DumDum

I had a very interesting chat with a potential client today. It wasn't my first similar situation, but I felt like making a thread about this on WickedFire to share my thoughts and hear your opinions.
I was contacted by a potential client asking whether my SEO services could make him about $6k a day off his landing page. I had a rather interesting chat with him. I'm not going to be revealing the identity of the client for obvious reasons, mainly because I know he didn't mean to be an ass but was just clueless about how things actually work and just acted like any other rational human being would and secondly because I don't want to piss him off or hurt his feelings in any way.

The only reason I'm starting this thread is because I want to share the experience with you guys. It isn't meant to attack anyone personally nor is it meant to make the client feel stupid and dumb. He was being perfectly rational in his place.

Phase 1: The Inquiry
This is just the same as any other discussion where the client inquires about the various packages you have available and the pricing. You tell them what you offer and what they can expect. Now suddenly, he asked me if I had any senior SEO experts who could make his landing page rank NOW!
I told him that there's no way on Earth anyone could make his landing page rank NOW for a fairly competitive keyword. He then explained that he meant "within 2 weeks" when he said "NOW".
However, it is still difficult considering Google is sometimes sluggish and lazy in picking up links hence WhiteHat is not the way to go. Possibly GreyHat or Blackhat would do but we don't encourage blackhat much so the SEO guy wouldn't be suggesting any techniques himself, he'd just implement the ones you ask him to.

So far so good, he wanted his landing page to rank for a fairly competitive keyword within 2 weeks, Achievable! However, the shock came in later.

Phase 2: Build be a fuckin' BLOG NETWORK
Whoa!!
He then tells me that he'd want my SEO guy to build him a blog network with a thousand blogs to make his landing page rank. I asked him his budget because it is quite unusual for someone to just talk about a 1000 blog building order during the first chat with an outsourcing company. He claimed, "I make $20,000 a day so don't talk to me about money!". I must say, I was rather surprised but a bit annoyed too at the way he reacted to me asking his budget. (Like I was supposed to know he makes that kinda money).
Anyways, leaving that aside, he wanted to hire one of our senior SEO guys to build him a blog network of 1000 websites. I informed him that he'd require a team of 8-10 junior employees working on the project if he wanted a 1000 blog network to be ready within 3 months. It is kinda impossible within 2 weeks!
However, he showed interest here and I thought he probably is potentially a huge client who would get the company business of about $30,000 a month since he'd probably hire a team of 30-40 in the hopes of getting results in 2 weeks even though I strongly insisted that it is impossible.

Phase 3: Explaining his goals
He then continued explaining that he wanted to make atleast $6k a day off the landing page within 2 weeks. He'd be willing to wait it out for a month or so if the need be but 2 weeks would be preferable.
I didn't LOL at him because I didn't want to sound rude but I did crack up silently.
He then asked me why I was suggesting that he should hire a team of SEO guys? He thought I was trying to sell him as much of my crap as possible.
Honestly, this whole time, I was doing my best to explain that his goals are unrealistic but at the same time I didn't want to lose a client so I said it a bit subtly because he was convinced that this is possible because there is a friend of his who is making that kind of money.

Now here's where I got kinda worried about this entire deal.


Phase 4: Don't try selling me BullShit!

The way the conversation was turning out, it seemed to me like he was convinced I was trying to rip him off. He mentioned that he had a friend making $2k a day off his landing page thanks to a company whom he pays $1.3k a month to!
He wanted to know why I was charging him $2.3k for just one senior SEO specialist when he could get an entire company working for him for $1.3k a month. I didn't want to get into details so I tried explaining to him that e wanted to build a blog network with a 1000 blogs, that was why I was charging him so much.
He insisted that it shouldn't cost so much.
He also said that making $6k off a landing page in 2 weeks is possible because others were doing it. (Even though I suggested that those people have their foundations built pretty firm and that's why they can do it, he just thought that I was too much of a newbie to do it and that's why I was discouraging him from having aims that far fetched.)

Phase 5: The BYE-BYE

I suggested that he should try using the same company too...and he stopped answering on AIM :|




__________________________________________________ ____
C'mon guys, you must understand one thing. YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR.
It gets irritating talking politely to clueless people who try bargaining with you giving examples such as:
My friend is using a company that does the SEo for $1,300 so why should I pay you $30k a month when I can get the same shit cheaper?
This is the kind of answer you'll get: Because you're not getting the SAME shit!. You're just getting shit for $1,300 a month. If you're paying $30k a month, you'll get something worth the $30k a month you'll be paying.




