papajohn56

Enjoy your tax on air folks, here it comes. Passed the house 219-212, on to the senate. Here come higher electricity bills, higher gas costs, more regulations on light bulbs, higher natural gas bills, and less manufacturing jobs in the U.S. 20% unemployment here we come. This affects us too guys - no disposable income = nobody buying acai berry.

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guerilla

Watch the end of this. Permanent recession. Pretty scary.

But these guys just charge ahead with special interest and ideological agendas, regardless of what constituents think, or how it affects them. These politicians are paid off today, and the effects won't hit the ballot boxes for 3 or 4 election cycles.

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PhillipMarlow

What. The. Fuck.

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popeye

The overwhelming, independent evidence that cap and trade will destroy our country, is out there.These Democrats are either 1) stupid or 2) traitors to the country. There are no other answers for this. I hope these huge increases in energy cost, breaks the backs of the sheeple that voted for Obama and his Chicago gang of traitors.

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CapitalVentures

Glen Beck is my fucking hero! One of the very few people that brings this shit mainstream.

With how setup and crooked this system is with media control I'm surprised this show is even allowed to air.

popeye

Wait and see. Radio and television programs that speak out against the admin. won't be on the air for long.

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Trademark

Hypothetical conversation between Thomas Jefferson and president Obama...

Thomas Jefferson: So, I don't get it... how are you paying for this Cap and Trade thing?

President Obama: Easy. Through future savings.

Jefferson: Say what?

Obama: Well, that and taxes.

Jefferson: ... and taxes...

Obama: Yeah, plus other stuff.

Jefferson: Like what other stuff?

Obama: Well, the Fed's gonna have to print some money to pay for a portion.

Jefferson: They're just going to... print money?

Obama: Yeah.

Jefferson: And the people are cool with that?

Obama: Well, we don't actually ask their permission.

[Jefferson stares blankly at Obama]

Jefferson: Frankly, I'm surprised they're willing to pay taxes each year.

Obama: They don't have a choice in that, either.

Jefferson: What if they don't pay their taxes?

Obama: We lock 'em up. [laughs]

[Jefferson stares blankly at Obama]

Jefferson: They still have firearms, right?

Obama: We'll, we're trying to solve that problem [laughs].

[Jefferson stares blankly at Obama]

Jefferson: You do realize that none of what you've just said is supported by the U.S. Constitution, right?

Obama: Hey, man... what we're doing is for the people and future generations.

Jefferson: Uh-huh. And you know it's unconstitutional, right?

Obama: Listen, I taught constitutional law for a decade. I know the U.S. Constitution like the back of my hand.

[Jefferson stares blankly at Obama. Then rubs his temple.]

Jefferson: I need a smoke to calm my nerves.

Obama: [laughs] Smoke 'em while you can.

Jefferson: [chuckles] ... yeah... Wait. What?

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cardine

^^ The truth.

Fuck Obama.

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guerilla

These are the important things to know.

1. Higher energy prices lead to recession.

2. In a recession, higher energy prices will lead to prolonged recession.

3. Because the price increase is in taxes, supply won't rise (suppliers are not seeing the upside of higher taxes, so they have no incentive to increase supply, on the contrary because demand will drop, they might decrease supply, pushing prices up further still.

4. The trade portion, refers to how firms can trade their excess credits to other firms for money. So if Plant A produces less pollution, they can sell a portion of their cap to Plant B. This will create a new derivatives market, almost like a secondary energy currency, that the banks will use as reserves. So basically, the banks will be the ones controlling the energy industry and with a new financial derivative market, at a time when everyone in the world should be terrified of derivatives.

Also, don't blame Obama. This Al Gore stuff has been the legislative agenda in Washington for nearly a decade. Btw, Al Gore has himself set up to make a lot of money off this.

McCain supported this as well. In fact, a bunch of Republicans crossed the aisle to get this passed.

44 Democrats voted against.

Democrat and Republican are false distinctions. There is no left and right. They all vote for the same programs no matter who is in power.

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_poto_

agreed, they are all corrupt... so many people caught up on partisan bullshit, they can't see the forest from the trees...

I can only hope this legislation fails to pass the senate, otherwise it's the death blow for the US economy

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...

elime

How dare you bring up something this important and life changing when we've so recently lost the king of pop. Because, you know, from what I can see, 99% of the population thinks that's far more devastating.

Brb, I'm going to go turn on my air conditioner and have a cigarette while I still can.

Unfortunately he's a lying sack of shit in too many other departments.

I agree with your post entirely other than this. In a basic sense, he's the president, he has massive influence, and thus - if he gave a shit - could put his weight behind stopping it. So...I don't think it's unreasonable to assign a portion of the blame to him.

