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Old 12-14-2013, 01:04 AM   #1
mGrunin
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Fuck Where are my bitcoins CoinBase? SHAPOW!

Before I get scolded for creating another thread on cryptocurrency, I do have a genuine concern and would love for any experienced member to advice me on my issue.

On last Sunday (8th of Dec), I initiated an ACH transfer for 40 Bitcoins - a total cost of $35,104.11.

On Tuesday (10th of Dec), the funds were successfully taken from my bank account.

My transaction on CoinBase was informing me that my BitCoins will arrive on Friday (today).

I spend the better part of today refreshing the page, waiting for the transaction to finally flip to complete status and see my newly added coins. Sooner or later, it is 11 PM and my coins are still not there!

Thirty minutes later, to add insult to injury, the whole transaction disappears from my account. It is as though I never initiated the transfer to begin with. Obviously my first course of action was to verify whether or not the ACH transfer processed properly, and low and behold, the transfer cleared and my money is sitting in their hands.

I searched the interwebs for others that have been in my shoes when it came to depositing funds and then seeing the transaction disappearing, but I couldn't find a common case. I know that there a devoted following here when it comes to BitCoins, so what I would like to know is if anyone else here had a similar experience.

Is this just a case of being just a bit more patient, or is this a case of lubing up my anus?

For your entertainment, here is a very short SHAPOW video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrQOYn5ckfo

Proof is in the pudding:



This is how my account looks at the moment:

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Old 12-14-2013, 01:18 AM   #2
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Surely they have a support/contact page?
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Old 12-14-2013, 01:21 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by r3p1v View Post
Surely they have a support/contact page?
I sent an email already. On various bitcoin forums, people said they had to wait days to a week for a response.

They have no phone number.
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Old 12-14-2013, 01:22 AM   #4
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I sent an email already. On various bitcoin forums, people said they had to wait days to a week for a response.

They have no phone number.
Blast them on their Twitter and Facebook accounts, that'll get their attention.
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Old 12-14-2013, 01:23 AM   #5
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This has never happened to me, but the most I've ever bought at Coinbase in one day is like 10 coins max. (Just under in fact)

Is this your first purchase with them? Perhaps the first purchase above a single coin?

I'm somehow quite sure that this is 100% FINCEN's fault.

Keep the faith bro...
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Old 12-14-2013, 01:27 AM   #6
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Blast them on their Twitter and Facebook accounts, that'll get their attention.
Good idea, I'll try to reach out to them on Twitter. I can't touch Facebook since I have enough cease and desists from them to fill the walls of the Grand Canyon.

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This has never happened to me, but the most I've ever bought at Coinbase in one day is like 10 coins max. (Just under in fact)

Is this your first purchase with them? Perhaps the first purchase above a single coin?

I'm somehow quite sure that this is 100% FINCEN's fault.

Keep the faith bro...
This is my second ACH transfer with them. My first one was on April 9th. Throughout the past two weeks I have been using their instant feature to get coins right away and it was working perfectly fine. Only thing is that I am limited to only 10 instant BTC per week, while I had to place this order of 40.
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Old 12-14-2013, 01:38 AM   #7
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Good idea, I'll try to reach out to them on Twitter. I can't touch Facebook since I have enough cease and desists from them to fill the walls of the Grand Canyon.
LOL, damn about Facebook.

I've only done the 10 btc at a time transactions with Coinbase, never tried above, this is all still relatively new.

Also LOL @ tags, that craziness isn't me bros, it never was, never will be.
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Old 12-14-2013, 02:18 AM   #8
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They have no phone number.
BITCOIN!
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Old 12-14-2013, 02:28 AM   #9
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Check your email and see if there's anything from them. Some people on bitcointalk have reported Coinbase having a very strict anti-fraud feature that can cancel transactions at the last second - for example, if you usually buy a few coins here and there and then you suddenly buy a boatload (unusual spending patterns), or if you buy too much without having a level 2 account.

If this is what happened then usually they would email to let you know, and they'll wire the money back to you which would take the usual 3-4 business days. I wouldn't worry too much if their customer support takes awhile to respond, they're always backed up on requests and I doubt that will change until bitcoin really comes into the mainstream and they can afford to hire a team of dedicated reps.
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Old 12-14-2013, 02:28 AM   #10
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^

Tell me about it...