So here's my question to WFers, do you guys face such situations often? If yes, how do you deal with 'em?


NOTE: ONCE AGAIN, I HAVE NO INTENTIONS OF PERSONALLY ATTACKING THE CLIENT WHO CONTACTED ME ASKING ME STUPID QUESTIONS. I WILL LET HIS IDENTITY REMAIN UNDISCLOSED BECAUSE HE WASN'T AT FAULT, IT IS JUST THE WAY ANY NORMAL HUMAN BEING WITH LITTLE SEO KNOWLEDGE WOULD BEHAVE WHEN THEY'RE OUT HIRING!

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DumDum

Oh yeah, and I forgot to add:

He also mentioned that building a blog network with 1000 blogs ain't that tough and shouldn't cost so much. He said I was being unreasonable with my pricing because:

SEO IS NOT TOUGH, IT IS JUST BORING!


___
I didn't even bother clearing out this with him. I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have understood.

SEO requires experience and loads of skill. Basic link building and monkey work is easy but when it comes to REAL, ADVANCED SEO, it is not only difficult but also strenuous on your mind because it involves developing the best strategy to achieve your goals. It is far more complicated than it looks!!!

So guys, everytime you get a client like that being so unreasonable, just point them to this thread to make them realize that they're being asses.

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Bofu2U

Edit: finished reading, sigh.

What a dumbass.

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Donace

lol brillaint; was the client from WF ?

Should compile a little book, 'best customer XYZ'!

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jenzkc

i always wonder why these "SEO" services are marketing themselves if they're so good. someone who's good at SEO should be making enough that they don't need to sell their services for a low price. why would you spend your time doing "SEO" for someone else if you're so good at it?

bb_wolfe

I wouldn't waste my time with a $2300/month client, 23 hours @ $100/hour, no thanks.

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sumitdhawan09

Hello friend,

You make point good. Those that good at SEO should make self rich and no make other rich.

Instead of help client rank on page first for acai or resveratrol and charge tens of thousands month can rank self and make hundreds thousands if no 1 million month.

Good luck bro

bb_wolfe

SEO firms that last and have solid long term relationships with customers almost always have 1-2 big customers at a time. These guys out there with 10-15 low-paying monthly accounts are fucking jokes in my book.

SEO == 9 times the ego of an AM, .9% of the money

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Bofu2U

Touche.

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ayzo

LOL don't worry, chances are that the next seo firm he calls up will promise him whatever he wants and run off with his $10,000.

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miketpowell

Anyone that has dealt with clients before has dealt with that shit and it happens more and more if the product is confusing to many of the clients. You gotta learn to prequalify your buyers as quick as possible without scaring away any good ones. I used to work on this but now I work on LP and it's the same shit, you can't be afraid to have a low CTR if the overall conversion rate is better. I've always seen businesses with good services do great with very exclusive type pre-qualifying.

Really the second you asked him what his budget was he instead told you how much he made you should have said no thanks to his business right there. I've heard this 10+ times in my life before I was experienced enough to know what it meant and everytime it ended with me wasiting a bunch of time and never making any money. I now know to simply cut off all contact. Now I don't mean this for the answer "I'm not sure what my budget is" that answer is acceptable. But don't bother continue talking to someone that tells you how much they make when you ask them for a budget.

AdExhibitJason

The hosting alone if you where to do proper SEO would be a shitload. What I mean by proper is no more than 2-3 sites should share the same IP and even if you paid $3 a mont for each IP that is a cost of $3k. Add in the time to build and other things. LOL

DumDum

Yep, the client is from WF!

I don't know why, but I always LOVE your responses!
I actually look forward to seeing them
btw, Resveratrol was the term he wanted to rank for!

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BradM

Who was it? I want to verbally abuse him.

DumDum

I appreciate your support but it wouldn't be right on my part to reveal his identity.

Knowing what a bunch of assholes we WFers are (leaving no chance to trash a newbie), I'd still now want to give out his details.

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geekcognito

Nah, you're right don't give out his details. That's very unprofessional. In fact, I think that the thread is a little unprofessional since he came from WF but on the flipside, this is the place to discuss this kind of thing.

