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Old 07-20-2012, 05:25 AM   #1
MyOwnDemon
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Orly Immortality only 20 years away.

Interesting article I just read.

Scientist Says Immortality Only 20 Years Away - SFGate

Of course, it assumes governments and drug companies won't get involved. Discuss.
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Old 07-20-2012, 05:44 AM   #2
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Only chance of that happening is if we manage to solve the overpopulation crisis (water, food, energy, living in space, etc.).

Otherwise, that cat will never be allowed out of the bag.
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Old 07-20-2012, 05:50 AM   #3
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There is no overpopulation crisis, it's just that the very few own pretty much everything. If you feel so strongly about it, please volunteer to kill yourself. Oh wait.. not your family right? Another family but not yours is causing the perceived problem you read about online you faggot.
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Old 07-20-2012, 05:52 AM   #4
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Fuck I hope I live that long.
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Old 07-20-2012, 05:56 AM   #5
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[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42aUCl_YPso]1957 Vision of the Year 2000 - YouTube[/ame]
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Old 07-20-2012, 06:09 AM   #6
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There is no overpopulation crisis, it's just that the very few own pretty much everything. If you feel so strongly about it, please volunteer to kill yourself. Oh wait.. not your family right? Another family but not yours is causing the perceived problem you read about online you faggot.
Really? Everywhere in the world has an abundance of fresh water? Nobody is dieing of diseases due to the fact they don't have access to fresh water and sanitation?
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Old 07-20-2012, 06:12 AM   #7
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The overpopulation has been a manufactured crisis. People are being forced into urban areas for economic reasons. Such a high concentration of people in select areas helps to sell the overpopulation myth.

Add to this the fact that a lot of people have lost the ability function without technology, and you have people willing to live in their own shit before they would go live off the land.
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Old 07-20-2012, 06:23 AM   #8
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Really? Everywhere in the world has an abundance of fresh water? Nobody is dieing of diseases due to the fact they don't have access to fresh water and sanitation?
everywhere in the world does not have an abundance of fresh water, but thats the problem of those regions. millions of africans dying says nothing about the state of overpopulation halfway around the globe.
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Old 07-20-2012, 06:41 AM   #9
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everywhere in the world does not have an abundance of fresh water, but thats the problem of those regions. millions of africans dying says nothing about the state of overpopulation halfway around the globe.
Really? The West isn't having any issues with fresh water supply?

Las Vegas Tries to Prevent a Water Shortage - Popular Mechanics

Or for example, haven't you ever been told by your municipality that the water level is low, so only even numbered houses can water their lawns on Mon and Wed, and odd numbered houses on Tues and Thurs?

What do you think will happen if no action is taken? Problem will get better or worse?
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Old 07-20-2012, 06:45 AM   #10
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It's great because we have infrared cooking and magnetic induction stoves now.
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Old 07-20-2012, 06:51 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Kiopa_Matt View Post
Really? The West isn't having any issues with fresh water supply?

Las Vegas Tries to Prevent a Water Shortage - Popular Mechanics

Or for example, haven't you ever been told by your municipality that the water level is low, so only even numbered houses can water their lawns on Mon and Wed, and odd numbered houses on Tues and Thurs?

What do you think will happen if no action is taken? Problem will get better or worse?
The valid points you raise dont oppose mine in any way. Two different issues.

Las vegas is a city built right in the middle of the desert. A monument to our decadence. Dont you think its ridiculous that it lasted that long? Still, the remaining country could absorb the las vegas population easily without getting into fresh water problems.

no, i have never been told by my municipality that theres a water shortage. i dont really know what a municipality even is.

the problems will get worse for those regions that consume more water than their surroundings can provide. this is a regional problem and has nothing to do with "the US being overpopulated". if water ever became a serious problem, some company would have a saltwater purification device ready within a month. these arent hard to build. the problem is that theyre cost ineffective which will change rapidly during a water shortage.
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Old 07-20-2012, 06:55 AM   #12
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immortailty for everyone who goes to live on mars
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Old 07-20-2012, 08:34 AM   #13
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Fucking hell, I thought I'd jumped back in time then. That Sun interview was posted in 2009. I'm a big fan of Kurzweil, but to halt and reverse the ageing process plus mastering Nanotechnology in 17 years is pretty ambitious.
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Old 07-20-2012, 08:35 AM   #14
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These projections are always wrong. Scientists in the 50's said we'd have nuclear fusion by 2000. We might know how to do it within 20 years, but we won't be doing it.
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Old 07-20-2012, 08:45 AM   #15
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These projections are always wrong. Scientists in the 50's said we'd have nuclear fusion by 2000. We might know how to do it within 20 years, but we won't be doing it.
we had fusion by 2000. in the same manner, we will have age reversing substances and nanotechnology in 1 or 2 labs by 2030.
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Old 07-20-2012, 08:54 AM   #16
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Immortality is already available. As long as you take 3 capsules a day you will live forever. It reverses signs of aging as well. All for less than $5 a day. Let me go find the links
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Old 07-20-2012, 09:19 AM   #17
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In the article - he makes an assumption, but doesn't back it up with specific scientific theories that can be applied, tested, and researched.