Not sure how a company can secure VC funding to the tune of tens of millions of dollars while they have no public phone number available for support.
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Old 12-14-2013, 02:30 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by o hai guyz View Post
Check your email and see if there's anything from them. Some people on bitcointalk have reported Coinbase having a very strict anti-fraud feature that can cancel transactions at the last second - for example, if you usually buy a few coins here and there and then you suddenly buy a boatload (unusual spending patterns), or if you buy too much without having a level 2 account.

If this is what happened then usually they would email to let you know, and they'll wire the money back to you which would take the usual 3-4 business days. I wouldn't worry too much if their customer support takes awhile to respond, they're always backed up on requests and I doubt that will change until bitcoin really comes into the mainstream and they can afford to hire a team of dedicated reps.
I have checked my email, and I have read similar. In my case, I have a fully verified account with them and I have purchased about $14k worth of BitCoins with them in the past. It wasn't in a single transaction, but over three different transactions.

Either way, this is pretty frustrating, especially when the coins are trading at a market price that I would be happy to get in at.
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Old 12-14-2013, 02:34 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mGrunin View Post
^

Tell me about it...

Not sure how a company can secure VC funding to the tune of tens of millions of dollars while they have no public phone number available for support.
VCs place a lot of bets. If BTC continues to take off, they will get paid out. If not, they will take a small loss, and hope another investment pays off.

That's what I was saying the other day about power law. VCs spread their bets around because when one takes off and only one in many do, then the returns are exponential. So they don't risk not betting on everything they can, just in-case one of them is the next Facebook.

Anytime someone says, "Oh that is hot, because Schwartz, Goldfarb and Stein invested in it" I roll my eyes. Investment and hype doesn't validate a business.

Profit does.
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Old 12-14-2013, 02:35 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mGrunin View Post
I have checked my email, and I have read similar. In my case, I have a fully verified account with them and I have purchased about $14k worth of BitCoins with them in the past. It wasn't in a single transaction, but over three different transactions.

Either way, this is pretty frustrating, especially when the coins are trading at a market price that I would be happy to get in at.
Try submitting a request and just let them know you're aware of their fraud controls but are willing to submit extra verification if necessary in order to get the transaction manually pushed through. I've heard of this working in some cases.

IMO in a brand new industry with such quasi-regulation that even the businesses have no idea what's going on, it's smart for them to be "too careful" to ensure the future of their business. Just the price you gotta pay I guess. You could also look into Bitstamp, I signed up there as well and you can deposit USD into the account so it's immediately ready to spend as needed.
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Old 12-14-2013, 02:40 AM   #14
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You know coinbase is just a middleman right?

Took me all of August to get my coins, I use Kraken and Bitstamp now
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Old 12-14-2013, 02:47 AM   #15
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I've seen this before, your order is going to get canceled. The official reason is because it was flagged for fraud but it's likely that you bought on a dip and they would lose too much money to honor their quoted price.

If you really want the coins at that price email them again with all the details about what happened but this time CC the following email addresses:

Code:
licensing@dbo.ca.gov
sharon.robinson@dbo.ca.gov
brenda.kontos@dbo.ca.gov
melissa.morrow@dbo.ca.gov
shelli.costa@dbo.ca.gov
charles.cowell@dbo.ca.gov
Like magic, customer support springs into action. Those emails are for the California department of financial institutions so use that as leverage if they don't honor their price. I know it's a strong arm tactic but sometimes that's what it takes.
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Old 12-14-2013, 02:57 AM   #16
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Your site is hacked -
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Old 12-14-2013, 03:17 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ayzo View Post
I've seen this before, your order is going to get canceled. The official reason is because it was flagged for fraud but it's likely that you bought on a dip and they would lose too much money to honor their quoted price.
That seems to be the consensus on the bitcoin forums but in my experience it's not true. I placed a huge order back when the price was right at 500 and by the time it was filled it was a little under 800 - still had no issues.
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Old 12-14-2013, 04:21 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guerilla View Post
VCs place a lot of bets. If BTC continues to take off, they will get paid out. If not, they will take a small loss, and hope another investment pays off.

That's what I was saying the other day about power law. VCs spread their bets around because when one takes off and only one in many do, then the returns are exponential. So they don't risk not betting on everything they can, just in-case one of them is the next Facebook.

