, and then a bunch of SF related keyword orientated text under it. Then your blog posts can slot under it, or ideally on a seperate page.

Your bids 'might' come done again, or Google may just keep banging on about $10 love you long time GI... $10...

erect · 06-02-2008, 01:01 PM

Perhaps it's a copyright issue. They tend to be quick about raising the min. bid amount when you are advertising something specific that is a product. This theory will be inconsistent as some will fall through the cracks while others get hit with the $10 bids.

This is my initial reaction when I see zero advertisers on a common search term. Try running your campaign using the broad match of the words "street fight" instead of the exact name of the game.

trigatch4 · 06-02-2008, 01:06 PM

When it is disallowed for trademark, they specify that reason in the adwords interface. Not only that, they don't just up your bid to an obnoxious amount, they completely ban you from bidding on said term.

But actually... you could be right... who knows

Uzzz · 06-02-2008, 01:11 PM

maybe they dont want you monopolizing both systems?

... :| ....

Bofu2U · 06-02-2008, 01:22 PM

Tis quite interesting. triggy lets drive to Google together and voice our complaint. It would be fun!

aim · 06-02-2008, 01:22 PM

After visiting Street Fighter 4, I can't find anything that has to do with "street fighter 4". Are you sure you're site is about street fighter 4?

Perhaps you should add some Street Fighter 4 content and try again?

In all seriousness, it looks like QS is messed up on your campaign; Try deleting the campaign and starting a new one.

Also, I went to Google's External Keyword Tool: https://adwords.google.com/select/KeywordToolExternal and did a "Website Content" related keywords search and "Street Fighter 4" definitely was one of the keywords.

Interesting how AdWords itself thinks your site can be about a particular keyword, and then penalizes you for it.

Bofu2U · 06-02-2008, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aim

After visiting Street Fighter 4, I can't find anything that has to do with "street fighter 4". Are you sure you're site is about street fighter 4?

Perhaps you should add some Street Fighter 4 content and try again?

In all seriousness, it looks like QS is messed up on your campaign; Try deleting the campaign and starting a new one.

Also, I went to Google's External Keyword Tool: https://adwords.google.com/select/KeywordToolExternal and did a "Website Content" related keywords search and "Street Fighter 4" definitely was one of the keywords.

Interesting how AdWords itself thinks your site can be about a particular keyword, and then penalizes you for it.

Are you sure? I found some really good Street Fighter 4 information on that site ...

erect · 06-02-2008, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trigatch4

When it is disallowed for trademark, they specify that reason in the adwords interface. Not only that, they don't just up your bid to an obnoxious amount, they completely ban you from bidding on said term.

But actually... you could be right... who knows

hmmm, perhaps I phrased that wrong. try switching out "trademark" with "strategic google partnership" in what I posted. A trademark is very specific term where I was trying to explain something more general.

I haven't checked but I'm sure they have a tm on "street fighter 4" if they are about to release the game. You said you didn't get the tm error you mentioned above so this partnership might extend to most common keywords that are associated with the mother company.

Since we can't see the insides of adwords we'll never know but something is definitly wrong with your adwords situation and conventional wisdom will probably not be able to solve it.

trigatch4 · 06-02-2008, 02:28 PM

erect: actually, your explanation is totally feasible. So instead of an advertiser requesting google completely disallow adverts for their brand name, they instead raise the minimum bid to a ridiculous amount and share profit with google on the clicks.

Something to that degree... it could be. I doubt it but it is certainly possible. But that could open doors to all sorts of ugly happenings.

I'm 99% sure it doesn't have anything to do with Google caring about me already ranking and not wanting to be redundant. There are thousands of articles about why companies still advertise via adwords when they have the #1 organic listing for the keyword.

Typically, the answer is to prevent their competitors from getting the business. The fact that this discussion exists shows it has been possible in the past. I've done it myself. I supposed it could have changed but I highly, highly doubt it.

