UnripeArbiter

:steps back out of corner:

Last night, I was sleep deprived.... I took offense to this last night, but now I can think clearly.

You can't compare (belief or religion) bashing to racism.

Here's why:

You can choose to change your beliefs, however someone can't choose their race.

If that's not enough.
All races are equal while all beliefs aren't.

Someone could believe that flowing through electrical wires are little green men so small that we can't see them each carrying a little bucket of "power juice" to their destination. This belief would be ridiculed quickly. This wouldn't be considered offensive. It also can't be proven wrong since the person believes we can't see them. It would be good to point out the ridiculousness of this statement to the person (we want them to be an electrical engineer), their beliefs are false.

All of this scales right up to religion (where it gets offensive).

I can bash other religions (but I'll stop) because one belief can be proven superior to others. Theists will get mad as hell at the statement I just made, however they have no problem looking at the "inferiority" of Islam (or any other religion that they don't believe in). So even they know that all beliefs aren't equal.

There are a million different people all believing their "little green men" theories.

Some beliefs need bashing! It's good for mankind. I want the "little green man believer" from above to be an electrical engineer so he can make cool shit for mankind.

I want theists to step down from their pedestals, walk into reality, and free themselves from the burden of their belief system (they even admit to struggling about their beliefs).

An atheist doesn't really struggle with his or hers belief too much. (we may quibble about minor semantics) Atheists want to free others from their "belief burden".

I think it's a noble thing. (Even though I'm not always noble about it.)

We get accused of having no morals and being completely intolerant. Now, I'm being equated to a racist. It doesn't hold water.

I want to free minds. (although I'm not successful at it.)



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And I still think that theists are "entering the arena" under their own volition every time they argue with me.

I never post to a random person and ask, "what do you believe"? (although, I may post "offensive" atheist material, just as they could post "offensive" Christian material) They usually come at me with the attacks. (which I was trying to show with my ridiculous posts above) I'm not posting to anyone that hasn't somehow given me permission to engage.

The debates are intense and it gets offensive for people once we reach a point and I sometimes don't see where that line is. It's only offensive, however, because we're talking about beliefs. If they were intellectually honest with themselves they could change that belief.

Someone can't change their race. So please don't equate me to a racist. It may approach intolerance similar to racism. But some beliefs are intolerable. No race is intolerable and all races are equal. Some beliefs are intolerable and all beliefs aren't equal. See the difference.

So... it may be "akin to racism", but it sure as shit isn't racism.

In fact, if I'm being honest about my beliefs (you don't have to believe it). I think atheism is downright noble.

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This said, I do realize that in the current society we live it's offensive just to be an atheist. So I'll try to tone down my rhetoric. For the sake of everyone.

LotsOfZeros

HUGE LULZ ChrisS
I'm all out of +Rep right now

Somebody please +Rep this Pedo NOW!

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"Concentrated power has always been the enemy of liberty" ~ Ronald Reagan

erect

Took you long enough, was starting to get concerned you pussed out.

I can compare it & did not say it was equal to it. What is similar is the hatred, bigotry & prejudice that goes along with it.

Liberals are extremely misguided, but do I hate them? Is there a need to find liberal bashing, militant conservative music to make me feel more secure in my beliefs? Of course not to both.

Beliefs are part of a person just as much as their skin color. Hatred towards either is just another form of intolerance. The only difference is that you physically can't change that part about you ... or can you?





Same with the belief that the earth was flat but those bashers sure looked like fools too.

The only way you can prove that you are right and religious people are wrong is to prove that life was spontaneously generated .. you can't do that. So what we have here is blind hatred.

They don't "know" that. They falsely assume that and look like total idiots for doing so. However, there will be a point where somebody's beliefs can be proven ... we're nowhere close to that.

I was taught that Jews & other religions were wrong and were inferior ... they even went as far as bashing other sects of Christianity. Did I mention that those are the bible thumpers I hated most in life? It's 100% due to their intolerance and desire to shove their beliefs down other people's throats (sound familiar?). Even though I used the word "hate", you still don't see me going around taking cheap shots daily. In fact, I'm pretty sure this is the 1st thread I've ever brought it up here.

I've been rejecting their ideology since I was about 8 years old so much so that I rejected religion in general due to all the bigotry and hypocrisy I've seen. Never lost faith in intelligent design though.

I think the word you're looking for is "challenging"

Now you are the misguided one. Just because you have issues with theology doesn't mean that everyone else is struggling and won't admit it. Catholics are the only ones burdened by their religion, but they get to get it off their chest weekly in confession.

Correct, you guys love imposing. When you do it intelligently it's called debating and is welcomed, otherwise it's called bashing and intolerance.

100% agreed

I don't think you'll find that around here. There are enough 500 post threads where nobody gets reduced to tears to speak otherwise.