Anytime someone says, "Oh that is hot, because Schwartz, Goldfarb and Stein invested in it" I roll my eyes. Investment and hype doesn't validate a business.

Profit does.
I understand. What I really was getting at was the fact that for a company that is attempting to become a leader in the industry, they are definitely lacking on the support side. Hiring two employees at $10 per hour to answer concerns that are called in should not have a detrimental affect on their bottom line.

I honestly hate how fucking shady everything feels like when it comes to cryptocurrency. So many of the exchanges share very little information about the owners and are located in areas of the world were any legislation would be futile. You can top that off with lackluster interfaces and poor communication.

I have been acquiring Bitcoins from CoinBase, transferring them over to BTC-E, and then exchanging them for LitCoins. Have you seen how shady BTC-E looks like? Once I receive this current order of coins, I plan to do the same, but I can't shake the feeling of one day waking up and being robbed of nearly $50k (before capital gain or loss). There just seems to be so little accountability.

Quote:
Originally Posted by o hai guyz View Post
Try submitting a request and just let them know you're aware of their fraud controls but are willing to submit extra verification if necessary in order to get the transaction manually pushed through. I've heard of this working in some cases.

IMO in a brand new industry with such quasi-regulation that even the businesses have no idea what's going on, it's smart for them to be "too careful" to ensure the future of their business. Just the price you gotta pay I guess. You could also look into Bitstamp, I signed up there as well and you can deposit USD into the account so it's immediately ready to spend as needed.
Sorry, I should have been more clear. I did not have such an email come in. There have been no emails regarding this specific transaction.

I would be livid if they come back to me and tell me they are rejecting my transaction due to security purposes. Keeping my money in limbo for a week is ridiculous.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SLO Ur Roll View Post
You know coinbase is just a middleman right?

Took me all of August to get my coins, I use Kraken and Bitstamp now
Yes, but it is just a matter of convenience for me. Most exchanges require that I send in a wire transfer with specific "credit to" numbers that can only be done by me if I walk into my Bank of America branch. I simply can't do that online. I honestly hate my bank managers and the personnel there, I am tired of listening about their kids and their "great" business ideas.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ayzo View Post
I've seen this before, your order is going to get canceled. The official reason is because it was flagged for fraud but it's likely that you bought on a dip and they would lose too much money to honor their quoted price.

If you really want the coins at that price email them again with all the details about what happened but this time CC the following email addresses:

Code:
licensing@dbo.ca.gov
sharon.robinson@dbo.ca.gov
brenda.kontos@dbo.ca.gov
melissa.morrow@dbo.ca.gov
shelli.costa@dbo.ca.gov
charles.cowell@dbo.ca.gov
Like magic, customer support springs into action. Those emails are for the California department of financial institutions so use that as leverage if they don't honor their price. I know it's a strong arm tactic but sometimes that's what it takes.
Fantastic information. As a matter of fact, the price of a BTC is cheaper right now than when I placed the transaction. I paid around $877 per BTC last Sunday, right now the price is $859 on CoinBase.

Quote:
Originally Posted by soulravager View Post
Your site is hacked -
I am aware of that, and will have it fixed soon enough. Thank you for the care.
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Old 12-14-2013, 04:28 AM   #19
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There are new findings. It seems that the situation isn't as dire as I led myself to believe at first.

When I was clicking around my account, I finally noticed the transaction under my History. The strange thing is that on my Transaction page, it does not show up but everything else does. On the History page it shows up there, but again, every transaction on the History page is also shown on the Transaction page.

This is the current status:



It looks like they cleared the funds on the 11th. Right now it is showing that my BTC are pending on the 13th but as I mentioned before, their transaction page stated they would be released yesterday.

The interesting part here is that they seemed to have locked in the price at $868.91. Which is about $9 cheaper than when I first placed the transaction, but also $7 above the current market price.
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Old 12-14-2013, 04:28 AM   #20
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There just seems to be so little accountability.
This is sort of what I was saying about how the ecosystem and confidence in a currency takes a long time to accrue.

