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Old 02-29-2012, 01:04 PM   #1
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Fuck Street Self Defense

I ride the bus in the morning with a neighbor of mine who is in his late 20's and not a small guy. This morning, he tells me that some crazy guy blocked his path trying to get home last night and spit in his face for no reason with a lot of "what are you gonna do about it??" shit.

It wasn't someone he knew, and the guy followed him into a Wendy's where a retired cop threatened to mace him if he didn't leave. The whole scene played out for like 15-20 minutes.

There's a lot of bums, junkies and all-around crazies in these parts. My neighbor was smart enough to not try and fight some guy who could have easily had a knife or AIDS or something, so he walked away which was absolutely the right thing to do. If he'd been punched or otherwise attacked, it would not have ended well for the other guy.

Carrying pepper spray seems like a battered-womens shelter strategy, and carrying a knife is retarded unless you're really prepared to catch a charge over some guy who spat on you.

This is a concealed carry state, but again... shoot someone on a city street for spitting on you and see what happens. I used to carry a small ball-hammer in the inside pocket of my coat, but never had to use it. I don't often run into problems because I too am not a small guy. But a situation like what he described would have found anyone who was walking down that street.

So what are some viable options for personal protection?

In b4 "learn BJJ" and "kick his ass Sea Bass!". Not every adult with a life and a family and a job and things to lose wants to end up in the police blotter or jail. The courts in real life don't work like they do on Law & Order so let's just skip the tough guy brawler talk and get practical.
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Old 02-29-2012, 01:09 PM   #2
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Well MMAs don't just teach you how to kick someone's ass, they also teach you how to restrain someone and defend yourself from an attack. So that is one option.
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Old 02-29-2012, 01:15 PM   #3
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i doubt you'd have to shoot him. Just pulling out a .45 magnum alone is enough to make most people kiss your feet. If he doesn't start firing at his feet and make him dance for a bit. Fuck, record it and upload to youtube = profit
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Old 02-29-2012, 01:16 PM   #4
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Get like a "civilian" styled tazer gun. Like one of these:



I don't know about over there, but they sell them all over the place here.
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Old 02-29-2012, 01:18 PM   #5
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Krav Maga is realistic for street fighting situations, and you can become "proficient" in a few months. At least, enough so that you would know how to apply non-lethal force for a lot of different situations, and get used to knowing how to throw a punch/elbow/kick.

I think that's the best way to really learn self defense unless you plan to carry a weapon with you at all times.
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Old 02-29-2012, 01:19 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by dogfighter View Post
So what are some viable options for personal protection?
Sounds like you already know the answer (carry a firearm, and only use it when truly at risk).

I would not want to be friends with a person who reacts with violence at the drop of a hat ("Bring it on, bitch!"). But I might befriend a man who has the ability and knowledge to kill, the will to do so if necessary, and the intelligence and self-control to temper his emotions, ego, and tongue.

Along those lines...

The Truth about Violence : 3 Principles of Self-Defense : Sam Harris
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Old 02-29-2012, 01:20 PM   #7
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Old 02-29-2012, 01:21 PM   #8
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Krav Maga is realistic for street fighting situations, and you can become "proficient" in a few months. At least, enough so that you would know how to apply non-lethal force for a lot of different situations, and get used to knowing how to throw a punch/elbow/kick.

I think that's the best way to really learn self defense unless you plan to carry a weapon with you at all times.
Is that something you study? My only exposure to it was what I saw on some TV show and I think they were too obsessed with showing that a woman can be tough to actually represent Krav Maga appropriately. Always been curious about it though and I wrecked my MCL in college so BJJ is out anyway. I box, but again, that's going to count against me if I end up in court and even moreso if some HIV petri dish spits blood in my face.
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Old 02-29-2012, 01:23 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by JakeStratham View Post
Sounds like you already know the answer (carry a firearm, and only use it when truly at risk).

I would not want to be friends with a person who reacts with violence at the drop of a hat ("Bring it on, bitch!"). But I might befriend a man who has the ability and knowledge to kill, the will to do so if necessary, and the intelligence and self-control to temper his emotions, ego, and tongue.

Along those lines...

The Truth about Violence : 3 Principles of Self-Defense : Sam Harris
"Self-defense is not about winning fights with aggressive men who probably have less to lose than you do."

excellent. +rep
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Old 02-29-2012, 01:32 PM   #10
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So carry a firearm. Pull it out, if he bails, your self defense situation has been taken care of. If he launches an attack, you just blast him. When the police arrives, you say that you were in fear for your life and wont discuss the situation further.