I have to admit that I'm always impressed when I hear about how others deal with clients. I have no patience for it. Add the very good point that sumitdhawan09 made, and I stopped taking any and all types of clients over a year ago. I just couldn't be bothered with the "push and pull" negotiations any more.

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"Never confuse movement with action." ~Ernest Hemingway

"While you have lost some money, you have also gained some knowledge. So in the end you may have not lossed at all. Good luck bro." ~ Sumitdhawan09

sumitdhawan09

Hello friend,

That is job very difficult if want to rank for just keyword resveratrol alone.

Many site at page front is site of authority. Wikipedia edu site gov site major America media site.

It possible but take time. 2 weeks no think it possible. Maybe few months.

By then many in media may say reseveratrol scam like say with acai and no longer can make a million a month.

Good luck bro

stmadeveloper

I can't believe you called me out on the forum like this. I'm certainly not going to use your services now.







(good to know I'm not the only one who gets calls like this. I rarely deal with anyone who isn't a brick and mortar business these days).

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Black Hat SE0 and SE1 Digest

DumDum

Where else would I discuss this?
DP?
I know it would be unprofessional but c'mon, this IS WHAT WF WAS BUILT FOR!!!

thanks

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HarveyJ

I don't do all that much for other people, but when I do, I usually have a consult with them first. Sit down with them at a computer, look at their site, the code in it, how they're currently performing, etc.
It's free if they don't take me on, but I pad it into the bill later if they do. Helps me figure out

I had one guy that had bought a site and was wondering why it wasn't ranking.
"I keep adding keywords to it, and adding size text at the bottom so it has more keywords in its cloud!"...
*facepalm*

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After 10,000 years I'm free!

DumDum

That is the smarter way to go.
However, the issue we're dealing with here is the case of newbies who ask us something like why we charge $200 per hour while they could get the same thing for $15 per hour from someone other SEO dude.

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jvincent

yes you will make 6k/day if you use my SEO services. first, just read this ebook -- i'll sell it to you on a 6k daily rebill.

nickycakes

Uh no, SEO is not hard. He was absolutely right about that. A braindead monkey could do SEO. It is NOT complicated. There is no "advanced seo". Really, there isn't. Yes its fucking boring, and thats the only hard part about it.

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Nickycakes' Newbie Guide
#cakes irc.freenode.net

Webferret

1000 autoblogs? About 1 week, or 2 if you want them hosted free. Posts per 2 days on average. Totally unique. Would I do it for anyone else? Course not. Too busy doing it for myself.

Drake

Clients Suck.

SEO Clients Suck the most.

DumDum

nope, not autoblogs!!!
He wanted blogs to be manually created, unique manually written content, manual link building!!!
Can you beat that???!!!

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DreamMachine

Hm, lemme guess.. Was it Goo.. I mean UberAffiliate?

Did he talk about going back to college?

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erect

You've lost your fucking mind _or_ you've only watched the game from the sidelines ... which is it?

Yes, Indian SEO a braindead monkey can do. Throw some meta tags in there, submit to a few seo-friendly directories, a few choppy engrish articles to some article directories and you're done.

Real seo is about strategy, tools and focus. Check out some of the shit bofu posts, it'll give you an aneurysm. Now imagine some of the shit he doesn't post ... mind blowing, eh?

Or just keep up with BHseo (link to the most recent post on advanced WH seo which I think is GH at best but w/e) ... Eli didn't make SEO hard, he just showed all you kiddies how deep the rabbit hole actually goes.

Speaking of advanced ... I'm ready for shady to stop paying to sling berries and get back to his organic roots. I've read some of the most enlightening shit on his blog.

... back to PPC for you pattycakes (which you're pretty good at so I hear). Your statement is a disgrace to "reformed blackhats" everywhere. Saying that it's easy & there is no advanced stuff is simply laughable!

geekcognito

Geekcognito thinks that Nickycakes must be so 733t that even the most advanced strategic SEO can be done by Nickycakes blindfolded.

Geekcognito is very impressed. Geekcognito so impressed Geekcognito may start talking like this all the time because he saw somewhere that it must be the cool thing to do.

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"Never confuse movement with action." ~Ernest Hemingway

"While you have lost some money, you have also gained some knowledge. So in the end you may have not lossed at all. Good luck bro." ~ Sumitdhawan09

Webferret

manually written blogs??? Why??? WTF for???? Does he not know that modern autos r pretty much undetectable as not human written????

DumDum

LOL..!!
DumDum luvin it..
DumDum is going to start talking like this too. Even DumDum wants to be cool.