You can't just invent a technology and expect the ecosystem (legal, financial, insurance, trust) to grow up overnight. It takes decades, in some cases generations to emerge. Technological change is fast, social change is very slow.
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Old 12-14-2013, 04:51 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mGrunin View Post
What I really was getting at was the fact that for a company that is attempting to become a leader in the industry, they are definitely lacking on the support side. Hiring two employees at $10 per hour to answer concerns that are called in should not have a detrimental affect on their bottom line.
I hear ya; many have seen worse treatment and even lost their coins over these roadbumps. Good news is actually on the way in this case: Coinbase Raises $25m in Bitcoin's Biggest Ever Funding Deal


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Originally Posted by mGrunin View Post
I honestly hate how fucking shady everything feels like when it comes to cryptocurrency. So many of the exchanges share very little information about the owners and are located in areas of the world were any legislation would be futile. You can top that off with lackluster interfaces and poor communication.
It's likely the #1 thing holding us back right now in fact... That and the fact that the tech is still so new and unfamilliar to people. I think Kryptokit looks much more simple than existing wallets though and won't scare off so many newbs. Dark wallet coming in a month or so should be even better.

But really, the underlying problem here is government, as usual. The Chinese don't have so many restrictions from their federal level and you can see what a difference that makes. Since the Senate hearings last month here went so well I don't see it getting worse for murikans in 2014. Possibly better even... Nothing but good news on the horizon, and of course the software is going to be much more user friendly this year too.


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I have been acquiring Bitcoins from CoinBase, transferring them over to BTC-E, and then exchanging them for LitCoins.
Are you holding any BTC at all? I can understand wanting to play with the lower apparent risk of loss in LTC, but the multipliers can still be bigger in BTC, and so is its' safety.

Altcoins are a new frontier completely; and apparently an unneeded one. With bitcoin there are drivers and historical precidents that you can use as a map to follow, such as the adoption of the two other important network protocols in the last 50 years: http & smtp. Bitcoin, like those two protocols, will simply keep being adopted by more people for decades until it reaches its' full mass... Litecoins? Who needs them? We don't use any other web or email protocols that simply emulate http and smtp, do we? There's no reason whatsoever for altcoins to keep following bitcoin up much more.

The way I see altcoins is just as a spare-parts pool for bitcoin. If anyone comes up with a truly better innovation in cryptocurrency one day, bitcoin will simply assimilate it and keep growing faster than ever.
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Old 12-14-2013, 05:03 AM   #22
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This is sort of what I was saying about how the ecosystem and confidence in a currency takes a long time to accrue.

You can't just invent a technology and expect the ecosystem (legal, financial, insurance, trust) to grow up overnight. It takes decades, in some cases generations to emerge. Technological change is fast, social change is very slow.
Well said. I would love the idea of digital currency to be embraced by retailers and consumers since it would definitely make life simpler. The only question is whether or not BitCoin will be THAT digital currency.

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I hear ya; many have seen worse treatment and even lost their coins over these roadbumps. Good news is actually on the way in this case: Coinbase Raises $25m in Bitcoin's Biggest Ever Funding Deal



It's likely the #1 thing holding us back right now in fact... That and the fact that the tech is still so new and unfamilliar to people. I think Kryptokit looks much more simple than existing wallets though and won't scare off so many newbs. Dark wallet coming in a month or so should be even better.

But really, the underlying problem here is government, as usual. The Chinese don't have so many restrictions from their federal level and you can see what a difference that makes. Since the Senate hearings last month here went so well I don't see it getting worse for murikans in 2014. Possibly better even... Nothing but good news on the horizon, and of course the software is going to be much more user friendly this year too.



Are you holding any BTC at all? I can understand wanting to play with the lower apparent risk of loss in LTC, but the multipliers can still be bigger in BTC, and so is its' safety.

Altcoins are a new frontier completely; and apparently an unneeded one. With bitcoin there are drivers and historical precidents that you can use as a map to follow, such as the adoption of the two other important network protocols in the last 50 years: http & smtp. Bitcoin, like those two protocols, will simply keep being adopted by more people for decades until it reaches its' full mass... Litecoins? Who needs them? We don't use any other web or email protocols that simply emulate http and smtp, do we? There's no reason whatsoever for altcoins to keep following bitcoin up much more.

The way I see altcoins is just as a spare-parts pool for bitcoin. If anyone comes up with a truly better innovation in cryptocurrency one day, bitcoin will simply assimilate it and keep growing faster than ever.
Trust me, I am one of those that completely does not understand why altcoins exist in the first place. Here we have the main cryptocurrency that is slowly making its way into integration while we have a dozen other altcoins out on the market, it makes no sense. At least BitCoins has some use right now in that you can actually use it with some merchants. All the other altcoins have absolutely no actual use for them except speculation - a deadly death sentence.

