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Old 03-15-2012, 04:15 PM   #1
Unarmed Gunman
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Mustread If you're not already using a VPN you might want to start

Quote:
If you download potentially copyrighted software, videos or music, your Internet service provider (ISP) has been watching, and they’re coming for you.

Specifically, they’re coming for you on Thursday, July 12.
That’s the date when the nation’s largest ISPs will all voluntarily implement a new anti-piracy plan that will engage network operators in the largest digital spying scheme in history, and see some users’ bandwidth completely cut off until they sign an agreement saying they will not download copyrighted materials.


Word of the start date has been largely kept secret since ISPs announced their plans last June. The deal was brokered by the Recording Industry Association of America (RIAA) and the Motion Picture Association of America (MPAA), and coordinated by the Obama Administration. The same groups have weighed in heavily on controversial Internet policies around the world with similar facilitation by the Obama’s Administration’s State Department.

Read the rest here: American ISPs to launch massive copyright spying scheme on July 12 | The Raw Story
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Old 03-15-2012, 04:24 PM   #2
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Am so fucking mad right now you have no idea. Please Americans do something. Get angry and do something, because this is pure bullshit.
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Old 03-15-2012, 04:31 PM   #3
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"...largest digital spying scheme in history..."

"...coordinated by the Obama Administration..."


I stay far away from political discussions but this is ri-fucking-diculous.

As if that fucktarded asswipe and his administration didn't have enough on their plates starting new wars, "policing" the world, and shoving the Federal government even further down our throats, they actively facilitate corporate spying on an unprecedented level.

Anyone that voted for that piece of shit in 08, FUCK YOU.

Anyone planning to vote for that piece of shit this year, I'll fight you in the fucking street.
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Old 03-15-2012, 04:41 PM   #4
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Anyone that voted for that piece of shit in 08, FUCK YOU.

Anyone planning to vote for that piece of shit this year, I'll fight you in the fucking street.
inb4 Turbolapp defends her vote this year and in 2008
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Old 03-15-2012, 04:47 PM   #5
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lolmerica
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Old 03-15-2012, 04:50 PM   #6
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They can utilize multiple warnings, restrict access to only certain major websites like Google, Facebook or a list of the top 200 sites going,
This explains why my cable company has been pushing the new "interactive" DOCSIS 3.0 modems on all of their customers the last 8 months
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Old 03-15-2012, 05:04 PM   #7
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inb4 Turbolapp defends her vote this year and in 2008

White guilt is a hell of an emotion.
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Old 03-15-2012, 05:07 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Beach Affiliate View Post
"...largest digital spying scheme in history..."

"...coordinated by the Obama Administration..."


I stay far away from political discussions but this is ri-fucking-diculous.

As if that fucktarded asswipe and his administration didn't have enough on their plates starting new wars, "policing" the world, and shoving the Federal government even further down our throats, they actively facilitate corporate spying on an unprecedented level.

Anyone that voted for that piece of shit in 08, FUCK YOU.

Anyone planning to vote for that piece of shit this year, I'll fight you in the fucking street.
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Old 03-15-2012, 05:14 PM   #9
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Fukk yeh, nigga. U betta rekonize.
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Old 03-15-2012, 05:18 PM   #10
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There's already been reports about people being fined by their ISP for downloading torrents.

That's a business model I need to get into. 350 million person market, and charging everyone who downloads a torrent $300. Fuck yeah!
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Old 03-15-2012, 05:19 PM   #11
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Tor ftw?
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Old 03-15-2012, 05:24 PM   #12
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this whole thing is just getting to be so annoying, and looks like there is nothing in the way of those big companies to stop them from doing whatever they want. just need to read books i guess.
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Old 03-15-2012, 05:27 PM   #13
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Tha Fuck do you think a VPN can do to get around this?

This shit examines EVERY PACKET that goes across the ISP's equipment at all... So unless your VPN can bypass your ISP altogether then your FVCKED when you download something that you may or may not know is pirated.