RuDeDoGg · 06-02-2008, 02:44 PM

I think the problem is your keyword density

Quote:

"street fighter iv" 1.13%
"street fighter 4" 1.13%

I'm sure AdWords has a hard time thinking a page with (to them) 1% of its content is related to the term can be relevant. I'd guess the search algo's are much more advanced, and look for related terms, videos, etc

But yes, I agree.. QS is a royal bitch

beejeebers · 06-02-2008, 02:48 PM

Since the ctr on your adwords account was 0.00%, google slapped you with high bids to basically say, "your campaign sucks, we, (adwords), will never make a dime off your so go to hell please." Organic rankings are about following their rules and doing it by the book. Adwords is about who makes them the most money for that keyword. I know some still think that they'd never rank things that way, but they do.

Here's an example:

Account A: 100 impressions, 5% ctr and a bid of $0.50

Adwords makes $2.50 every time they show your ad 100 times

Account B: 100 impressions, 1% ctr and a bid of $2.00

Adwords makes $2.00 every time they show your ad 100 times

Account C: 100 impressions, 10% ctr and a bid of $0.30

Adwords makes $3.00 every time they show your ad 100 times

So Account C would get the top spot, Account A would get the second spot and Account B would get the third spot. Anyone with 0.00% ctr would get NO spot. They're all about what's best for their pocket, start thinking like them from a business point of view and you'll do very well. Anyone with double digit ctrs already knows this.

trigatch4 · 06-02-2008, 02:57 PM

RudeDogg: could be. perhaps i should change from full post to excerpt.

beejeebers: When the campaign ran it got about 300 impressions with 2.5% CTR at .05 a pop. I never knew it raised my bid after that. But... compare them:

Advertiser A: 300 impressions x .025 CTR x $0.05 = .375 dollars

Advertiser Everyone else: 0 impressions x 0 CTR x $10 = 0 dollar

Either nobody else is advertising or everyone is getting smacked with $10 bids or? Who knows... but it is lame any way you look at it.

pocketrockets · 06-02-2008, 05:16 PM

It's hard to say exactly what is causing the low quality score but I think part of it is the lack of text content. There isn't a lot for the adwords bot to chew on.

I've run into the same quality scores issues myself. I had a 5-page mini-site that had a 'great' quality score for over a year and then recently just got slapped with $10 bids. I hadn't changed anything to the site or the campaign. I'm positive it was because it views it as a thin affiliate site and is looking for more content.

I wouldn't worry about it much since nobody else is advertising and you are already ranked high in the SERPs. I think your bigger issue is how are you planning to monetize it when the demo is 14 yr old boys with no money or credit cards?

$5 Submissions · 06-02-2008, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by emp

Arghs...

I guess QS does measure something differently. More like: how much money can we get out of this?

::emp::

Exactly. Pretty weasely and arbitrary of them.

Sg4 · 06-02-2008, 08:27 PM

I'm curious as to how old your AdWords account is, if you'd had QS issues on other campaigns, or if you have an AdWords account with good history, high CTR, and high relevancy?

HarveyJ · 06-02-2008, 09:16 PM

You know what? Screw em!
You're already ranking in the top 5 organically. The only way AdWords is going to get you more traffic than that is when it shows up on other pages linking to your site... And frankly, I don't actually know many hardcore gamers that click adword links.
They'll follow links in someone's signature pic on a forum though...

Davros · 06-02-2008, 11:45 PM

This is quite interesting actually, as you're basically doing everything by the book - as far as I can see anyway.

The only things I can suggest are adding a contact page and a privacy page and see what happens then.

I'd be interested to see whether just adding those would get your campaign started.

johnmatrix · 06-03-2008, 03:07 AM

This has happened with every campaign i've ever tried on adwords.. exactly the same situation in one case. Supposedly the high bids were due to a shitty CTR, but there were NO OTHER ADVERTISERS! google lost the money i would have spent in favour of $0 because they didnt like my CTR.

shithappens · 06-03-2008, 04:48 AM

hahahaHAHAHAHA, you seo guys thought QUALITY SCORE meant it had to do w/ the quality of the sites. I have quality score great minimum bid of .01 on a few pages(yes, MAY 2008) they don't even got the keyword on the page

Kyle · 06-03-2008, 06:40 AM

Yeah, I second the adding the contact page, privacy page, t&c page and maybe even an about page theory. If you find your QS shoots up then I guess we'll have pretty good evidence of how much importance Google places on these crappy generic filler pages.

trigatch4 · 06-03-2008, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sg4

I'm curious as to how old your AdWords account is, if you'd had QS issues on other campaigns, or if you have an AdWords account with good history, high CTR, and high relevancy?

