bprimeelite

I guess what we can all take from this is if a random person calls you and starts asking questions it is probably Ruck.

Pr0xyhub

haha i lol'd

johu

I think it's a perfectly fine way of conducting business. Better to let a few affiliates go because network approval standards are really strict than to let in fraud. I've been on the advertiser side before, and I can assure you that some advertisers will pull an offer from a network at the first sign of fraud. Fraud has gotten so out of hand recently that that level of paranoia is necessary to survive. Networks are a dime a dozen these days - What's going to survive, the one that has fraudulent publishers get through, or the one that stays clean?

hannahmcintyre

Yeah, gotta give props to Ruck on this. Those of you bitching about the process need to really read up on affiliate fraud and realize that these measures Ruck takes that you find annoying actually help you in the long run.

Less fraud on C2M means more money for everyone involved.

So stop your bitching and props to Ruck for going the extra mile to protect C2M.

CPAPIMP

yup.

__________________

AngryMac

so i guess i should call C2M back eh?... some one called me about a week ago saying they'd call me back in 24 hours after they spoke to their manager. Just figured they didnt want a newbie affiliate

Ruck

Dont mind new pubs man at all. If you're serious, so are we.

Webtistic

The amount of fraudulent applications is getting ridiculous across all networks with increasingly sophisticated strategies for opening accounts.

Kudos to Ruck and C2M for going down this route.

__________________
Dave Bird: Founder
Monetise- THE LEADING UK CPA NETWORK

CPW-Carl

lol I wonder how many signups C2M will get now because somebody started a bitch thread. I know I just went and had a look at their site

ayzo

Yep, I blame the "guru" nut huggers:

Was any of the "old guys" On The Arbitrage Conspiracy conf. call tonite?



Coincidence? I think not.

__________________

ayzo

Haha, Jon called it:

__________________

Ruck

7 that I know of so far. We'll be following up today

Drew Iza

Sounds like a good thread.

More sign ups for C2M
More affliates aware of the fraud procedure.

That's what you call a win-win.

If you see this Ruck what are your hours and what time standard are you on? And should I call back the number you called me from?

__________________

Mike

LOL!! No such thing as bad publicity!

I'm amazed that this thread continued for so long over a phone call. Like another member said just answer the phone with your name. If I don't recognize the number thats what I do, because it may be someone I want to talk to and I want to let them know they've reached a businessperson and not a random number.

__________________

ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒE

tjewsky

"Networks are a dime a dozen these days" .... not true at all

mattfca

this could be a well staged publicity act.
because now im gonna sign up :P

__________________
mattf.ca

ruins411

I honestly don't know why you guys are sticking up for Ruck in this situation? He treated this guy poorly before he even got to know him. This first phone call is not only to weed out fraud but an opportunity to establish how the relationship is gonna go. If Ruck is starting you with an F right away and you gotta build up to an A where is the trust that is crucial for a solid AM affiliate relationship.

Do you guys have a Quality and Compliance team at C2M? Dude invest in some technology and staff to weed out fraud man. Ask more tactical questions and do your research.

MaxSteve

The reality is that C2M is his network and he can see fit to run it anyway he wants. He knows the kind of afifliates he wants, and the kind he doesn't want and if he gets the kinds of affiliates he wants with his tactics, more power to him. One of the benefits of owning a network.

It cannot be stressed enough how many fraud affiliates try to get into networks anymore, and how complex their tactics have become. Fraud applications have increased tenfold over the past year or two, and a simple "how's it going" call isn't always enough to stop them. For every strategy a network devises to flag fraud, the fraudsters find a way around it within weeks.

I know it might sound strange to affiliates that networks sometimes take a harsh approach initially on the application process, but if you've ever been in a position where you have to fight with a merchant to get payment when they feel they've been burned by fraud, you'd understand. It sucks. Beyond the fact that you might not get paid for leads you've already paid affiliates for, you have to live with the fact that there's a merchant out there who might think of you as nothing but a scam network. It doesn't matter that the label is unwarranted, networks take great pride in their reputation and don't like leaving merchants pissed off like that.

__________________
Let me slip my MAX into your BOUNTY.
Steven Sauve
steve at maxbounty.com / AIM = maxbountysteve
http://www.maxbounty.com
Want a 80" Sharp Aquos LED TV? http://www.maxbounty.com/vindalecontest.cfm

Ruck

I better listen to you because it's clear you understand exactly what's going on behind the scenes. Ohh, if you would like to talk about quality and compliance if I was a dick I would shoot the mouth off about networks (some) from this very forum who ask for my help regarding affiliate research and approval procedures.

So if other networks who have been established years before I came along are asking for a little bit of help, you clearly have put me in my place.