The only reason I chose LiteCoins is because I heard that MTGOX will be offering LTC quite soon. Considering the MTGOX is currently the dominate exchange, such news I feel would give LTC a boost right off the bat. There was once a rumor that LTC would be traded on MTGOX later that evening, and the coin jumped 10% just on the rumor.

The instance I see LTC not rising as quickly as BTC percentage wise, I'll switch everything over to BTC.
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Old 12-14-2013, 05:10 AM   #23
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Decided to utilize my typical technical analysis into BTC's chart, following exactly the same patterns I would react on if it were a stock.

Right now BTC is dropping below a support level of $919 ( currently at $917) on the 5 min chart. This is a support level we saw a few hours ago as well as a being a resistance earlier in the evening. There is a likelihood of seeing $882 being tested soon enough. Which is a support level that can be found over the past couple days. Too lazy to chart this out right now and throw it up here. Point is, <$919...likely to go down to $882.

Above $950 is a good buy, and it would also break out of the triple top it formed there.

By the way, is there a place were it would be possible to short BTC?
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Old 12-14-2013, 05:16 AM   #24
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By the way, is there a place were it would be possible to short BTC?
yep https://www.bitfinex.com/pages/features
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Old 12-14-2013, 05:55 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by mGrunin View Post

By the way, is there a place were it would be possible to short BTC?
Yes but hasn't it been proven mathematically that due to fees + risk its nearly impossible to make money shorting BTC?

You would need a greater than 50% downswing + a hefty amount of capital invested to make a small gain. I'll dig up the site again but they had something retarded like a $50 per position + additional fees.
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Old 12-14-2013, 08:42 AM   #26
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Coinbase from my exp is a scam. I tried it out and attempted to buy 5 btc. They cleared funds but left the order "pending". I bought at $860 per coin. It sat there for about 3 days then all the sudden when BTC dropped to 670 or so they completed the order. So pretty much they bought the coins for me at a lower price and sold them at a higher price by putting the order on delay.
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Old 12-14-2013, 09:13 AM   #27
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Coinbase from my exp is a scam. I tried it out and attempted to buy 5 btc. They cleared funds but left the order "pending". I bought at $860 per coin. It sat there for about 3 days then all the sudden when BTC dropped to 670 or so they completed the order. So pretty much they bought the coins for me at a lower price and sold them at a higher price by putting the order on delay.
Will, Where are u buying them?
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Old 12-14-2013, 09:38 AM   #28
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Will, Where are u buying them?
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Coinbase
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Old 12-14-2013, 10:05 AM   #29
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Will, Where are u buying them?
I short them. I bought most around $60. I do buy on dips mainly from local btc / craigslist. Originally I was buying from mtgox.
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Old 12-14-2013, 10:52 AM   #30
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Note! We've exceeded our normal buy limits for today. If you would still like to purchase you will receive the market price of bitcoin on Friday Dec 20, 2013 at 09:50AM CST after your funds have arrived. read more
Fuck you coinbase

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Old 12-14-2013, 11:56 AM   #31
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I sent an email already. On various bitcoin forums, people said they had to wait days to a week for a response.

They have no phone number.
maybe if you address the blockchain directly?
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Old 12-14-2013, 12:17 PM   #32
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For shorting you can also try btc.sx

And yeah you're right, most of the exchanges are pretty shady and you're gonna have a hard time getting any type of support from them. Bitstamp support is alright. But that's part of the speculation isn't it? You're betting that once these things become more mainstream and the companies become more and more legitimate and user-friendly that the value will shoot up.
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Old 12-14-2013, 01:39 PM   #33
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And yeah you're right, most of the exchanges are pretty shady and you're gonna have a hard time getting any type of support from them. Bitstamp support is alright. But that's part of the speculation isn't it? You're betting that once these things become more mainstream and the companies become more and more legitimate and user-friendly that the value will shoot up.
From what I understand, Vault of Satoshi is based out of Canadia and has phone and email support. They also have non-anonymous people behind the company. Not sure if they have the same liquidity but they look less shady than some of these other exchanges you guys are throwing your money into.
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Old 12-14-2013, 02:36 PM   #34
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It's just incredible, really incredible, that in this age of connectivity when it costs almost nothing to call another country, that a 'company' to which you bank wire $35,000 will not let you talk to them on the phone. Nor do they respond to your emails.