So just because he thinks there is a possibility that type of technology will be available is nothing more than a personal opinion based on totally non-relative facts like the worlds advancement with computers.

Fact is, most religions believe you can "spiritually" over take your body. Science believes you can re-engineer.

Science deals with after facts. I mean we have a sun, so we use mass and motion to define other things like time. The sun circulates 365 days around the earth. The sun is a fixed parameter when defining years, months, hours, days, the weather, harvest, etc.

But science doesn't have an answer for where the sun came from, or why it is perfectly positioned around the earth and other stars. Nothing up there is random. In fact, if the sun was to close to this earth, we'd all burn to hell, and if it was to far, we'd freeze.

The fact that we our born into bodies that have every organ on the exception of teeth (so that we don't bite our mothers nipples off) is even more profound proof of an overall creator. But then Im not here to suggest religion, rather just to say that science is nothing other than the study of elements that we can measure.

Things before this worlds existence like perhaps the Sun, moon and stars and of course our gene code is great to study - but I doubt it can be conquered. Unless God himself shows up - on this earth it would lead to Hitlers with "supreme society".

You have countries, governments and kings who require "power" and "your taxes" to ensure that this world never unites under a solid one race - let alone conquer immortality. But seriously, imagine you - the simple person - being immortal to the king, government, or country your from. Immortal suggests you the laws of this world relative to death don't apply, so obviously there is no "fear" factor.

Trust me, that isn't going to happen soon - at least not for the peasants of this world. Btw - loved Justin Timberlakes movie on the subject. Didn't get at first how he was dancing with "mom" who looked his own age - but if you can get passed that, it's a great flick.
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Old 07-20-2012, 09:22 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by wayn3 View Post
we had fusion by 2000. in the same manner, we will have age reversing substances and nanotechnology in 1 or 2 labs by 2030.
Isn't that basically exactly what I said?

Sure we may have substances and nanotechnology, but there won't be a person out there that has their red blood cells fully replaced, or someone actively getting younger physically or whatever. I.e. people won't be immortal. We may know exactly how we can do it, and have the material available - we just won't yet have everything in place to begin giving it to humans etc.

Much in the same way that we've never generated a useful amount of power from nuclear fusion to date.
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Old 07-20-2012, 09:30 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by mituozo View Post
Isn't that basically exactly what I said?

Sure we may have substances and nanotechnology, but there won't be a person out there that has their red blood cells fully replaced, or someone actively getting younger physically or whatever. I.e. people won't be immortal. We may know exactly how we can do it, and have the material available - we just won't yet have everything in place to begin giving it to humans etc.

Much in the same way that we've never generated a useful amount of power from nuclear fusion to date.
thats because kurzweil is an over-optimistic retard who gets taken advantage of by the medias sensationalism bs. meanwhile switzerland is getting eaten from the inside by synthetic lhc-blackholes to guiles theme playing the background. they make news out of non-news. its their job. luckily, reality aint a hollywood movie.
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Old 07-20-2012, 09:42 AM   #20
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I don't read too much life extension literature (so I apologize in advance if what I'm about to ask sounds/is stupid) but there are some things I don't understand about the commonly talked about concepts and I hope some of the better informed WF members can help.

Papajohn? Cardine?

Here it goes:

In my opinion, there's only ONE viable life extension approach: backups.

Even if there will be major breakthroughs (and I'm sure that will be the case), you can still die in a car accident or get shot... you get the point.

So again, backups are the only solution.

Something like constantly backing up your brain, storing the information on multiple storage mediums and uploading that information to a new "body" or computer whenever necessary.

If you die in a car accident, say goodbye to your old body. The body will be toast but "you" won't die because family members or insurance companies or whoever will upload the backups to a new body or computer.

The same principle would apply if you get shot or die for any other reason.

The main dilemma I have is this:

Let's assume you die and that the backups will be uploaded to FIVE new bodies instead of one.

What would happen?

Would there still be a "you" or would all of the five "individuals" be nothing but clones?