Being a nice guy and appealing to all is something I could care less about. You face a merchant that gets one bad pub on a campaign and decides to not pay at all on a 2 million+ bill I might start listening to someone else's ideas on how to accept pubs.

{edit was in reply to ruins}

gage

Networks or any business in AM need to figure out there needs to be a level of customer service involved in every aspect of their business.

I don't care how much fraud is out there and what "tactics" you have to use to help yourself out, but when I could be super beneficial to your or anyone's network/business you better give me the amount of respect I've given you answering your phone call.

You may not need me and I may not need you but that doesn't mean we couldn't make something that rocks the house if we teamed up - get what I'm saying? //g

Ruck

^^^

Totally.

Would like to think I'm trying: Tips From A C2M Millionaire | Convert2Media

ruins411

[QUOTE=Ruck;587631]I better listen to you because it's clear you understand exactly what's going on behind the scenes. Ohh, if you would like to talk about quality and compliance if I was a dick I would shoot the mouth off about networks (some) from this very forum who ask for my help regarding affiliate research and approval procedures.

So if other networks who have been established years before I came along are asking for a little bit of help, you clearly have put me in my place.

Being a nice guy and appealing to all is something I could care less about. You face a merchant that gets one bad pub on a campaign and decides to not pay at all on a 2 million+ bill I might start listening to someone else's ideas on how to accept pubs.

Haha dude i'm not trying to give you any advice man. You can do things however you want. I just understand how this guy would be pissed and you're trying to make it all "I do what I gotta do" but you don't have to do what you did to ensure that quality pubs are getting on the network.

Detecting fraud before it happens should be (and is) a huge priority for every big network. Fraud is horrible for advertisers and also effects affiliates that had nothing to do with it with lowered payouts, offer going away, etc. We've invested a lot of time and resources into making sure no sketchy pubs get on the network.

Sure its not foolproof and sketchy people are always going to look for ways to get around the newest detection methods but we make it priority to stay ahead of the curve through various methods.

Bottom line is that I rarely see fraud coming through our network anymore because sketchy pubs are never given the opportunity and the few that do manage to wiggle through are quickly taken care of.

All the while we continue to treat affiliates well from the get go...

KGL

Word. Publicity is publicity. Period. In regards to this thread, 7 new sign ups is proof of that. Folks wanna get on the winning team.

tjewsky

Ruck, if you get stiffed by an advertiser because of one bad pub, then u have a bad relationship. Why in the world would an advertiser stiff u for $2 mm in business for one pub? And, why would u do busines with an adv like that?

Ruck

More signups thru the day but irrevelant. I see your point ruins and I thought you were having a go with me. Honestly, I've taken all feedback from this thread into consideration so I appreciate it.

A bad relationship that was based on weekly payments and zero problems up until one situation. Credit references, working with other networks, widely known, have met at shows. I could go on.

And the funds were recovered. That was an example. As for stiffing us for 2 million because of one pub, you're asking the same question I did. I've recovered all funds from every advertiser that has pulled shit like this except for one which was a tiny bill of 7K.

I'm just putting things out there that some people might not understand. And if you are talking about bad relationships from advertisers pulling shady shit, check out the affiliate managers forum. I'm far from being alone on this. You pick any network out there, they've faced similar situations.

BTW - I would have quit talking a long time ago because most of this is just sittin around bullshittin and gone off topic but Jonny-boy has explicit rules on Moderators promoting shit however I am entitled to answer every reply so I'll indulge.

bprimeelite

Yes actually it is true. Good networks are the ones that there are not many of but I get inquiries daily from different affiliate marketing companies popping up or people/small companies trying to get me to bring them leads individually. There are only 5-6 good networks and I would rather have a place that is tough to get into then a fraud shitfest network where they scrub everything like crazy because half the people sending them leads are doing it through ways that don't generate good leads etc.

nvanprooyen

[quote=ruins411;587658]Quote Fail.

__________________
Interested in networking? Connect with me on LinkedIn.

JamesH

C2M just called me and they weren't rude or anything. Not quite sure I understand one of there policies they told me about, but I'll talk to my AM about it.

VonDoogan

you just had your own little quote fail tough guy

Ruck

We saw ya coming James






Now must work on conversion

Crisis

Ooh, I'm late to the party but I'll still add my piece. If you are ringing my phone, YOU should identify yourself first and if you are after someone in particular you should name them (first name?). Although I also agree with the guy who said, if you sign up to an affiliate network you should expect a phone call within 72 hours.

ricdes

next time just answer with "I'm rick james bitch" and don't bother posting it on WF.