I agree that *partly* this is because we're in the early adopter speculation period, but WHAT THE FUCK

Very interested to hear how this is resolved for you. Hopefully sooner rather than later.
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Old 12-14-2013, 08:22 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by BigWill View Post
Coinbase from my exp is a sc@m. I tried it out and attempted to buy 5 btc. They cleared funds but left the order "pending". I bought at $860 per coin. It sat there for about 3 days then all the sudden when BTC dropped to 670 or so they completed the order. So pretty much they bought the coins for me at a lower price and sold them at a higher price by putting the order on delay.
True.. but regardless of how much money they made, you still would've paid the same price. Now you may lose money by not having access to trade your btc, but if you're just stacking then it doesn't really matter. You pay whatever the market price is at the time when you decide to buy - regardless of the method of purchase. And it should also be noted that the opposite is true as well.. I purchased at $500 and they delivered my btc when the price of it was literally double. But I was able to lock in the lower price.

In my experience and research, Coinbase is not a sc@m, and I'd like to make that clear for anyone that finds this thread. I think you just pulled the trigger a few days early on that trade is all, bro.

It looks like even mGrunin's issue was maybe just the result of a lack of a refined interface/system.

CB is the main entry point to btc for U.S. citizens and as far as I can tell, and in my experience, they're legit and trustworthy.
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Old 12-14-2013, 08:27 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by mGrunin View Post
Decided to utilize my typical technical analysis into BTC's chart, following exactly the same patterns I would react on if it were a stock.

Right now BTC is dropping below a support level of $919 ( currently at $917) on the 5 min chart. This is a support level we saw a few hours ago as well as a being a resistance earlier in the evening. There is a likelihood of seeing $882 being tested soon enough. Which is a support level that can be found over the past couple days. Too lazy to chart this out right now and throw it up here. Point is, <$919...likely to go down to $882.

Above $950 is a good buy, and it would also break out of the triple top it formed there.

By the way, is there a place were it would be possible to short BTC?

I'm all over this shit.. I could give a fuck less about stocks.. but trading alts/btc with it's youthful volatility is fun as hell and has sparked a new found interest in charting and technical analysis for me.

Would love it if you kept these type of posts coming, or even start a btc/alts trading thread separately.
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Old 12-14-2013, 08:37 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by lukep View Post
I hear ya; many have seen worse treatment and even lost their coins over these roadbumps. Good news is actually on the way in this case: Coinbase Raises $25m in Bitcoin's Biggest Ever Funding Deal



It's likely the #1 thing holding us back right now in fact... That and the fact that the tech is still so new and unfamilliar to people. I think Kryptokit looks much more simple than existing wallets though and won't scare off so many newbs. Dark wallet coming in a month or so should be even better.

But really, the underlying problem here is government, as usual. The Chinese don't have so many restrictions from their federal level and you can see what a difference that makes. Since the Senate hearings last month here went so well I don't see it getting worse for murikans in 2014. Possibly better even... Nothing but good news on the horizon, and of course the software is going to be much more user friendly this year too.



Are you holding any BTC at all? I can understand wanting to play with the lower apparent risk of loss in LTC, but the multipliers can still be bigger in BTC, and so is its' safety.

Altcoins are a new frontier completely; and apparently an unneeded one. With bitcoin there are drivers and historical precidents that you can use as a map to follow, such as the adoption of the two other important network protocols in the last 50 years: http & smtp. Bitcoin, like those two protocols, will simply keep being adopted by more people for decades until it reaches its' full mass... Litecoins? Who needs them? We don't use any other web or email protocols that simply emulate http and smtp, do we? There's no reason whatsoever for altcoins to keep following bitcoin up much more.

The way I see altcoins is just as a spare-parts pool for bitcoin. If anyone comes up with a truly better innovation in cryptocurrency one day, bitcoin will simply assimilate it and keep growing faster than ever.
You seem like a smart guy, and grats on seeing the potential in btc fairly early on.. but I hope you don't mind me saying that your blind, emotional attachment to Bitcoin has the potential to really fuck you if you're not careful.