You dont want a firearm. Thing is, any other kind of weapon is easily just as deadly. Knife someone in the torso, tell me about the chances you dont hit a major organ. Slim. You crack his skull open with a blunt weapon. Just as dead as shooting him.

Krav Maga is not a "martial art" in the traditional sense. Its self defense technique that may or may not be good. Disarming some hobo might not be hard. Do you trust yourself to do that when someone pulls a knife on you? What if hes more skilled than you thought? Do you really want to fight someone hand to hand whos aids you tried to avoid just seconds ago?

Get a firearm if youre allowed to carry one. Just dont talk to the police should you be stupid enough to actually use it.
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Old 02-29-2012, 01:33 PM   #11
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Quote:
So carry a firearm.
Quote:
You dont want a firearm.
Quote:
Get a firearm if youre allowed to carry one.
Quote:
If he launches an attack, you just blast him.
Quote:
should you be stupid enough to actually use it.
Quote:
When the police arrives, you say that you were in fear for your life
Quote:
Just dont talk to the police

Wow, that was HORRIBLE advice.
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Old 02-29-2012, 01:41 PM   #12
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So carry a firearm. Pull it out, if he bails, your self defense situation has been taken care of. If he launches an attack, you just blast him. When the police arrives, you say that you were in fear for your life and wont discuss the situation further.

You dont want a firearm. Thing is, any other kind of weapon is easily just as deadly. Knife someone in the torso, tell me about the chances you dont hit a major organ. Slim. You crack his skull open with a blunt weapon. Just as dead as shooting him.

Krav Maga is not a "martial art" in the traditional sense. Its self defense technique that may or may not be good. Disarming some hobo might not be hard. Do you trust yourself to do that when someone pulls a knife on you? What if hes more skilled than you thought? Do you really want to fight someone hand to hand whos aids you tried to avoid just seconds ago?

Get a firearm if youre allowed to carry one. Just dont talk to the police should you be stupid enough to actually use it.
Please read this: The Truth about Violence : 3 Principles of Self-Defense : Sam Harris
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Old 02-29-2012, 01:54 PM   #13
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i would have peeled his cap
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Old 02-29-2012, 01:59 PM   #14
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Make more money (to afford to never go on the bus), avoid poor people, buy a gun.

Former Krav Maga practitioner here (now I just do BJJ/Muay Thai).

When I think about conflict I have one train of thought.

1. Neutralize and escape all threats as soon as possible.
[EDIT: the preferred thing is to escape without conflict whenever possible]
2. If escape isn't possible then be prepared to take a life.

I only see myself having to shoot someone if they're in my home or I'm at gunpoint/knifepoint.

Self defense is less about defense as it is about awareness. The only people who actually FIGHT in the street are idiots.
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Old 02-29-2012, 02:01 PM   #15
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I ride the bus
yeah stop this
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Old 02-29-2012, 02:10 PM   #16
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LOL hey I prefer the bus I have a car but I enjoy riding the bus a lot more than I enjoy driving and it actually saves me a shitload of time-in-transit because of the bus only lanes. Besides, 80% of my commuting is done outside of downtown, which is the only place there is a "ride free area". That's where you get the hobos and other assorted degenerates. Had like two stabbings and a shooting at my downtown bus stop last year but the cops here are fucking useless.
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Old 02-29-2012, 02:13 PM   #17
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LOL hey I prefer the bus I have a car but I enjoy riding the bus a lot more than I enjoy driving and it actually saves me a shitload of time-in-transit because of the bus only lanes. Besides, 80% of my commuting is done outside of downtown, which is the only place there is a "ride free area". That's where you get the hobos and other assorted degenerates. Had like two stabbings and a shooting at my downtown bus stop last year but the cops here are fucking useless.
Enjoys taking the bus
Has a nine to five job
Lives in New Jersey (and it's probably not Morris or Somerset County)

Serious question: How are you a member of a forum like this and still so complacent?
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Is this how your generation spend your time? Seriously, we need a proper fucking war or something to give you some purpose.
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Old 02-29-2012, 02:18 PM   #18
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Enjoys taking the bus
Has a nine to five job
Lives in New Jersey (and it's probably not Morris or Somerset County)

Serious question: How are you a member of a forum like this and still so complacent?
Essex county, and I actually recently moved to Seattle which is where this harrowing tale takes place. And fuck Morris/Somerset.