This is the final nail in the coffin of internet freedom. I expect WAR over this shit.
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Old 03-15-2012, 05:29 PM   #14
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I expect WAR over this shit.
No mother fucker, expect more American Idol and the Bachelor.
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Old 03-15-2012, 05:35 PM   #15
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I expect WAR over this shit.
I wish you were right. I expect 3 days of Facebook-driven online petitions that will do nothing followed by a whole lot of apathy.
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Old 03-15-2012, 05:46 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by lukep View Post
Tha Fuck do you think a VPN can do to get around this?

This shit examines EVERY PACKET that goes across the ISP's equipment at all... So unless your VPN can bypass your ISP altogether then your FVCKED when you download something that you may or may not know is pirated.

This is the final nail in the coffin of internet freedom. I expect WAR over this shit.
VPN traffic is encrypted so deep packet inspection does not work.
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Old 03-15-2012, 05:47 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by lukep View Post
This shit examines EVERY PACKET that goes across the ISP's equipment
how exactly does one "examine" a packet of encrypted data? i would love to know.

also, an alternative to a VPN would be routing your shit through an SSH proxy... in africa.
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Old 03-15-2012, 05:54 PM   #18
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VPN traffic is encrypted so deep packet inspection does not work.
Exactly.

OpenVPN, which is a popular open source VPN uses 128 bit encryption. No ISP has the computing resources to decrypt all that shit. It CAN be decrypted but it isn't practical to do it on a large scale.

You would still see a large amount of data being transferred but you wouldn't know what it is they're transferring.

If you want to see your normal browsing at the packet level, download wireshark and toggle on/off your vpn and you'll notice the difference.

I believe they're going after the dumb 'Muricans who barely know how to power on their computer.
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Old 03-15-2012, 05:56 PM   #19
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No mother fucker, expect more American Idol and the Bachelor.

Yes. Very few people have a logical foundation for the positions they hold. They might rail against military involvement in Syria, passage of NDAA, awarding of bailouts, and legalizing pot/gay marriage/etc., but they cannot logically explain their reasons beyond emotion. They lack logical consistency.

One result? Short attention spans.

For example, interest in Kony versus NCAA:





One by one, freedoms are eroded. Sometimes, the erosion occurs with the help of those who want freedom for certain things. For example, a gun owner might rail against federal laws against owning a gun, but fights for a federal law prohibiting cell phone usage while driving.

On and on it goes. Makes it pretty easy for the state. Divide and conquer.
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Old 03-15-2012, 05:56 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by lukep View Post
Tha Fuck do you think a VPN can do to get around this?

This shit examines EVERY PACKET that goes across the ISP's equipment at all... So unless your VPN can bypass your ISP altogether then your FVCKED when you download something that you may or may not know is pirated.

This is the final nail in the coffin of internet freedom. I expect WAR over this shit.
do you even know what a vpn is??
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Old 03-15-2012, 06:06 PM   #21
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hetzner 60 euro dedi yo
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Old 03-15-2012, 06:06 PM   #22
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What you seem to fail to grasp is that the internet does not magically appear on the vpn side it still fetches the data and those ISPs will be bound by the same laws that govern the rest, they'll just have to subpeona them before they find you.
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Old 03-15-2012, 06:07 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by lukep View Post
Tha Fuck do you think a VPN can do to get around this?

This shit examines EVERY PACKET that goes across the ISP's equipment at all... So unless your VPN can bypass your ISP altogether then your FVCKED when you download something that you may or may not know is pirated.