Exactly what I meant.

Everyone feels that way about their beliefs, you're not special.

hellblazer

The reason you two are even having this discussion is the same thing I've been saying all along; atheism is nothing more than religion bashing. It isn't a positive belief; it's a negative belief. It doesn't believe anything; it disbelieves something. It doesn't add anything; it takes away from something else.

This is why I call it a parasitical ideology; without religion, atheism wouldn't exist because they basically don't do anything but talk about how bad religion is and how they're wrong and blah blah blah.

This is why you can't separate the two; they're one and the same. I don't particularly care, but nobody can pretend to be surprised when atheists end up bashing religion. It's basically all they do. I find it rather boring, actually.

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"Be a champ. Like I never was."

LotsOfZeros

What do you mean "YOU PEOPLE"?

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"Concentrated power has always been the enemy of liberty" ~ Ronald Reagan

popeye

Your an internet idiot so I dont have nothing to prove to you. It was part of the training I recieved in the military. If you had some kind of knowledge, outside of the shit your professors gave to you in college, you would understand.

Have you ever seen a friend die a horrible death right in front of your eyes?, have you experienced your child being born right in front you? Do you pay more in taxes than most people earn a year? Do you give more to charities than some make in a year? Have you killed a man? Have you ran a real business and put Americans to work? Are you responsible for raising a decent human being?

I thought so. I once was a ignorant liberal like yourself. Then I experienced life outside of the class room. The theorys my profs pounded in my head, turned out to be a bunched of theorys and thats all. They really didnt apply to the real world. Come back and preach to me when you really have lived a life.

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UnripeArbiter

Agreed. I need to tone down the rhetoric. My biggest mistake was posting this comment below. Which severely crippled my position.

I was really in the mood (due to things in my life) to listen to some music that supported my beliefs. (not because I was needing validation, however, just FTR.)

I know this wasn't the correct way to ask for that music as evidenced by the type of music that others posted after I made this comment. (satanist, death metal, etc.) It wasn't the right way to ask period.

You may not need to, but I'm sure you would find those songs enjoyable. But, I get your point... There's no need to go seeking out this music. Unless, all of a sudden you thought the liberal world was collapsing on top of you and you needed an escape. (which is all I wanted, not validation or security, but an escape.)

Well... this is funny. I'll admit. But you know this isn't actually changing one's race. (and I know you already knew that and are just making a joke)

However, when you say, "beliefs are part of a person just as much as their skin color." That's is true insofar as they are personal things. However, the fact still remains, beliefs can be changed and race can't. Skin color can be changed, but that doesn't change one's race.

Hatred toward either race or beliefs is intolerance, agreed. Which is why I cringe over the fact that I posted I wanted "religion bashing" music. I want that thread to die and bury itself.

The flat earth bashers turned out to be correct. (doesn't matter, I know) They were before their time and weren't tolerated.

Yes, but we can prove that we have no evidence either for the lack of god nor for the presence of god.

We can point out that it's senseless to believe in something you have no evidence for.

There isn't any proof for the lack of god either, I know.

So, maybe one shouldn't be an atheist? What are my other options then? I could choose to believe in a god, but still there is no evidence... I could choose to be a deist and just accept that there may be a god, but doesn't care about us... but still there's no reason to become a deist due to lack of evidence.

So the final position one must take is ultimately, agnosticism. Since one can neither prove or disprove a god. The final position of an intellectually honest person must be agnosticism. The final position isn't theism.

In short, it's isn't blind hatred when you know that the claims one's battling have no evidence. (I'll even go so far as to speculate that they will never have evidence either but that's pure conjecture.)

Furthermore, just because they can't be proven doesn't mean they're wrong......but that's just silly. There are an infinite number of things that one could conceive and then provide no evidence for. Another way to put this statement is, just because they can't be proven doesn't mean that they're right.

Agreed, I was trying to prevent a theist backlash after I made the statement that one belief could be superior to others. They would have pointed to me and called me a bigot. Just pointing out that even theists themselves can make judgement calls regarding other religions just as the atheist can.

Well, you said hated as in past tense. I'm guessing your passions about the issue aren't as strong now. At that time when your passions were the highest you may have let a cheap shot or two slip by (maybe not). My passions are high hence I let cheap shots slip by. I'm trying to tone down the rhetoric, however. But, at least we both admit that we're humans.

Yes, I must remove bashing from my vocabulary. (serious comment)

Not every religious person has struggles with their belief. However, it's a common theme I get from theistic anecdotes. Enough so that it's the impression I'm under. It may not and probably isn't true. So I digress.

I'll try to stick to the intelligent debate. Again, starting a little bit ago, I'm toning down my rhetoric.