Altcoins may not be needed but did/do we need the federal reserve? Yet our entire economy is based on it. And no - nobody needs multiple email protocols, but many apparently think they need multiple email clients... multiple browsers, etc..

We probably could've gotten by with just gold, as well.. but we also like the other shiny rocks.

There's also talk about how Litecoin is "just" bitcoin but a couple of years ago and also has an inflated price due to btc..

First of all.. It's a bad thing that ltc is like btc a couple of years ago?

Secondly.. Yes the price of Litecoin is inflated due to speculation, but not near as much as btc is.
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Old 12-14-2013, 09:33 PM   #38
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This is my second ACH transfer with them. My first one was on April 9th. Throughout the past two weeks I have been using their instant feature to get coins right away and it was working perfectly fine. Only thing is that I am limited to only 10 instant BTC per week, while I had to place this order of 40.
I've been using them for awhile and haven't had any issues yet, but it did make be think, especially during the past month where I've used them quite a bit. Each buy order taking 5 days to see the funds and/or bitcoins appear in my acct. Yet it only takes 2 to 3 days to wire transfer funds to, let's say, an exchange like Bitstamp. Can't really see the big advantage with their "connect your bank acct" feature. This feature alone should've turned it into a relatively fluid process of instant buys, sells, and withdrawals. (Or at minimun into to same day transactions). But it ends up being slower than a straight wire transfer.

Having said this, the price lock when ordering is kinda cool. Let's say I order at $800 and the price of bitcoin shoots up to $1000 in 5 days. So far coinbase have honored my transactions, but we do often hear stories of transactions that "failed" or were "flagged" in the bitcoin forums . Since coinbase holds the bag, the financial risks, it could be a motivating factor... But an exchange doesn't need to worry about holding the bag. Profits and losses, buys and sales, all happen between the participants.

Coinbase vs Bitstamp Review - Bitcoin Exchanges - What Is The Difference? | Newfination
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Old 12-14-2013, 10:00 PM   #39
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edit: come to think of it, ACH bank transfers do take 5 days between banks. so maybe there's no real way around it.
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Old 12-15-2013, 01:17 AM   #40
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...but I hope you don't mind me saying that your blind, emotional attachment to Bitcoin has the potential to really fuck you if you're not careful.
You certainly wouldn't be the first... But to called it a "Blind, emotional attachment" shows me that you haven't read many of my posts. The amount of research I've done on the subject would blow your little mind.


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Altcoins may not be needed but did/do we need the federal reserve? Yet our entire economy is based on it.
You're right! Altcoins are just like the fed! -They have all the same powers and incentives, don't they!

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And no - nobody needs multiple email protocols, but many apparently think they need multiple email clients... multiple browsers, etc..
Bitcoin = FTP = HTTP = SMTP <-These are protocols. There can be only one for it to be useful.

KryptoKit = Filezilla = Firefox = Outlook <-These are apps. The more the merrier!


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We probably could've gotten by with just gold, as well.. but we also like the other shiny rocks.
Portable shiny rocks = Protocol, not App.


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Originally Posted by Winston_McFail View Post
First of all.. It's a bad thing that ltc is like btc a couple of years ago?
That's just an illusion. It's not really "like" bitcoin was at any point because bitcoin was born and bred to be money; litecoin is basically a toy that some people haven't figured out is a toy yet. It's kinda sad to watch really.


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Originally Posted by Winston_McFail View Post
Secondly.. Yes the price of Litecoin is inflated due to speculation, but not near as much as btc is.
I couldn't disagree more. Litecoin is in a weird sort of tethered bubble... Destined to crash one day when saner heads prevail.

Meanwhile, Bitcoin has quite a long way to grow towards its' potential.
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Old 12-15-2013, 02:51 AM   #41
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I'm starting to agree with luke that the alts are pretty useless. If you just look at btc-e charts for any time period it's obvious that their price at any point in time is a direct factor of bitcoin's price - bitcoin goes up a few dollars, litecoin goes up a few cents a few minutes later; someone panic sells bitcoin, people panic sell litecoin a few minutes later. For those of you who like to throw around the word "bubble," THIS is something indicative of a bubble and something that's purely speculation.
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Old 12-15-2013, 03:29 AM   #42
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If you want to make an investment in a new and promising AltCoin check out: ProtoShares

They were released early November and went from nothing up to $45 per coin. Right now they are trading at around $20. In the upcoming weeks the company behind it (Invictus Innovation) will go to a few more conferences in China and they will release Keyhotee (basically an ID system for BTC, so you can send money directly to "grunin" instead of your bitcoin address).