If the answer is that they would be nothing but clones, then it's fairly safe to assume that even if the backups are uploaded to just one body, it would still be a clone and not you.

Therefore, "you" died and the only thing/person that's left behind is an individual with your memories programmed to think like you.
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Old 07-20-2012, 09:45 AM   #21
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The only "foolproof" or "cloneproof" method (again, in theory) would be brain transplants.

So if someone shoots you, doctors/technicians remove your brain and bam: another body or "not a body but the next best thing" + your brain = you

But if your brain is compromised (if you're shot in the head, if you die in an explosion and so on), tough luck.
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Old 07-20-2012, 10:03 AM   #22
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I call bullshit. They haven't even discovered a cure for baldness yet. How the hell are they going to reverse the aging process in 20 years?
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Old 07-20-2012, 10:05 AM   #23
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What would happen?

Would there still be a "you" or would all of the five "individuals" be nothing but clones?
You propose a copy and thats what youre going to get. You will have to deal with not being able to do much if uploaded to a computer. Youll have to learn a new body if uploaded to a new body, which is a major ethics no-go. For a taste of what thats like, read stories about people getting a hand transplant or spinal cord paralysis. At least in the beginning of this technology, youll probably still be more dead than alive after such a transplant.

Assuming that theres no such thing as a spirit that transcends physics to which your brain is somehow connected, how would your copies be able to "know" what they are?


If you had your brain transplanted, it would likely be treated as an object that doesnt belong there by your new body. Probably not cool. Whos going to know whether your brain can even connect to a foreign cns? As far as neurology is concerned, they view the brain as part of the cns, and why wouldnt they? the brain gets input from all kinds of places. what if you get your brain transplanted and it couldnt understand the incoming signals?
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Old 07-20-2012, 10:26 AM   #24
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Kurzweil is indeed an overoptimistic futurist.. like most futurists in fact. Eventually significant life extension will be possible.. but not in any of our lifetimes.
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Old 07-20-2012, 10:28 AM   #25
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I don't read too much life extension literature (so I apologize in advance if what I'm about to ask sounds/is stupid) but there are some things I don't understand about the commonly talked about concepts and I hope some of the better informed WF members can help.

Papajohn? Cardine?

Here it goes:

In my opinion, there's only ONE viable life extension approach: backups.

Even if there will be major breakthroughs (and I'm sure that will be the case), you can still die in a car accident or get shot... you get the point.

So again, backups are the only solution.

Something like constantly backing up your brain, storing the information on multiple storage mediums and uploading that information to a new "body" or computer whenever necessary.

If you die in a car accident, say goodbye to your old body. The body will be toast but "you" won't die because family members or insurance companies or whoever will upload the backups to a new body or computer.

The same principle would apply if you get shot or die for any other reason.

The main dilemma I have is this:

Let's assume you die and that the backups will be uploaded to FIVE new bodies instead of one.

What would happen?

Would there still be a "you" or would all of the five "individuals" be nothing but clones?

If the answer is that they would be nothing but clones, then it's fairly safe to assume that even if the backups are uploaded to just one body, it would still be a clone and not you.

Therefore, "you" died and the only thing/person that's left behind is an individual with your memories programmed to think like you.
Who's to say that your consciousness goes with it though?

Your brain can be copied, but I'm me - I see and interpret the world around me. If there were two of me, I wouldn't be seeing two sets of information, I'd be two different people, so the "original" me would still be dead.

It's a really weird one.

Of course people could still be killed in accidents, but there is the potential to stop people dying from aging/cancer/disease.
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Old 07-20-2012, 10:46 AM   #26
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Old 07-20-2012, 12:53 PM   #27
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There is no overpopulation crisis, it's just that the very few own pretty much everything. If you feel so strongly about it, please volunteer to kill yourself. Oh wait.. not your family right? Another family but not yours is causing the perceived problem you read about online you faggot.
Oh but there is... have you seen prices lately? Look at the population stats for the past few hundred years...
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Old 07-20-2012, 12:58 PM   #28
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Oh but there is... have you seen prices lately? Look at the population stats for the past few hundred years...
I have yet to read one of your posts that wasn't mentally retarded.

Please stop posting. Smart people try to make this forum their home. You are not one of them.
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Old 07-20-2012, 01:27 PM   #29
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Or for example, haven't you ever been told by your municipality that the water level is low, so only even numbered houses can water their lawns on Mon and Wed, and odd numbered houses on Tues and Thurs?
First world problems
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Old 07-20-2012, 02:01 PM   #30
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"Then nanotechnology will let us live for ever. Ultimately, nanobots will replace blood cells and do their work thousands of times more effectively."