This is the final nail in the coffin of internet freedom. I expect WAR over this shit.
Encryption yo.
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Old 03-15-2012, 06:10 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by kingfish View Post
What you seem to fail to grasp is that the internet does not magically appear on the vpn side it still fetches the data and those ISPs will be bound by the same laws that govern the rest, they'll just have to subpeona them before they find you.
You're really bad at this "internet" thing . A foreign vpn is not bound by the same rules. And even if they were, there is no real way to discern where exactly the traffic is going and what its contents are if you're smart.
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Old 03-15-2012, 06:13 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by MisterSinister View Post
You're really bad at this "internet" thing . A foreign vpn is not bound by the same rules. And even if they were, there is no real way to discern where exactly the traffic is going and what its contents are if you're smart.
Wackedfire is about internet marketing, not being good at internet.
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Old 03-15-2012, 06:28 PM   #26
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American ISPs to launch massive copyright spying scheme on July 12 | The Raw Story

has an awful lot of Adsense blocks on the page...
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Old 03-15-2012, 06:30 PM   #27
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Wackedfire is about internet marketing, not being good at internet.
Internet marketing requires you to be good at teh internet.

Otherwise, fill in cpa lock with own ips, profit like nikka's in paris.
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Old 03-15-2012, 06:30 PM   #28
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You're really bad at this "internet" thing . A foreign vpn is not bound by the same rules. And even if they were, there is no real way to discern where exactly the traffic is going and what its contents are if you're smart.
nosry. most countries are America's buttbuddies, and most ISPs would comply if asked.

How likely is this to happen? About as likely as this entire dumb-shit "largest digital spy-scheme" Obama shat out.

u no smart. lurn offshore moar.
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Old 03-15-2012, 06:33 PM   #29
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Old 03-15-2012, 06:39 PM   #30
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RIAA chief: ISPs to start policing copyright by July 12 | Media Maverick - CNET News
Internet providers to start policing the web July 12 &mdash; RT
Net Neutrality's Death Rattle Starts July 12
RIAA: ISPs to implement anti-piracy measures by July 12 - TechSpot News
U.S. ISPs become 'copyright cops' starting July 12th
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Old 03-15-2012, 06:41 PM   #31
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The more technical skills you need to bypass their restrictions the less viable torrents will become. They're great now because any idiot can load a client and click a magnet link. If this wasn't the case do you really think torrents would be half as good as they are now? It'll still be possible to pirate shit just much more annoying and difficult, which is all they're really after anyway.
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Old 03-15-2012, 06:44 PM   #32
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The more technical skills you need to bypass their restrictions the less viable torrents will become. They're great now because any idiot can load a client and click a magnet link. If this wasn't the case do you really think torrents would be half as good as they are now? It'll still be possible to pirate shit just much more annoying and difficult, which is all they're really after anyway.
idiot, lol
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Old 03-15-2012, 06:44 PM   #33
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I wasn't implying anything, I just want to find out how I can violate AdSense TOS like the big boys.
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Old 03-15-2012, 06:46 PM   #34
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I wasn't implying anything, I just want to find out how I can violate AdSense TOS like the big boys.
Peon TOS is 3 ad blocks. Boss TOS is whatever you negotiate.
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Old 03-15-2012, 06:59 PM   #35
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What you seem to fail to grasp is that the internet does not magically appear on the vpn side it still fetches the data and those ISPs will be bound by the same laws that govern the rest, they'll just have to subpeona them before they find you.
What you fail to realize is that this isn't a law. It's a strong arm tactic coming from Hollywood because they couldn't get the law they wanted passed. It amounts to nothing more than a deal made in a smoker room that has no real legal authority.

In order for the ISP to subpoena you're records from the VPN, the law must get involved. That means one of three things.

1. Your ISP has contacted local/regional/national law enforcement and those authorities have engaged in a criminal investigation. This is unlikely, seeing as it took them more than 2 years to move on MegaUpload after they started the investigation. For even the most blatant "pirates" law enforcement is generally going to laugh your ISP out of the room when they request this, unless they have reason to believe you're into some pedo shit.

2. The same as above, but the copyright holder is the one requesting the investigation as opposed to your ISP. Again, for the most part law enforcement is going to laugh them out of the room. Even though it may not seem like it at times, they do have more pressing matters than making sure you aren't downloading something you failed to purchase.