They may not be reduced to tears, but, nevertheless they're offended. (This may be why you sent me that PM in the first place.)

So we agree that racism isn't equitable to atheism. (this is more a FTR thing. I know this wasn't your original position) I still get your point that insofar as the prejudice, bigotry, etc. that it is similar to racism.

Again, I'll tone it down.

No.... that means that all of us are special.

UnripeArbiter

Shit Happens.

UnripeArbiter

Back on topic:

The fact that we can't tell if Fox was intentionally doing this to be misleading or if it was merely a mistake clearly points out that Fox is known for being misleading.

Otherwise, we would have clearly known this is a mistake. But, it isn't clear is it?

medicalhumor

UnripeArbiter - honestly, I don't have time to read all your posts, how is it you find time to write all that shit?

Go back to makin' some money

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pro-life
adj. Valuing human life until birth.

UnripeArbiter

Agreed, however I only care if the individuals I'm addressing these posts to are the ones reading them. Which they are, trust me.

I've already stated somewheres that I don't work I automate.

It frees my time. So then I can free those minds.

JK, but seriously. People need to automate at every corner that's all I can say.

Aside from that bullshit I just said, I really do need to work more.

I've taken a well deserved (hopefully brief) hiatus lately.

Thanks for the concern.

ukdesign

it is a worse thing i ever seen.

xboxlive

We have seen the religion of unbelief in America literally elaborated into a system and applied in a wholesale social experiment. We are seeing every societal institution: Church, state, family, economy, morality, welfare being targeted for comprehensive reconstruction on humanist foundations, in a utopian crusade toward the final emancipation and salvation of mankind.

The state born of unbelief is omnipotent, omnipresent, meddlesome, centralized, and bureaucratic. It has to be this way because it’s got a huge job to do. You see, in the absence of God, the state must become God. The state must fill in as supreme judge, lawgiver and king, as provider, as comforter of the afflicted; and without Jesus Christ, the state must become the “savior” of mankind. The state born of unbelief cannot be regulated, amended, voted or vetoed out of existence. Political revisions are temporary and meaningless because it springs from an underlying religious belief system and worldview. Conventional political action is futile so long as the ideas of unbelief remain lodged in the machinery of public policy.

Political conservatism has always lacked the backbone and vision to offer a clear and organized alternative. In futility, it has sought to bring political and social change without Christ or the Bible, thus seeking to treat the symptoms of the humanist/socialist state without providing a remedy for its underlying causes.

BluuueJammm

I would love to not debate people about this, however the religious in the world just walk over everything with there beliefs in lots of different ways. If atheists don't stand up to them then things will never change.

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SUP3RNOVA

I haven't even read this entire thread. But that statement is WRONG.

You have used 'your' in the wrong spot more than once, I just didn't want to be a prick and call it out.

The only childish one here is you.

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am I allowed to link to my forum here?

UnripeArbiter

It's still a typo....

I'm still aware of the difference....

and it's still childish to point at typos.....

even more childish to point it out twice....

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you didn't want to call it out because it would be childish. You're childish.

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SUP3RNOVA

Unripe clearly has way too much time to "debate" this with "us", damn dude you type way too much.

By the way I think it's hilarious how you keep trying to refer to your arguments by saying "we believe, we disagree". Who is on your side? Who is here taking your back? There is no "we", this is "you". Nobody would be stupid enough to take your side after the idiocy you've displayed.

I mean really, it looks like you either have a mental disorder, or smoke too much pot and are lost in your own mind.

You're much too concerned with everybody arguing personal beliefs (and for that matter, hating all theists). Shit man, you are TERRIBLE at arguing. I agree with finding an atheist forum, that or just start your own forum and talk to yourself - you seem to be good at it.

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am I allowed to link to my forum here?

thunderlips

spoon proof or you're a liar.

SUP3RNOVA

Says who? YOU.

Stop trying to put words into my mouth, once again (damn, I get repetitive with you don't I).

I didn't want to be a prick. But since you had to try and recover from another losing argument, it is clear you have a hard time using the proper words in the proper places. I have multiple examples of you using 'your' improperly. What do you have?

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am I allowed to link to my forum here?

UnripeArbiter

:sighs:

You say you didn't want to be a prick by calling it out.

Yes, it would be "prickish" and childish. (it is childish, seriously... to point out typos is lame as fuck)

Do you seriously think that I haven't yet learned in life the difference between your and you're?

You're truly living in a fantasy world.

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SUP3RNOVA

I would consider multiple "typos" on a single common word to be an error in using the word. You learned the difference I'm sure, you just have trouble using it (as noted by your multiple "typos").

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am I allowed to link to my forum here?

UnripeArbiter

:sighs:

Think what you want. (fantasy world)

Read your PM.

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