Could happen
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Old 07-20-2012, 02:25 PM   #31
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I don't read too much life extension literature (so I apologize in advance if what I'm about to ask sounds/is stupid) but there are some things I don't understand about the commonly talked about concepts and I hope some of the better informed WF members can help.

Papajohn? Cardine?

Here it goes:

In my opinion, there's only ONE viable life extension approach: backups.

Even if there will be major breakthroughs (and I'm sure that will be the case), you can still die in a car accident or get shot... you get the point.

So again, backups are the only solution.

Something like constantly backing up your brain, storing the information on multiple storage mediums and uploading that information to a new "body" or computer whenever necessary.

If you die in a car accident, say goodbye to your old body. The body will be toast but "you" won't die because family members or insurance companies or whoever will upload the backups to a new body or computer.

The same principle would apply if you get shot or die for any other reason.

The main dilemma I have is this:

Let's assume you die and that the backups will be uploaded to FIVE new bodies instead of one.

What would happen?

Would there still be a "you" or would all of the five "individuals" be nothing but clones?

If the answer is that they would be nothing but clones, then it's fairly safe to assume that even if the backups are uploaded to just one body, it would still be a clone and not you.

Therefore, "you" died and the only thing/person that's left behind is an individual with your memories programmed to think like you.
I think true immortality is impossible to achieve.

An indefinite lifespan is definitely possible, but as you said, your "clones" would not be you.

I think the long term safest approach for humans is to spend the vast majority of your time in a virtual reality hidden safely away from any dangers with nanobots inside your body ensuring that you don't die.

There are still risks, like if somebody goes into your bunker and blows it up, but there are a lot of ways to mitigate that risk. In the end though, I don't think there is anything that ensures your permanent survival, because there is always a possibility (even it if is remote) that the set of atoms that define "you" could be reached and harmed.
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Old 07-20-2012, 03:01 PM   #32
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Whats the point of life if you don't die??
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Old 07-20-2012, 03:09 PM   #33
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I'm already immortal.
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Old 07-20-2012, 03:39 PM   #34
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In the end though, I don't think there is anything that ensures your permanent survival, because there is always a possibility (even it if is remote) that the set of atoms that define "you" could be reached and harmed.
Even more interesting to think about is the fact that we don't have the same atoms in us now that we did a year ago.. making it harder for materialists like us to define what exactly it is that we're trying so hard to hold on to.

Nothing in us is permanent. In a way we die every day, shedding old atoms, forgetting old memories and emotions that used to define us. But every day we also change into something that's still alive, gaining new experiences, atoms, etc.. until our final death. Not even our matter is permanent during the time we're alive.

If you say that you want to preserve your consciousness or 'information' like DNA code, then that's really not all of you is it? Most of us would agree that a clone of yourself is not actually you.. so preserving information alone means nothing. Even if your clone had an exact copy of the neurons in your brain you still would not be comforted that you were the clone.. and that you were living on 100% in it.. because it's composed of different matter and it's experiences are separate from yours. And once again, preserving your atoms is impossible if you're body is actually functioning.

Saying that you want to live forever is like saying you want a certain wave in the ocean to last forever.
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Old 07-20-2012, 03:48 PM   #35
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^fool. you don't need to "preserve your atoms" to live forever. I'm still me from 20+ years back but I'm in a different body. Yes we get repaired and replace cells, etc... but our fundamental structure remains the consistent and it is the seat of our consciousness.
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Old 07-20-2012, 03:58 PM   #36
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Whats the point of life if you don't die??
^ i would have to agree , extended life would be awesome, but no one wants to live forever.
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Old 07-20-2012, 03:59 PM   #37
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I want to live forever. Time is relative.
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Old 07-20-2012, 04:01 PM   #38
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^ i would have to agree , extended life would be awesome, but no one wants to live forever.
Why not? If you can stay young and keep experiencing new things etc.. Why wouldn't you want to?

I could achieve shit tons given a millennium to do it.

No one will ever live forever, so far as eventually you'll step out in the road at the wrong time and get mauled by a bus.
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Old 07-20-2012, 04:32 PM   #39
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Time is relative.
Anyone else love how guerilla makes broad, pseudo-intellectual, meaningless statements like this?
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Old 07-20-2012, 04:34 PM   #40
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Anyone else love how guerilla makes broad, pseudo-intellectual, meaningless statements like this?
in this context, its anything but pseudo-intellectual and/or meaningless.
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Old 07-20-2012, 05:01 PM   #41
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Really? The West isn't having any issues with fresh water supply?

