xmcp123

Ok. So apparently Google trends is pretty flawed so let's have a WF brainstorm. What kind of filters do we think Google has on this to protect Google Trends from manipulation? is it changing the keyword searches slightly? IPs? Referrer? Let's hear it guys.

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AdHustler

IP for sure, maybe even ip range.

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ImagesAndWords

I'd say limited IP ranges, combined with a blacklist of words deemed "inappropriate" (i.e. embarrassing or otherwise)

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xmcp123

So does anyone think a relatively consistent referrer would come into play?

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productionhead

my idea on how this is being done (in the most efficient way) is botnetters who control XXX,XXX + pcs just open up a google search for the specific keyword in the background of the user's pc. probably do it on intervals.

xmcp123

I've tested it before with a sizable number of NOT botnet proxies...hammered em rotating for days. No luck. Not even at getting into Google's suggestions. I'm thinking they have to execute javascript.

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productionhead

i think them using JS for some sort of tracking is correct. for example identifying mouse movement to see if it is indeed a real person.

But then again, would they put that much effort into a vanity service like Google Trends?

xmcp123

Because it would also affect their CTRs on adwords and their precious user data most likely.

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productionhead

ah yeah definitely true.

moomycow

The problem with limiting to IPs is that it would ignore traffic from lots of schools and university campuses. Personally, I think it's a combination of already knowing large organisations' IP ranges, loads of searches, and then clicks on the javascript links that Google uses in its results page.

edit: Forgot to say, I wonder if any of these guys are spoofing requests from, e.g. Microsoft or Harvard.

HarveyJ

xmcp: you thinking of doing this anonymously?
And to what end? Are you just wanting to do it because you can? Or are you trying to screw over people that use Hot Trends to identify their next campaign keywords?
I knew there was a swastika that made it to the top term a few days ago that was a group effort from the Chaners... Maybe they know something we don't?

productionhead: It's not that much of a vanity service. If you're the sort of person that runs PPC, hot trends can actually be really helpful in letting you get the scoop on a term if you're targeting a particular area.
I can't remember who it was on this forum (someone in the UK), but they basically used to hang at the newsagent at midnight to grab the next day's paper, and then start a campaign using keywords from the bigger headlines. Hot Trends is the same deal really.

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productionhead

I meant it as a vanity service for Google. of course you can use it for yourself and turn it into something, but like a lot of the other Google Labs projects I don't think they were intended to directly generate revenue.

HarveyJ

Oh, I get ya now.
Sorry for the confusion.

And now that I think about it, how the hell did a swastika get in there anyway? I can't find it in the character map.

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xmcp123

Char codes+4chan

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xmcp123

Honestly, I have no plans for it yet. Just curiosity.

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pocketrockets

Somewhat related, SEOmoz had an interesting experience with google trends while creating a link-bait article titled, "things rick astley would never do"...

SEOmoz | Holy Mother of Linkbait

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seocracy

Javascript seems likely.

What also seems likely? Google toolbar.

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BradleyT2p2

I never really saw much mention of this but Yahoo Suggestions (Search Assist On when you type in at Yahoo.com) was being heavily gamed for about 2-3 weeks last month. It looks like they've since cleaned [some] of it up.

Big money keywords that were appearing in the suggestions all had some special code at the end of them such as tip2008, d3, z7, etc. So when you'd start to type mortgage refin into Yahoo the suggestion box would pop up with mortgage refinance tip2008 as the first result. Of course when you choose that result someone had created a spam site optimized for mortgage refinance tip2008. They did this for a lot of high dollar terms - mortgage, real estate, online colleges, loans, and on and on.

And while I while I didn't take advantage of the situation by creating any pages optimized for those terms, at work we did start seeing a lot of YSM clicks coming through with those terms for our college keywords (meaning people use the suggestions a lot). The person who did this created a bunch of optimized sites on zoomshare that all redirect to shitty adsense like landing pages.

Actually if you search Yahoo for Mortgage Refinance R you should see the suggestion for one with y8 appended to the term. So it looks like they didn't clean everything up.

productionhead

Great observation you just posted there, Bradley.

I think with JS it would be possible to simulate an iframe opening (not seen by the web user) in someone's web browser that searches for that term + simulates mouse movement. Anyone think so? Traffic can happen from buying them (cheap traffic sources), piggybacking from other sites, Digg submissions, etc.

shady, is that what you were going to do? (background iframe process) because i didn't know what to think when you asked if referrer would come into play, most of the people that search for real trends type it in themselves instead of clicking onto a google search link, I would imagine.

kimboslice

sweet

Musashi

did your testing include following through within the SERP (js)? meaning, did you click through on a result a % of the time... click through and backing out of a click would surly be tracked and factored (imo)

seocracy

Musashi?!??!?!?! On Wickedfire?!?!?!?!

...........where's that ban button.....

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