Its about 2 years old and I've done very, very well with most of my other campaigns as far as keeping CPC fairly low.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davros

The only things I can suggest are adding a contact page and a privacy page and see what happens then.

TBH, I think this is more for people who have thin landing pages on sites with no substance. This site has substance. I might try it anyways just to prove it won't help.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shithappens

hahahaHAHAHAHA, you seo guys thought QUALITY SCORE meant it had to do w/ the quality of the sites. I have quality score great minimum bid of .01 on a few pages(yes, MAY 2008) they don't even got the keyword on the page

No... I thought it had to do with the quality of the page. But google ranks that PAGE organically. We understand the difference between QS and Organic Algos... but regardless, their results are extremely conflicting.

Enigmabomb · 06-03-2008, 09:59 AM

OT, but, do lists still exist of shitty low paying advertisers I can ban from my adsense site? I don't want ShitHappens getting his cheap clicks on my shit.

Niwrad · 06-04-2008, 02:10 PM

I've seen the same problem. I have a site that ranks #1 for a keyword, is the absolute authority on the subject, yet my QS has me at $10. It's amazing actually, 4 of the top 10 sites in organic link to me. I've been #1 forever, my domain is an exact match for the keyword (and a .com). The site is large, isn't an affiliate site, and has been around for years. It's also in an account of mine that spends a lot.

06-02-2008, 10:59 AM	#1 (permalink)
trigatch4 BuildAndEarn Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: East Coast Posts: 2,409 iTrader: 2 / 100%	Why Adwords QS is BS I don't enjoy exposing my websites, but I really wanted to uncover the hypocrisy in Adwords QS for everyone here to see. This is pretty ridiculous and I think it deserves some type of explanation: Why Adwords QS is BS: An Open Letter to Google’s Adwords Team : eurekadiary.com The polar opposites in determination of quality is basically an admission that one of the sytems, either the Search Engine or Quality Score, is completely worthless and irrelevant. And I think we know which one that is. __________________ BuildAndEarn.com - My Affiliate Blog Phandroid.com - Android Phones Rule AndroidForums.com - Android Forums (duh!)

06-02-2008, 11:32 AM	#2 (permalink)
emp Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 4,610 iTrader: 9 / 100%	Arghs... I guess QS does measure something differently. More like: how much money can we get out of this? ::emp:: __________________ http://www.blindapeseo.com/ubot/ubotpromo.jpg That's because all programmers are also ninjas.(but not all ninjas are programmers) - LogicFlux Blind Ape Seo ¦ My WickedFire articles

06-02-2008, 01:06 PM	#5 (permalink)
trigatch4 BuildAndEarn Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: East Coast Posts: 2,409 iTrader: 2 / 100%	When it is disallowed for trademark, they specify that reason in the adwords interface. Not only that, they don't just up your bid to an obnoxious amount, they completely ban you from bidding on said term. But actually... you could be right... who knows __________________ BuildAndEarn.com - My Affiliate Blog Phandroid.com - Android Phones Rule AndroidForums.com - Android Forums (duh!)

06-02-2008, 01:11 PM	#6 (permalink)
Uzzz Death im yur Bitch Lover! Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Canada, T.O Posts: 1,716 iTrader: 3 / 100%	maybe they dont want you monopolizing both systems? ... :\| .... __________________ ______________________________________________

06-02-2008, 01:22 PM	#8 (permalink)
aim Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Minneapolis, MN Posts: 1,268 iTrader: 1 / 100%	After visiting Street Fighter 4, I can't find anything that has to do with "street fighter 4". Are you sure you're site is about street fighter 4? Perhaps you should add some Street Fighter 4 content and try again? In all seriousness, it looks like QS is messed up on your campaign; Try deleting the campaign and starting a new one. Also, I went to Google's External Keyword Tool: https://adwords.google.com/select/KeywordToolExternal and did a "Website Content" related keywords search and "Street Fighter 4" definitely was one of the keywords. Interesting how AdWords itself thinks your site can be about a particular keyword, and then penalizes you for it. __________________ http://cgi.4chan.org/s/src/1242695804300.gif