And I'm not complacent, I've just had it enough ways (affiliate, small business owner, freelancer, employee, unemployed, loaded, busted, etc) to have figured out what I like best, and I'm fortunate enough to be doing it now Even down to the bus thing... I know it won't make sense to a lot of people but my entire day goes SO much better when I don't have to drive. I've been known to just ride it with no destination just for fun. I live very modestly because I just prefer it that way. For all the money I've spent on cars and clothes and consumer electronics, I'm MUCH happier living with less and just banking or investing the money. Spending money is fun, but you know what's even better? Not feeling like you need to.

edit: thanks for the reminder that I need to update my location too.
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I was a young man when I fought dogs in Mexico. There were many dog fighters but none as great in size or as quiet. Then I was unsure of my words. But the fighting was always a language I spoke well.
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Last edited by dogfighter; 02-29-2012 at 02:35 PM..
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Old 02-29-2012, 02:24 PM   #19
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Essex county, and I actually recently moved to Seattle which is where this harrowing tale takes place. And fuck Morris/Somerset.

And I'm not complacent, I've just had it enough ways (affiliate, small business owner, freelancer, employee, etc) to have figured out what I like best and I'm fortunate enough to be doing it now
Good for you then.

I don't think you can carry a firearm on the bus though. If you like the bus you'll just have to deal with it. Two rolls of quarters in pantyhose can go a long way as a concealable, legal blunt force weapon. Seriously.
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Old 02-29-2012, 02:25 PM   #20
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Wow, that was HORRIBLE advice.
Care to explain why "carry a firearm, and only use it when truly at risk" is horrible advice?

If your life is at risk, you would rather be without a firearm than with one?

I must be missing something. lol
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Old 02-29-2012, 02:29 PM   #21
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Good for you then.

I don't think you can carry a firearm on the bus though. If you like the bus you'll just have to deal with it. Two rolls of quarters in pantyhose can go a long way as a concealable, legal blunt force weapon. Seriously.
Good cuz I usually wear 2 pair in the colder months
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Old 02-29-2012, 02:36 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ryanjm View Post
Krav Maga is realistic for street fighting situations, and you can become "proficient" in a few months. At least, enough so that you would know how to apply non-lethal force for a lot of different situations, and get used to knowing how to throw a punch/elbow/kick.

I think that's the best way to really learn self defense unless you plan to carry a weapon with you at all times.
Let me save you the time, money, misplaced sense of security and potential hospital bills:

Eyes, Nose, Throat, Balls

You hit one of these and you run like hell.

The best training for self defense is the 200m sprint
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Old 02-29-2012, 02:37 PM   #23
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If you're carrying a purse: Udap Bear Spray, 12Vhp, 7.9 Oz., Holster

Seriously.
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Old 02-29-2012, 02:57 PM   #24
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The best self defense is moving to Canada.

Once there you can free your mind of having to fight two bit thugs, and enjoy crepes with some sweet ass maple syrup.
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Old 02-29-2012, 03:01 PM   #25
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Once there you can free your mind of having to fight two bit thugs, and enjoy crepes with some sweet ass maple syrup.
And poutine! Don't forget poutine!
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Old 02-29-2012, 03:05 PM   #26
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Old 02-29-2012, 03:12 PM   #27
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spitting in someone's face is assault, you can defend yourself.
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Old 02-29-2012, 03:21 PM   #28
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spitting in someone's face is assault, you can defend yourself.
The question isn't whether you can; it's whether you should. If you have assets, a family, a successful business, etc., you'll probably (hopefully) think twice about responding with force.

Personally, if someone spits in my face, hits me in the chest, or pushes me, it's not a big thing, even if I'm carrying. I won't even show them the firearm. If that person demands my wallet, fine. They can take it. No big deal. My life is not at immediate risk.
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Old 02-29-2012, 03:22 PM   #29
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It doesn't matter how tough you are, if some crazy shithead is spitting at you, GTFO.

Dead serious, bros.

Better to duck out than deal with street scum.

Ask yourself a question: If you wouldn't shake this person's hand then why would you willingly engage in a fight where there is MUCH MORE physical contact?

If an exit exists, take it, period.
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Old 02-29-2012, 03:23 PM   #30
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My response would be to move to an area/county/state/country where that shit didn't happen.

Even if I went and did Krav Maga lessons, what about when my wife is out by herself, or my kid? Do they have to take them too?

Carrying weapons is only a viable strategy if you are prepared to use them to their fullest extent. Are you really prepared to kill someone for spitting at you? I'd hope not. The other downside of weapons is that there's the chance they'll be taken off you and used on you.