3. Either your ISP or the copyright holder has initiated a civil suit against you. At this point they can then attempt to subpena these records from your VPN provider. However, your ISP is unlikely to do this for a variety of reasons. The primary reason being the costs involved for them. At that point they're doing nothing but wasting their money by both losing customers and incurring legal costs. If the Hollywood side of things attempts this route, your odds of getting caught are no higher after July 12 than they are now. Additionally, if they flood the court systems with this, eventually copyright laws will be changed in order to relieve the burden these types of civil suits place on the court dockets. The MPAA and RIAA do not want that because any change in the copyright laws to relieve a burden on the system would result in a loosening of copyright restrictions.

Ultimately, the most likely thing to happen in any of these events when it comes to a VPN being involved is your ISP cutting off service. At which point you'd be free to move to another service provider.

If ISPs decided to create a blacklist, like so many tinfoil hat folk think, this would be shut down in short order. Unless denial to internet access were ordered by a legal authority (which would mean them taking your ass to court one way or another), a blacklist would ultimately end in litigation charging the ISPs with one form or another of collusion. Pretty sure that's a mess they aren't going to want to deal with because it would ultimately end in a costly class action suit. It would be nearly impossible for the ISPs to show that each member of the class action suit was guilty of malicious and continued illegal usage of the internet, but it would be rather easy for the class actioners to show they had been discriminated against and blacklisted for unfounded reasons by a group of ISPs acting in collusion to deny service. This would likely be especially easy with a jury trial given the overwhelming opposition of the public to things like SOPA and PIPA.

The Internet isn't dead. It isn't dying. And it's unlikely to be any less "free" than it is right now until (at least in the U.S.) until the government decides to go the route of China and completely ban access to sites at the national level. This shit is just another bump in the road that people will have to travel over. They'll make an example of a few people and then 12 months later no one will give a shit again. Just like with Napster and so many other dog and pony shows.
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Old 03-15-2012, 07:03 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by statelizard View Post
What you fail to realize is that this isn't a law. It's a strong arm tactic coming from Hollywood because they couldn't get the law they wanted passed. It amounts to nothing more than a deal made in a smoker room that has no real legal authority.

In order for the ISP to subpoena you're records from the VPN, the law must get involved. That means one of three things.

1. Your ISP has contacted local/regional/national law enforcement and those authorities have engaged in a criminal investigation. This is unlikely, seeing as it took them more than 2 years to move on MegaUpload after they started the investigation. For even the most blatant "pirates" law enforcement is generally going to laugh your ISP out of the room when they request this, unless they have reason to believe you're into some pedo shit.

2. The same as above, but the copyright holder is the one requesting the investigation as opposed to your ISP. Again, for the most part law enforcement is going to laugh them out of the room. Even though it may not seem like it at times, they do have more pressing matters than making sure you aren't downloading something you failed to purchase.

3. Either your ISP or the copyright holder has initiated a civil suit against you. At this point they can then attempt to subpena these records from your VPN provider. However, your ISP is unlikely to do this for a variety of reasons. The primary reason being the costs involved for them. At that point they're doing nothing but wasting their money by both losing customers and incurring legal costs. If the Hollywood side of things attempts this route, your odds of getting caught are no higher after July 12 than they are now. Additionally, if they flood the court systems with this, eventually copyright laws will be changed in order to relieve the burden these types of civil suits place on the court dockets. The MPAA and RIAA do not want that because any change in the copyright laws to relieve a burden on the system would result in a loosening of copyright restrictions.

Ultimately, the most likely thing to happen in any of these events when it comes to a VPN being involved is your ISP cutting off service. At which point you'd be free to move to another service provider.

If ISPs decided to create a blacklist, like so many tinfoil hat folk think, this would be shut down in short order. Unless denial to internet access were ordered by a legal authority (which would mean them taking your ass to court one way or another), a blacklist would ultimately end in litigation charging the ISPs with one form or another of collusion. Pretty sure that's a mess they aren't going to want to deal with because it would ultimately end in a costly class action suit. It would be nearly impossible for the ISPs to show that each member of the class action suit was guilty of malicious and continued illegal usage of the internet, but it would be rather easy for the class actioners to show they had been discriminated against and blacklisted for unfounded reasons by a group of ISPs acting in collusion to deny service. This would likely be especially easy with a jury trial given the overwhelming opposition of the public to things like SOPA and PIPA.