I wish more people could see this.

guerilla

Obama won't stop the legislation any more than McCain or Bush would. They are there to rubber stamp the agenda, just like all of the Congress people who vote for bills they don't even read.

Until people realize that, no change will come.

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elime

I'm with you there. My point is that he *could*, but yes, like the rest of them, won't.

FlatLine

The world must be laughing at us, how fucking stupid can we possibly get?

popeye

Yep, China and India are laughing at how we are on the road to giving away the most powerful economy in the world to them. Meanwhile, Russia is laughing because they are just now pulling themselves out of the mess that we are so damned determined to enter into.

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Sticks79

The FTC fucking with shit & now this, GREAT job American Gov.

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amanda11

Scary -- very fuckin' scary. But am I surprised? No.

Canada FTW.

Andrew Scherer

I was expecting this for some time just didn't know when it would actually take effect.

America is really Roman Empiring themselves with this one.

Reminds me to find some other ventures where I'm not getting payments in dollars.

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Refrozen

Yeah, it sure does rock to be in Canada - we've elected nutbags like this every single election ever. Even our Conservatives are crazy swing voting liberal douchebags that buy in to this shit.

Plus, we've got Jack Layton.

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bprimeelite

I am all for protecting the environment and trying to go green but if they decide to look at any facts on this they will see that cap and trade has never worked and has always had a negative affect. What it comes down to is the rich companies buy more credits from small companies who will never use them and the pollution never changes but the companies are forced to pay more for everything. Then of course the companies are going to pass it on to the consumers so expect higher everything if this passes. It seems like our government is trying to ruin our country.

Refrozen

Um, by definition if the cap is lower than the current pollution, pollution is reduced. Maybe not by any one given company, but over the whole.

Its still silly, you're right.

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alexb

We get what we deserve: A government filled with small-minded men who don't read the laws they pass and can't see the consequences of their ultimately insignificant power grabs.

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bprimeelite

What I am getting at Refrozen is that the small companies never use there extra credits anyways and just sell them to the larger companies who will end up using the same amount they always did except for it will just cost them more and the price will be passed on to the consumer. It bankrupted California and hasn't worked overseas where it was implemented. I don't know why they would pass a law that has only damaged every place it has been enacted.

guerilla

Because damaging the economy is profitable for politicians. They get more power in a crisis, and they can use that power to get more money.

I say it all the time. Politicians are the lowest form of life next to bureaucrats. Why people chant their names and wave flags at them and cheer for them is beyond me. I wouldn't hire Bush, Obama, Cheney or Biden to work a car wash, let alone run the largest government in the history of mankind.

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kyleirwin

Ya know what they say... If Democrats had any brains...



they'd be Republicans.

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turpentine

nobody says that.

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sumitdhawan09

Hello friend,

I very interest how this help India. Can explain more?

Good luck bro

Rusky

This isnt about green gas or the environment. The democrats are making a huge power grab - surprisingly fast.
Bank Industry, Auto Industry, now energy. In the real market companies fail or win. But having the government behind a company(like GMC) with unlimited support funds, its like injecting one runner with steroids in a race. They will run the wells fargos, fords, and every private competing company out of business(with cap and trade they'll be able to regulate competition who dont have the money or sufficient technology to conform). Plus this energy bill has lots of fine print that should be looked at carefully. Something fishy about the way this bill was rushed through in a day. This will impact people and business like nothing I've ever seen before. Crazy Stuff.

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subigo

Hey, did you guys hear that the McRib is back at McDonald's??

Wait... what are we talking about?

Seriously, the McRib guys! It's back! Limited time only!

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guerilla

This is not a democrat agenda and this is not new.

You seriously need to give up democrat and republican, in Washington, they don't see the ideological divide that people in flyover country are so consumed with.

It's all about bipartisan power.

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MosherMerner

I think this speaks volumes about this crowd. You all are too busy bashing democrats to realize that this is not a democratic or a republican issue. Its a capitalist corporate domination issue.

You all KNOW where the power lies... many of you have stated it in your polarizing comments.

This is an issue of your government overeaching its power. Power does not lie with Obama. Obama is the driver of the vessel that is our Federal Empire. Just like Bush was and just like Clinton and all the others.

Trademark made a very good point when he brought up the hypothetical convo between Jefferson and Obama. But even here still he sought to capture you with his ideological soup.

Let us note that the erosion of our constitutional rights is not a Left of Right issues. Our constitution sufferes because of corporate special interest. If you really want to go there then i will put this fact to you (keep in mind im not a democrat), the three presidential terms where americans saw civil liberties decrease the most were in the Republican administrations of Nixon, Reagan, and Bush.

I say this to say only that Jefferson would be hard pressed today to even have an enjoyable conversation with many of you. Let alone Obama or anyone involved or complacent with the corrupt corpratist power structure of our State.