That said, if I was stuck living in a shitty area, and had problems with idiots hassling me, I'd get a couple of Rottweilers or German Shepherds. Treated & bred well, they're good pets, and your family can benefit from the protection too. Two, because even if someone has a gun, they won't get both of them.
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Old 02-29-2012, 03:24 PM   #31
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Krav Maga is a realistic, non-weapon and no bullshit way of defending yourself.

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Old 02-29-2012, 03:38 PM   #32
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I always carry my visiting card that has GoogleHammer.com as my website. If a guy fuck with me I just apologize, give him my card and leave him. I automatically win the fight when he checks the website.

In all seriousness - I would avoid the fight and move away. Fight with a stranger is not a worth game at all as we have an awesome life other than that 1-5 minute scene with a stranger who spends half of his time in jails
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Old 02-29-2012, 03:53 PM   #33
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Fight with a stranger is not a worth game at all as we have an awesome life other than that 1-5 minute scene with a stranger who spends half of his time in jails
And sometimes, even if you win, you lose...

Death of 10-year-old involved in school fight declared a homicide - CNN.com
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Old 02-29-2012, 04:07 PM   #34
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get a gun, you may live in an open carry state. nobody spits on the guy with a visible holstered 9mm
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Old 02-29-2012, 04:30 PM   #35
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Krav Maga is a realistic, non-weapon and no bullshit way of defending yourself.

The Best Krav Maga practitioner in the World - YouTube
realistic?
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Old 02-29-2012, 04:39 PM   #36
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lol last thing im gonna do is ask a bunch of pussies behind the computer what to do IRL LOL
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Old 02-29-2012, 04:44 PM   #37
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LOL MURRIKANS- OMG BLAST HIM WITH UR GUN YO UNLOAD UR CLIP...

Fucking pussy's need to learn how to ignore/avoid the degenerates of society and if shit escalates, catch them with a big left hook they'll feel for weeks.
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Old 02-29-2012, 04:46 PM   #38
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Carry a bow and arrow.

Run away take aim.

Win
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Old 02-29-2012, 04:55 PM   #39
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This thread makes this video a necessity. Fast forward through the first 25 seconds, it's just plot setup, but make sure you watch it all. Trust.
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Old 02-29-2012, 05:14 PM   #40
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OP Sounds like you did the right thing to me.
First rule of self defence is dont be where there is trouble
Second rule is get the fuck out if rule 1 gone wrong.

Another vote for Krav Maga as the quickest way for creating the space to escape promptly. My eastern europan KM instructor's favourite phrase seemed to be "When i go to pub,I always look ' where is exit?'. Even when I go to old pub I already know, I look 'Where is exit!'"

His ethos was let any assualt to your ego be ignored. Let any threat to your physical wellbeing be neutralised. And get the fuck out.

Having given a ringing endoresement of KM I have to confess i'm training in japanese ju jitsu but that's got more to do with the small group of guys I'm doing it with, my trust in the teacher and the convenience of it - 3 things that make it more likely to be a long term factor in my life rather than a short term course like martial arts can end up being for many people who try it.
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Old 02-29-2012, 05:18 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WingAndAPrayer View Post
Let me save you the time, money, misplaced sense of security and potential hospital bills:

Eyes, Nose, Throat, Balls

You hit one of these and you run like hell.

The best training for self defense is the 200m sprint
Agree, and that's a lot of what is taught in Krav. It's not a traditional martial art focused on katas and other fancy bullshit, or MMA/Muay Thai that has rules, Krav is about doing max damage and getting out of a bad situation.

Knowing where weak points are at, and having the muscle memory/training to strike fast and hard are two different things. Just because you know you should strike someone in the throat doesn't mean you will be very effective at doing that if you haven't practiced it, or learned how to defend yourself in a situation where you don't manage to strike first.
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Old 02-29-2012, 05:27 PM   #42
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Yeah, I told my neighbor this morning that he absolutely did the right thing... but since this was so close to my place, it just made me wonder how I would/should respond if that happened to me.