Las Vegas Tries to Prevent a Water Shortage - Popular Mechanics
So... you're quoting the inability for people to live in a manufactured entertainment city in the middle of the desert as evidence of the "overpopulation" problem?

Las Vegas exists because of technology, ingenuity and money. If the casinos pulled out or died tomorrow, that city would be a ghost town in short order.
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Old 07-20-2012, 05:06 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by Kiopa_Matt View Post
Really? Everywhere in the world has an abundance of fresh water? Nobody is dieing of diseases due to the fact they don't have access to fresh water and sanitation?
Who is forcing African women to get 5-7 children on average when they know the conditions they live under? Why are we feeding these people so that they can keep on getting 5-7 more children who the land can't provide for? I know this sounds cynical, but the problem is trying to fight nature instead of adapting to it. Birth control is readily available in those regions as well, so why don't they stop popping out babies?
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Old 07-20-2012, 05:20 PM   #43
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Who's to say that your consciousness goes with it though?

Your brain can be copied, but I'm me - I see and interpret the world around me. If there were two of me, I wouldn't be seeing two sets of information, I'd be two different people, so the "original" me would still be dead.

It's a really weird one.

Of course people could still be killed in accidents, but there is the potential to stop people dying from aging/cancer/disease.
They'd both be you. Just because you can't understand it, doesn't mean it won't be you. If memories and 'programming' is preserved you'd still be you but the other copy would also be you. You would feel like you, but the copy would also feel like you. It would be quite strange to meet yourself, but it wouldn't change the fact you wouldn't 'die' as such, but now there would be two of you. Then as you lived on, the two of you would become different through different experience and that would be even weirder.

That is of course, unless you believe that there is some kind of immortal soul which can't be replaced. But where is the proof of the soul?

However, cloned animals tend to not live for very long and die of strange causes.
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Old 07-20-2012, 05:22 PM   #44
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But where is the proof of the soul?
wheres the proof that theres no soul?
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Old 07-20-2012, 05:30 PM   #45
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wheres the proof that theres no soul?
First there needs to be a definition of what a soul is.
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Old 07-20-2012, 05:32 PM   #46
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the problems will get worse for those regions that consume more water than their surroundings can provide. this is a regional problem and has nothing to do with "the US being overpopulated". if water ever became a serious problem, some company would have a saltwater purification device ready within a month. these arent hard to build. the problem is that theyre cost ineffective which will change rapidly during a water shortage.
Fine, there's no chance of a water shortage happening within our lifetimes on earth. Next, you'll be telling me global warming isn't real.
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Old 07-20-2012, 05:34 PM   #47
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Fine, there's no chance of a water shortage happening within our lifetimes on earth. Next, you'll be telling me global warming isn't real.
It's called 'climate change' now due to no actual warming being reported.
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Old 07-20-2012, 05:38 PM   #48
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Maybe not in 20 years, but what about...let's say 60? Or what if in the next 60 years technology extends the average lifetime to 120 and in 100 years this is possible?

Could it be that anyone relatively young might be living in a time where technology and medicine is growing so rapidly that it allows for an eternal life? Or maybe not....

It still blows my mind that someone 100 years old has seen 2 world wars and, assuming that this person met someone old when they were young, has known someone in the civil war.

Reading the article made me realize how much shit I'm going to see in my lifetime. (being 22 and assuming I don't croak the fuck over from something peculiar)

A good mind fuck was had.
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Old 07-20-2012, 05:44 PM   #49
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It's called 'climate change' now due to no actual warming being reported.
You mean other than the fact we've just been through the warmest decade ever recorded since we started keeping track of weather? Or the frequency and severity of natural disasters has increased?

Sea levels aren't rising? Glaciers aren't disappearing? Cities like Bangkok aren't expected to be under water within 20 years?

I'm hardly some tree hugging hippy here, but it'd be quite the stretch to say the earth is just fine and dandy, and can handle the current population growth without issue. And my original point was, immortality isn't coming out until we learn how to deal with these issues first. Governments around the world aren't going to let their citizens live until their 2300 years old, until there's solutions in place to handle that large of a population (ie. living in space).
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Old 07-20-2012, 05:51 PM   #50
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Two things to contribute to the conversation...

Arent there people in the Bible that were said to have lived hundreds of years? If you believe the Bible then i suppose it makes sense that humans could once again reach that kind of longevity. Although id be curious as to why we've had such a tremendous decline since those times.

Also, if we could be immortal, could you imagine the obscene laziness that would occur? People wouldnt do shit for DECADES.
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