Wake up... It is not Obamas fault that we print money and tax our citizens to death to pay the bankmen. Jefferson could have had that conversation with Woodrow Wilson... or any one of his successors up until present day.

The International Banking Institutions need more cash to satisfy their gluttony... so the political climate in the U.S. was set so that the economy/politicians would call for large sums of borrowing. The only way to pay back this massive debt is to tax. In order to impose new extravagant taxes then traditionally you have to have a "liberal democratic" congress and Chief Executive.

There are attrocities that are specific to parties, yes.... ill give you that. But these Non-Sensical, overly ideological arguments that you guys pose become comical to anyone whos eyes are truly open.

Theres no party making any party grab. You have an international banking community that has U.S. corporations, political institutions, and State institutions in check. And they are using our dollar to do it. This is where the power grab is taking place. But yet someone has you fellas convinced its the Democrats.

You actually have the nerve to spread this propaganda as if any of your numbers come to any kind of truth.

As if we should belive a word Glen Beck said.

Like were stupid enough to look at those big childish flash cards and actually belive it. You should be outraged and ashamed that your media networks and channels are showing you cartoon flashcards intead of urls to reputable reports, conducted by an Institution other than the overly partisan Heritage Foundation. (the thinktank cited in Glens video)

On Fox news no less? come on guys.

But it dosnt get any better on CNN either... Misinformation all day long. Dont you guys see a pattern? I mean i know you all have some sort of sense to be doing the work that you do. Are you really this easily manipulated?

Lets have some rational conversation for once. Democrats or Republican... we are all americans. And we need to realize that it is this very two party arrangement that has us fucked. Why must i choose between Democrat or Republican? Why must i always have Dems yelling in my ear about how why guns are the reason that crime is soo high when any person with any sense can see that its a goddamn ploy. Why must i always hear Republicans throwing a fit when someone talks about nationolizing something partially or wholly, when they dont complain about our nationalized roads, or military.

Why must you always be trying to polarize me?

Open your eyes.

jryan21

When someone wants to take away your rights behind a bunch of smoke and mirrors (like restoring rights that we never knew we had in the first place), they call them Democrats.

When someone wants to take away your rights by doing it in front of you and telling you it's for your own good, they call them Republicans.

But if you remember back in 2001, when someone takes away your rights and tells you they are taking away your rights and don't give a fuck what you feel about it, that's what they call bipartisan.

If they want an air tax, they'll get an air tax. If you don't like it, then they will tell you to get all your friends together and boycott air.

nevele

^^^ this man and others in the thread have no idea what they're talking about.
they're obviously unpatriotic, traitorous assholes who have no idea what's best for america and may be harboring weapons of mass distraction.

pay no attention to this nonsense and keep blaming the other camp, gentlemen.

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guerilla

Good post, but the problem is not mostly corporations and certainly not capitalism (properly understood).

The problem is that people are fucking idiots. For example, there are no Constitutional Rights. The Constitution recognizes rights that are inalienable and natural. They exist without a Constitution. Jefferson knew this when he wrote the Declaration.

Natural rights theory is centuries old, and a foundation of Christianity, Classic Liberalism and the Enlightenment. They don't teach that in schools, which is why only home schooled kids normally learn about natural rights, positive/negative rights theory etc.

As long as people think government gives people rights, then the government will always be an institution of too much power and corruption. And most people, as we know, are too fucking stupid to be trusted with a credit card online, so things don't look so positive.

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HBZSoftware.com

The people that buy acai berry get to elect our officials. Until we find a good way to prevent that, this sort of bullshit is going to continue.

LotsOfZeros

Processed pork-paste byproduct pressed into a tasty looking rib-shaped mold and drowned in cheap bbq sauce. It'll taste good going down but can hurt coming out.

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Traska

Fox news is partially responsible for scaring people into not spending their money, by the way.

Glenn Beck, what a chubby little douche bag.

Trademark

To clarify, I certainly did not mean to isolate one president or one political group as the root cause of any problem. I haven't thought along partisan lines in quite awhile. Obama's the standing president, so he made a good proxy. In 4/8 years, we'll have another. My beef is with the central state and their mockery of the U.S. Constitution. All of their evils flow from it.

This was just my attempt to poke a little fun at a distressing situation. I can't pass a dog or cat without imagining thought balloons above their heads. So, this came natural.

* Note to Janet Napolitano: I'm kidding about my beef with the central state. I think Obama's doing a smashing job. And that outfit looks great on you. And your kids are cute, too. Seriously.

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papajohn56

really, i thought it was, you know, their houses being foreclosed on, losing their jobs, and gas prices going up. but hey, blame fox news, it makes sense too

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tacoX

I'M A REGISTERED REPUBLICAN

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elime

American capitalism gone with a whimper - Pravda.Ru

invisible777

That's interesting. I thought it was the 9.4% national unemployment rate.