The idea of being a bad-ass and just decking the guy is attractive, but this isn't a movie. The last fight I was in (and hopefully the last I'll ever be in) almost went very badly because the other guy turned out to have a weapon I didn't know about. Very lucky I'm not dead or retarded or in a wheelchair right now.
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I was a young man when I fought dogs in Mexico. There were many dog fighters but none as great in size or as quiet. Then I was unsure of my words. But the fighting was always a language I spoke well.
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Old 02-29-2012, 05:29 PM   #43
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This is a concealed carry state, but again... shoot someone on a city street for spitting on you and see what happens.
I've only had my life threatened once during my lifetime and the entire altercation was ended in less than 3 seconds by merely showing the assailant my weapon. I didn't even have to remove it from the holster.
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Old 02-29-2012, 05:57 PM   #44
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Can you imagine if he'd had his girlfriend with him when this happened? THAT'S the really scary part. From what he told me, this guy was doing everything he could do get a fight, even after he followed my neighbor into Wendys. He apparently chose another patron and tried to start some shit with him next. If he'd had his gf with him, I'm sure the guy would have tried to do something to her in order to get a rise out of him. And by eyeballs, my neighbor is about 6'2, maybe 230lbs so he'd do some fucking damage.
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Old 02-29-2012, 06:07 PM   #45
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get a gun, you may live in an open carry state. nobody spits on the guy with a visible holstered 9mm

Stupid comment, you don't show your holster. You don't pull your piece unless you are going to use it. You don't let anyone know you have it until the bullet is flying. This isn't some geek physics online pissing contest where you can show how cool you are, this is real life and people die because they showed their piece, making the other person feel threatened and giving the other person time to shoot first.

OP has 2 choices:
Move to a better neighborhood
or
Stop using public transportation where all the losers are

Do carry a weapon + mace or a retractable steel baton. Don't use it in such a situation. Run away. You have something to lose, he doesn't. It is just that simple. Only pull out either weapon if in danger and pull out your weapon based on the level of threat. I personally prefer the steel baton. I always keep such a thing in my car just in case. The example regarding the GF is perfect. I wouldn't shoot someone over that, but if he got physical with my girl, out comes the steel baton and swift blow to the head.

Don't listen to repressed internet geeks who watch a lot of TV.
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Old 02-29-2012, 06:28 PM   #46
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get a gun, you may live in an open carry state. nobody spits on the guy with a visible holstered 9mm
Yeah, I'm heading out for a night on the town with my wife and I'll just open carry my glock all over the place. Now that's realistic and practical ...
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Old 02-29-2012, 06:50 PM   #47
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Stupid comment, you don't show your holster. You don't pull your piece unless you are going to use it. You don't let anyone know you have it until the bullet is flying. This isn't some geek physics online pissing contest where you can show how cool you are, this is real life and people die because they showed their piece, making the other person feel threatened and giving the other person time to shoot first.

OP has 2 choices:
Move to a better neighborhood
or
Stop using public transportation where all the losers are

Do carry a weapon + mace or a retractable steel baton. Don't use it in such a situation. Run away. You have something to lose, he doesn't. It is just that simple. Only pull out either weapon if in danger and pull out your weapon based on the level of threat. I personally prefer the steel baton. I always keep such a thing in my car just in case. The example regarding the GF is perfect. I wouldn't shoot someone over that, but if he got physical with my girl, out comes the steel baton and swift blow to the head.

Don't listen to repressed internet geeks who watch a lot of TV.
OK to clarify again, this did NOT happen on a bus... that's just where the conversation took place this morning. Also, I live in one of the nicest areas of Seattle. You're going to have to deal with a certain amount of this in ANY big city.

And excellent point about not showing the gun. Even telling someone you have a gun on your person is enough to get you arrested and potentially charged. Never pull it if you're not going to squeeze, and never point it at anything you're not willing to destroy.

Regarding the baton, a good idea but you still run the risk of having it taken from you and you also have to get close enough to use it.

Pepper spray is for the battered women's shelter, but seems to be a great way to give yourself a chance to run.
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Old 02-29-2012, 07:15 PM   #48
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BTW, DID ANYONE LOOK AT OP'S USERNAME?
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Old 02-29-2012, 07:23 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greenleaves View Post
Do carry a weapon + mace or a retractable steel baton. Don't use it in such a situation. Run away. You have something to lose, he doesn't. It is just that simple. Only pull out either weapon if in danger and pull out your weapon based on the level of threat. I personally prefer the steel baton. I always keep such a thing in my car just in case. The example regarding the GF is perfect. I wouldn't shoot someone over that, but if he got physical with my girl, out comes the steel baton and swift blow to the head.
this. was going to recommend a retractable baton.
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Old 02-29-2012, 07:41 PM   #50
HKSEO Rotzee
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I'm a Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu assistant instructor and have a MMA Team as well here at Gracie Barra....it is great self defense....but I would get a concealed handgun license as a first defense.
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