__________________
Twitter them ricdes's

Bombastic

It sounds like a good tactic to use. It's better than just not accepting people based on a suspicion.

RDKUT

I have software we use in our collection business to verify identitys.. If anybody needs a tracing solution I can refer you to the right guys

heavyt

meh been meaning to sign up, thought I did but whatever

DangerBrown

Ruck, this doesn't make any sense. I'm sure you haven't prevented 1 fraudulent affiliate from getting in because of this tactic. I'm sure you have other tactics which are probably working.

I understand it this way.
1. You call up in a non-businesslike manner refusing to announce yourself.
2. You identify yourself and hang up like a prank caller.
3. You wait for the potential affiliate to call you back.
4. The affiliate may call you back and you have to use your standard fraud prevention measures to screen them.

There is no fraud prevention in this at all. It's rude at best and more importantly is a waste of everyone's time. If it made sense as fraud protection, you could justify it.

That being said, I should sign up with C2M. I've heard only good things about you with the exception of your phone etiquette.

Ruck

It doesnt make sense because you are not in my position so honestly you have no idea and your answer is not backed by the thousands of applications me and my team have denied.

One thing is for certain. I run a CPA Network to keep Publishers and Advertisers happy and build BOTH of their businesses. So in short:

1. Publishers working with us - no complaints.
2. Advertisers and Partners signing on - major backlog

So while I take in considerations of opinions it's not really going to change the way we do things. Signup, we'll give ya a call

jenzkc

i don't see why everyone is fussing about saying their name when they've been called. what is the issue there? seriously...

big up to C2M for being so proactive.

TFLNetwork

Get a virgin mobile prepaid "business" cell phone and use it for your AM activities; if you are so afraid of saying your name on your personal one, you'll know who is calling on this one. Simple.

Crisis

The problem isn't about giving your name, I'm sure every affiliate here would be happy to share it provided they know who they are speaking to. Not everyone feels comfortable with giving out their name to an unidentified caller, especially in the affiliate marketing circle.

While I see where you're coming from Ruck, a part of me feels like you might potentially miss out on a few great affiliates because of it. On the other hand, you will say it's probably worth it to prevent the losses.

audax

Who the fuck answers their business phone by just saying "Hello?" This whole situation would have been avoided if the OP had simply stated their name when answering the phone ("This is <fname>") like a typical professional would have.

Ruck

I'm sure I do miss out on business. I'm currently missing out on the Op's business because we keep missing each other but you are right that it is worth it to prevent losses.

We dont do this all the time either. It just happened to be me calling that day because we are over 300 pending applications in the whole and I have been a bit more aggressive as usual. I personally call very many ways, it just happened to be this way that day.

Pretty good move too. Without so many opinions on these issues who knows if we would have been able to sign up the 33 current pubs who have commented about this thread in their apps. With 2,400+ views there is a lesson here on differentiation. Different gets results, no matter what they may be.

spinkick-pro

props for the anti-fraud dept at C2M. If you're looking to take on a noob, PM me for my phone number, maybe i can get approved faster.

Drew Iza

Yea we do keep missing each other... If I still lived in Winter Park I would just come get approved in person LoL. I've been so hectic and busy that I'm just noticing how this thread has grown. Looks like a positive.

What if this whole thing was staged? Little bit of controversial marketing.

__________________

Supergeek

Just a suggestion for Ruck.. instead of asking &quot;Who am I speaking with?&quot; off the bat, you could say something along the lines of &quot;I'm returning a confidential call and I can only speak to the intended person; would you please identify yourself?&quot; Of course, if someone is sharing a phone line (college dorm or home line) and someone else answers, what happens? You just say &quot;Sorry, I'm looking for someone else, bye&quot;? That would sound really fishy to me if I hadn't read this thread. I understand the need to weed out scammers, but there's gotta be a better way to vet people. JFC this post parser is all fucked up. My quotes get turned into &quot; and my carriage returns are stripped out.

__________________
I <3 LAMP. I can also write and edit for $35/hr. Hire me.

Play EverQuest? Want to cheat?

sweeppicker

C2M is one of the best networks period. They ALWAYS pay on time and are very helpful. Im not pushing massive volume yet but regardless this the network I wanna work with.
Great job Ruck.

harrymouni

surely you could stop fraud on affiliate networks be requiring a credit card to sign up, charging a random charge between $1 and $5 and requiring that number to sign up, like paypal. then only make cheques out to that name and billing address.

ayzo

You can get a prepaid credit card with ANY address you want for $10 + desired balance so that wouldn't solve anything and probably put off new publishers from joining.

__________________

TripleClickPro

:::yawn:::

don't you boys have a bedtime?

Jon

Sounds like RACIAL PROFILING to me..

__________________