What's great about Barack Obama is that he is going to be an example of the greatest false advertising campaign in American history. Nothing is going to "change" or improve under his Presidency given his track record thus far as president. In fact, by most measures, things have gotten worse. And given that the Democratic "leadership" in the House and Senate is incompetent, the general US population is going to see what happens when lefties get all the control.

nvanprooyen

Haha, nice.

Obama: I have to use the men's room.

Jefferson: #1 or #2?

Obama: #2

Jefferson: Bad news, I used the rest of the toilet paper.

Obama: No problem. I'll just use that document you were talking about earlier. What was it called again?

Jefferson: THE CONSTITUTION?!?!?

Obama: Ya, that's the one. Be back in about 15 minutes.

chatmasta

That's what I call an entrance.

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charlie.simm

It doesn't matter who gets elected, seriously. Thinking that a politician can "save the world" is like hiring the guy who molested 3 kids from your son's school as a babysitter.

Politicians are here to rape you anally. I stopped living in denial a long time ago. I mean yeah, you're gonna get loved tenderly by the officials but it doesn't mean that you can't be happy or make lots of money.

Capitalism isn't perfect but what alternatives do we have? Communism? People who make lots of money get to pull the strings, that's basically all there is to it.

1) Decide that you wanna become a politician
2) ???
3) Push the "right" agendas after getting elected
4) Profit

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envision

This veered off into a side discussion of which (if any) party is to blame, but I'll be the spoiler to the party on the initial points.

First, I also think that cap and trade is a flawed concept, mainly for the reasons bprimeelite pointed out. I don't like it. But ...

I grew up in Germany, came to the US as an adult and have been living here for about 5 years. What I noticed almost right away is an awfully thoughtless and wasteful behavior towards energy here, coupled with an incredible sense of entitlement to cheap energy rates.

Examples:
I worked in an office where it wouldn't even cross peoples' mind to turn off their desktop computer incl their monitor in the evening, not even on a Friday. Result: the computer sits there the whole weekend drawing screensavers. And all for what? to save the 2 mins it takes to boot up on Monday morning?

A friend forgot something from the store and we also want to get a DVD from Blockbusters there. When we leave the place, the TV is left on along with the surround sound system and all lights in two rooms and the kitchen.

It takes 8 mins (I timed it once) to walk to the store. He drives. Of course. When I propose walking, I get a look as if I came from Mars.

We buy one item in the store, in a container that has already a handle built in. The check-out clerk automatically wants to put the thing in plastic bags. Not one, but two - because it's so heavy. I say I don't want bags, I can just as well carry the thing with its own handle. The clerk takes the bags he already has in his hands, crumbles them up and thows them in the trash. I say "The idea was to save the bags", all I get is a blank stare.

At home, in the winter, the heavy vertical blinds on my window move around although the window is closed. The heat escaping through the unisolated and not tightly closing windows creates a thermal draft. But since it's a rental apt and tenants pay the energy bill, the landlord has no incentive to insulate the house properly.

Almost all self-service restaurants serve their food on throw-away plates and cups, with plastic utensils and a pile of paper napkins you didn't ask for. Hell, often even when I go to a nice bar where they charge 10 bucsk for a drink, I get it in a friggin plastic cup, as if I was at McDonalds.

Recently, I was in Roberto's Taqueria on Mission Beach in San Diego, apparently a popular spot and known for its huge portions. A couple next to us had the table full of food, probably like 3 dishes between the two of them. Of course they couldn't finish. One of the plates with literally a mountain of shreddded beef, beans, rice and cheese went straight into the trash nearly untouched.

How is that related? It takes energy to raise cattle and other ingredients, process and transport them and cook the food. And, plastic bags, cups and utensils are made from oil, the same oil as your gasoline. Demand influences price.

I could continue this list almost endlessly. Few of those scenes would ever play out that way in Germany. We also pay over $6 a gallon for gasoline and much higher rates for electricity. Did it bankrupt our country? Did it ruin our industry? No. We've been hit by the global recession like everyone else, but we're doing ok. Still number one exporter in the world, even ahead of China. High energy costs did not break our necks. And although no one likes high gas prices, people there don't complain nearly as much as they do here when prices approach the $3 mark.

I think this country has a long way to go to offset higher energy prices with less wasteful behavior and that would ultimately be a good thing.

papajohn56

oh here we go - obama wants to keep guantanamo open and continue indefinite detainment. ahah where is this "change"?

White House Weighs Exec Order On Detention - CBS News

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Rusky

Dems are in control now. I know the other side has its downs. But I'm talking about the original ideals of conservatives. Not the two faces we have now.
We need to flush the toilet, I agree.

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traders32

this is so F@^%#^@% up
it will cost each family $2000 extra a year.