The Internet isn't dead. It isn't dying. And it's unlikely to be any less "free" than it is right now until (at least in the U.S.) until the government decides to go the route of China and completely ban access to sites at the national level. This shit is just another bump in the road that people will have to travel over. They'll make an example of a few people and then 12 months later no one will give a shit again. Just like with Napster and so many other dog and pony shows.
I owe you a beer. Tired of all these fucking chicken little threads on wf
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Old 03-15-2012, 07:38 PM   #37
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I'm pretty sure this just formalizes what most broadband providers were doing already except it used to be ad-hoc emails like "not for nuthin but seeding something called 'Star Wars Episode 1.mp4' probably illegal brah don't make us pull the plug and stop billing you"
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Old 03-15-2012, 07:39 PM   #38
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Exactly why I stopped stealing shit on the interwebs years ago. Now I just go to Tower Records and shove CD's in my sweatshirt. Much easier and untraceable.
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Old 03-15-2012, 07:41 PM   #39
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Peon TOS is 3 ad blocks. Boss TOS is whatever you negotiate.
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Old 03-15-2012, 08:30 PM   #40
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What's going to happen with all those places with public wifi?
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Old 03-15-2012, 08:56 PM   #41
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usenet?
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Old 03-16-2012, 12:21 AM   #42
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Ultimately, the most likely thing to happen in any of these events when it comes to a VPN being involved is your ISP cutting off service. At which point you'd be free to move to another service provider.
I agree with your initial assesments but you seem to have the bad habit of thinking that the free market is alive and kicking here in the USA.

It is not.

"Free to move to another" ISP means "Settle for a NON-broadband connection" (!) in most of the country. There are very few places where multiple companies have taken the trouble to lay competing high-bandwidth lines over the same area. It's a big investment and apparently the government is only willing to subsidize one company at a time.

Not to mention, if you're using a VPN, your pipe is automatically too small already so broadband is 100% necessary.

SO, the way it is going to play out, regardless of using a VPN or not, is thus:
  1. Joe Innocent gets a warning that he dowloaded some shit the MPAA isn't thrilled about. He's told to stop or switch.

  2. Joe doesn't like his choices, and shops around. He finds out that he'd have to give up a lot of bandwidth to settle elsewhere and could no longer watch netflix or hulu because it would be SRSLY glitchy.

  3. Joe is trapped, being a slave to whatever existing appeal process is offered by his ISP until a day comes that he has a choice.

  4. MPAA & RIAA realize that they don't want all the Joes out there to have a choice, and LOBBY CONGRESS AS MANY TIMES AS IT TAKES to ensure each geographical region stays completely monopolized forever.

  5. Joe becomes a couch potato that watches waaaaaaaaaaay too much american idol because he knows at least that won't get his precious internet connection taken away.
Sheeple gonna sheep. In this day and age, their only alternative is to become some sort of "Outlaw" and find VPNs like those 'terrorists' Anonymous use. (Just wait, they'll be using that word on poor anonymous soon.)

Which reminds me: Anonymous's list of approved VPNs.

You SHOULD be scared. Don't underestimate the opponent here... Need I remind anyone of how much they control the white house?




Edit: LMFAO at the Tag. Good one, Barman!
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Old 03-16-2012, 02:09 AM   #43
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....or instead of shelling out money for a vpn which will likely have shitty speed, you can sub to a decent newsgroup provider with 900+ days binary retention and SSL encryption and get the fuck off torrents all together.

If you can't find your shit on the newsgroups, then most likely no one gives a fuck about what your downloading through a torrent anyways.
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Old 03-16-2012, 02:24 AM   #44
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Bnc shell, vpn but what about when those get compromised?
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Old 03-16-2012, 02:28 AM   #45
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WHAT'S A GOOD VPN BROZ? I'm preparing for the war on July 12th
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Old 03-16-2012, 02:41 AM   #46
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Old 03-16-2012, 02:43 AM   #47
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^ luke - I completely agree with everything you said (except the part about me believing the free market is alive and well)

The part you highlighted was phrased poorly. My primary point throughout the whole thing was that if you use a VPN you aren't going to have to worry about any of this shit.