Regards,
DumDum

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micfire

Yeah, I was just about to write the exact same thing.

SEO is probably one of the most boring things I know in IM industry. It involves only robot work and waiting. Of course if you enjoy both of those things, it might be your thing but it sure as hell isn't mine.

nickycakes

took me about 1 hour of work running the oldest linkspam trick in the book to rank on the first page of acai when it was first getting really big. i could do that shit all day long and make a killing but its fucking boring. SEO is easy. sorry.

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Andrew Scherer

lol...


Noobs...

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oziman

Try doing it now, and staying on the first page.

Or try ranking long term for credit cards, then come back and tell me it's a piece of cake ;-)
To each their own, nick..

nickycakes

how about instead of doing that i just do ppc and make 20x more money, do less work, have fun, and have it happen almost instantly?

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Nickycakes' Newbie Guide
#cakes irc.freenode.net

thinkjayant

i second that.. amke a ebook... "HOW TO HIRE A SEO SPECIALIST WHO MAKES YOU LOADS OF MONEY"... LOL..

bb_wolfe

Ding Ding Ding Ding

Bob Barkercakes says we have a winner:

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schockergd

I'm 98% certain I know the parties involved, and am unfortunately the guy who "Pays $1300/mo to hire SEO services and makes $2k/day".

I guess I should of mentioned to him I've been working on a SEO campaign for something like a month and a half now and have set up tons of SEO assets (Autoblogs, ect) to build my sites...Hiring a SEO firm was just a way of bringing in more quality links to my site & support sites.

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Shut up and make some money already.

PM Me if you want a discounted PPC-Coach Subscription.

schockergd

After re-reading this thread a few more times, I guess this whole thing is MY fault as I really didn't explain to him how a good SEO campaign works , i was quite vague with the poor fella.

I know i'm pretty vague when it comes to building SEO stuff, but then i can't say anything that contempt.me or eli haven't said on their blogs. SEO is a time consuming , very profitable thing and you have to have a good grasp of on-page and off-page before you even start, and if you don't know how the 2 work towards rankings you're pretty much just throwing cash in the trash.

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Shut up and make some money already.

PM Me if you want a discounted PPC-Coach Subscription.

erect

As usual, I'm being dogmatic abut my work. I think it really boils down to passion.

NC is throwing shit links at a site for quick ranking (and de-indexing). You're absolutely right, there's nothing fun about that and it is quite easy. To be honest though, that's very, very far from advanced seo since anyone can download a guestbook spammer or pick up xrumer for cheap. That's lazy seo and offers nothing residual or inspiring.

I can also tell by the way cakes writes that he is passionate about other things. That's why seo is not fun for you and also why you've not dug in deep enough to really get to know real advanced seo ... which is fun.

On the other hand, I friggen love what I do so the planning, programming & dominating is so much more fulfilling for me than making the loot.

Back to the OP:



This is where I'd call BS on the bastard. There's no way he was making $833/hour yet took a full hour out of his day to chat (believable) and then tries to go toe to toe over cheap, 2nd rate labor (unbelievable).Come back and talk when you're ready to be honest and realistic.

schockergd

I can vouch for the guy , he does make around $20k/day.

His reason for asking for SEO services are pretty understandable, if you knew the situation you'd agree that SEO is a good idea for him.

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Shut up and make some money already.

PM Me if you want a discounted PPC-Coach Subscription.

erect

Organic ranking is a good idea for everyone. It's free traffic and organic listings receive ~72% of the clicks for every search on google. [source]

My doubt is not how much he makes, rather on the way he decides to spend his time/money and whether that's worthy of calling BS.

When you're a ritch (bitch) you understand how money works and see that there's value in paying top dollar to the best in the biz for desirable results. If he's serious about this and making $7.3MM yearly he should be hiring several firms with emphasis on value not thrifting.

Understanding that he really doesn't know the rules of the game, a ritch (bitch) would hire a singular ranking badass to manage several services and really dominate if his intentions are to just throw money at the problem.

If his interests are "why" 1000 blogs are expensive, a ritch (bitch) would ask someone he knows, trusts & has on staff rather than some random salesman looking to close a deal. Power is information & ritch bitches get the 411 internally.

Just my opinion and I've been wrong twice that I know of.

SniperRyan

One thing I've learned... If they say money is no matter to them, it absolutely is a HUGE matter to them.