06-02-2008, 12:14 PM	#3 (permalink)
shishasem Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 35 iTrader: 1 / 100%	Yeah, the quality score sucks for sure, but I suppose they do work in different ways, the search engine looks at on-page, domain-name, back-links etc... where as the QS has a whole load of other bullshit attached to it. Hint- QS has a hard-on for privacy policies for instance. I would be inclinded to have a h1 text block with Street Figher 4 as primary keyword, and then a bunch of SF related keyword orientated text under it. Then your blog posts can slot under it, or ideally on a seperate page. Your bids 'might' come done again, or Google may just keep banging on about $10 love you long time GI... $10...

06-02-2008, 01:01 PM	#4 (permalink)
erect Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Paradise City Posts: 2,252 iTrader: 13 / 100%	Perhaps it's a copyright issue. They tend to be quick about raising the min. bid amount when you are advertising something specific that is a product. This theory will be inconsistent as some will fall through the cracks while others get hit with the $10 bids. This is my initial reaction when I see zero advertisers on a common search term. Try running your campaign using the broad match of the words "street fight" instead of the exact name of the game.

06-02-2008, 02:28 PM	#11 (permalink)
trigatch4 BuildAndEarn Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: East Coast Posts: 2,409 iTrader: 2 / 100%	erect: actually, your explanation is totally feasible. So instead of an advertiser requesting google completely disallow adverts for their brand name, they instead raise the minimum bid to a ridiculous amount and share profit with google on the clicks. Something to that degree... it could be. I doubt it but it is certainly possible. But that could open doors to all sorts of ugly happenings. I'm 99% sure it doesn't have anything to do with Google caring about me already ranking and not wanting to be redundant. There are thousands of articles about why companies still advertise via adwords when they have the #1 organic listing for the keyword. Typically, the answer is to prevent their competitors from getting the business. The fact that this discussion exists shows it has been possible in the past. I've done it myself. I supposed it could have changed but I highly, highly doubt it. __________________ BuildAndEarn.com - My Affiliate Blog Phandroid.com - Android Phones Rule AndroidForums.com - Android Forums (duh!)

06-02-2008, 02:48 PM	#13 (permalink)
beejeebers Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 568 iTrader: 1 / 100%	Since the ctr on your adwords account was 0.00%, google slapped you with high bids to basically say, "your campaign sucks, we, (adwords), will never make a dime off your so go to hell please." Organic rankings are about following their rules and doing it by the book. Adwords is about who makes them the most money for that keyword. I know some still think that they'd never rank things that way, but they do. Here's an example: Account A: 100 impressions, 5% ctr and a bid of $0.50 Adwords makes $2.50 every time they show your ad 100 times Account B: 100 impressions, 1% ctr and a bid of $2.00 Adwords makes $2.00 every time they show your ad 100 times Account C: 100 impressions, 10% ctr and a bid of $0.30 Adwords makes $3.00 every time they show your ad 100 times So Account C would get the top spot, Account A would get the second spot and Account B would get the third spot. Anyone with 0.00% ctr would get NO spot. They're all about what's best for their pocket, start thinking like them from a business point of view and you'll do very well. Anyone with double digit ctrs already knows this.

06-02-2008, 02:57 PM	#14 (permalink)
trigatch4 BuildAndEarn Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: East Coast Posts: 2,409 iTrader: 2 / 100%	RudeDogg: could be. perhaps i should change from full post to excerpt. beejeebers: When the campaign ran it got about 300 impressions with 2.5% CTR at .05 a pop. I never knew it raised my bid after that. But... compare them: Advertiser A: 300 impressions x .025 CTR x $0.05 = .375 dollars Advertiser Everyone else: 0 impressions x 0 CTR x $10 = 0 dollar Either nobody else is advertising or everyone is getting smacked with $10 bids or? Who knows... but it is lame any way you look at it. __________________ BuildAndEarn.com - My Affiliate Blog Phandroid.com - Android Phones Rule AndroidForums.com - Android Forums (duh!)