In order for your ISP to know what you're doing while the VPN is enabled, they would have to get the records from the VPN and then sort through and decrypt the packets. If you're using any service that will willingly hands off your private browsing, sharing or search patterns with an identifier you shouldn't be using them in the first place. But I haven't heard of too many ISPs, let alone VPNs, that will willingly do that unless faced with legal pressure anyway. Furthermore, should your ISP request this information and your VPN complies without your consent or a subpena they're putting themselves in the crosshairs for a lawsuit, specifically if users are using the VPN for business reasons where IP and proprietary business wares are potentially present.

My point wasn't that I'm okay with this, because I'm not. My point was in response to a comment that insinuated this would give the ISPs some kind of legal authority enabling them to get a subpena for the encrypted data transferred while you were using a VPN without anything more than high bandwidth usage or the websites you visit as probable cause. That simply isn't the case, not too many courts are going to even come close to touching the 4th and 14th amendment protections because of high bandwidth use, and if they did, another court would likely overturn the original subpena order and then any evidence obtained from the VPN would be considered "fruit of the poisonous tree" and not allowed to be used against you anyway. And for the reasons I pointed out in my previous post, all of this is unlikely to happen anyway.

Like I said, they'll attempt to make an example out of a few people like they did during the early days of assault on Napster. Then everyone will move on, except this time the public will be in an uproar over the charges existing and how they came about the information used to bring those charges/civil suits in the first place. The web is a vastly different place than it was 10-12 years ago. It is more regulated and a lot of that is probably a good thing. But the public perception about an over intrusive government and an even more intrusive private sector has also changed.

In the end, ISPs will find that complying with this will ultimately be bad for business. People will get fed up and start tethering their phones to the pc and skip going through traditional net providers altogether. Wireless carriers aren't going to cut people off no matter what they're doing because the service plans are the only reason people stay with them and not a less expensive pre-paid or pay as you go option. If their internet gets cut off from the phone, more people will start using pre-paids that include texting, because that's a viable and less expensive alternative because if their internet gets cut off from their mobiles, having a smart phone is pointless.

As soon as enough people, and it wouldn't take all that many in the grand scheme of things, left traditional ISPs and their subscriptions started moving on a downward trend, they'd quit playing ball with Hollywood and start trying to regain their customers. It's not a free market, it's a manipulated one and as soon as the customer base starts manipulating it in the same way the service providers do it will be a balanced market. I think a balanced market is about all we can hope for in the foreseeable future.

Besides, the only people that are going to be caught up in this stuff are going to be "middle class" parents and their kids and old people. They'll get sued, the media and internet will cover it. The public will go apeshit. The ISPs will get all kinds of bad press. And then they'll quietly stop sending red flags to the MPAA and RIAA and no one will even remember this conversation happened in 5 years.
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Old 03-16-2012, 02:50 AM   #48
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Am so fucking mad right now you have no idea. Please Americans do something. Get angry and do something, because this is pure bullshit.
U MAD BRO

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Old 03-16-2012, 02:58 AM   #49
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hetzner 60 euro dedi yo
Dont, they are in germany.

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What you seem to fail to grasp is that the internet does not magically appear on the vpn side it still fetches the data and those ISPs will be bound by the same laws that govern the rest, they'll just have to subpeona them before they find you.
Get a VPN where you can pay anonymous and dont log or get a server in Russia where you can pay anon and setup a VPN Server yourself.
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Old 03-16-2012, 03:24 AM   #50
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I hide behind multiple VPNs so when they Subpoena my VPN provider, they get the Address only of my second VPN who only has the address of the third VPN who has the address of the first VPN.



Also It is not Hollywood and the record companies..
It is clickbank..
Why u all been torrenting ebooks..
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