06-02-2008, 05:16 PM	#15 (permalink)
pocketrockets Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 1,062 iTrader: 2 / 100%	It's hard to say exactly what is causing the low quality score but I think part of it is the lack of text content. There isn't a lot for the adwords bot to chew on. I've run into the same quality scores issues myself. I had a 5-page mini-site that had a 'great' quality score for over a year and then recently just got slapped with $10 bids. I hadn't changed anything to the site or the campaign. I'm positive it was because it views it as a thin affiliate site and is looking for more content. I wouldn't worry about it much since nobody else is advertising and you are already ranked high in the SERPs. I think your bigger issue is how are you planning to monetize it when the demo is 14 yr old boys with no money or credit cards? __________________ * Create Affiliate Stores w/ Wordpress In 3 Easy Steps: Choose from Millions of Products *****

06-02-2008, 08:27 PM	#17 (permalink)
Sg4 Digital Media Guru Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Brooklyn Posts: 277 iTrader: 3 / 100%	I'm curious as to how old your AdWords account is, if you'd had QS issues on other campaigns, or if you have an AdWords account with good history, high CTR, and high relevancy? __________________ Love to hate to fail. The Daily Hook. Sign-Up with Joe Bucks & Get Free Hosting to Support your Affiliate Campaigns

06-02-2008, 09:16 PM	#18 (permalink)
HarveyJ He is - THE CACTUS! Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Melbourne - Not the one in Florida Posts: 3,907 iTrader: 0 / 0%	You know what? Screw em! You're already ranking in the top 5 organically. The only way AdWords is going to get you more traffic than that is when it shows up on other pages linking to your site... And frankly, I don't actually know many hardcore gamers that click adword links. They'll follow links in someone's signature pic on a forum though... __________________ After 10,000 years I'm free!

06-02-2008, 11:45 PM	#19 (permalink)
Davros You Gonna Get Raped Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 144 iTrader: 0 / 0%	This is quite interesting actually, as you're basically doing everything by the book - as far as I can see anyway. The only things I can suggest are adding a contact page and a privacy page and see what happens then. I'd be interested to see whether just adding those would get your campaign started.

06-03-2008, 03:07 AM	#20 (permalink)
johnmatrix Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 468 iTrader: 1 / 100%	This has happened with every campaign i've ever tried on adwords.. exactly the same situation in one case. Supposedly the high bids were due to a shitty CTR, but there were NO OTHER ADVERTISERS! google lost the money i would have spent in favour of $0 because they didnt like my CTR. __________________ The leads are weak? you're weak!

06-03-2008, 04:48 AM	#21 (permalink)
shithappens Jon's Brother Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 351 iTrader: 1 / 100%	hahahaHAHAHAHA, you seo guys thought QUALITY SCORE meant it had to do w/ the quality of the sites. I have quality score great minimum bid of .01 on a few pages(yes, MAY 2008) they don't even got the keyword on the page __________________ Uber Camp

06-03-2008, 06:40 AM	#22 (permalink)
Kyle Legend Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: London, UK Posts: 122 iTrader: 0 / 0%	Yeah, I second the adding the contact page, privacy page, t&c page and maybe even an about page theory. If you find your QS shoots up then I guess we'll have pretty good evidence of how much importance Google places on these crappy generic filler pages. __________________ Kyle

06-03-2008, 09:59 AM	#24 (permalink)
Enigmabomb Id Show Her My SEO Face Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 1,321 iTrader: 5 / 100%	OT, but, do lists still exist of shitty low paying advertisers I can ban from my adsense site? I don't want ShitHappens getting his cheap clicks on my shit.

06-04-2008, 02:10 PM	#25 (permalink)
Niwrad Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 12 iTrader: 0 / 0%	I've seen the same problem. I have a site that ranks #1 for a keyword, is the absolute authority on the subject, yet my QS has me at $10. It's amazing actually, 4 of the top 10 sites in organic link to me. I've been #1 forever, my domain is an exact match for the keyword (and a .com). The site is large, isn't an affiliate site, and has been around for years. It's also in an account of mine that spends a lot.

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