And in addition to that, what most people anticipate, is the release of BitShares (early 2014). Which is basically a virtual-asset (BitBTC, BitGold, BitUSD etc.) and not supposed to be used to pay merchants (the same way that Bitcoin is), and most importantly: they pay DIVIDENDS. Read the white paper seriously: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...N_LfoCjNY/edit

And check out this article: BitShares P2P trading platform to offer "dividends on bitcoins".

So if you guys buy Protoshares now, the coin will not only rise to new heights around New Year, but it will also be a 1:1 trade (Protoshares to Bitshares, for every Protoshare, you get 1 Bitshare, so double win).
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Old 12-15-2013, 03:31 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lukep View Post
You certainly wouldn't be the first... But to called it a "Blind, emotional attachment" shows me that you haven't read many of my posts. The amount of research I've done on the subject would blow your little mind.
No he's right. Not only are you blind and emotionally attached; you're also a huge apologist for these shitty miserable situations that people like mGrunin experience. You're blaming FinCEN when all of these exchanges are shady as hell and are seriously dropping the ball on support.

By the way, how's the recovery of your business coming along? Hopefully you've been making good progress there instead of betting the farm on bitcoin.
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Old 12-15-2013, 09:27 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by bluechinagroup View Post
No he's right. Not only are you blind and emotionally attached; you're also a huge apologist for these shitty miserable situations that people like mGrunin experience. You're blaming FinCEN when all of these exchanges are shady as hell and are seriously dropping the ball on support.

By the way, how's the recovery of your business coming along? Hopefully you've been making good progress there instead of betting the farm on bitcoin.
I wouldn't call Lukep an apologist.. I think all he was saying was that Coinbase is legit and they'll come through.. and it appears he was correct.

Also, he's passionate about the cause... the real potential behind Bitcoin is enormous and not even Luke has contemplated all of it's uses... but I bet he has a better grasp on what the future holds than most.

Passion is a good thing and there's a shortage of it - I don't really get why Luke gets so much shit lol.. Yeah okay.. so his adsense model wasn't exactly "bullet proof" or "long term" but for fucks sake.. you guys never sensationalized a headline in sts? Not mention, the guy made some bank off his biz model.. and then presumably used that money to be an early investor in one of the best performing asset classes on earth for like 4 years running.. He's obviously doing something right.

And yeah.. I think he should step back from btc to see that it's a real possibility that some alts succeed. Still.. like I said - it seems like the guy is doing pretty well for himself.
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Old 12-15-2013, 09:38 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by sennin436 View Post
edit: come to think of it, ACH bank transfers do take 5 days between banks. so maybe there's no real way around it.
I use to own part of an ACH processing company and it doesn't take 5 days to do an ACH transaction!

This transaction takes place after your micro deposits are verified. The transaction itself, doesn't take anytime. It's the verification of funds that takes a day or two at the max.

Five days it utterly ridiculous!
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Old 12-15-2013, 09:44 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lukep View Post
You certainly wouldn't be the first... But to called it a "Blind, emotional attachment" shows me that you haven't read many of my posts. The amount of research I've done on the subject would blow your little mind.
I've probably read every post you've made about btc on this forum. I do believe your emotional attachment is fully backed by logic and great research.. but bro.. you morally support Bitcoin.. and I respect that... but go ahead and admit to yourself that your emotions may play more of a factor in your conclusions than you realize. Either way.. do your thing.. just trying to provide some perspective in a genuine effort to help a brotha out, nah mean?

Of course.. I do realize that you could be right about alts not lasting.. I just think that you're a bit too sure of that.



Quote:
You're right! Altcoins are just like the fed! -They have all the same powers and incentives, don't they!
Obviously, they have nothing in common.. my point was simply that things that do not make sense and are not only not needed but are actually detrimental to the initial goal can become foundational elements.

Things don't have to make sense, bro. I wish they did.


Quote:
Bitcoin = FTP = HTTP = SMTP <-These are protocols. There can be only one for it to be useful.

KryptoKit = Filezilla = Firefox = Outlook <-These are apps. The more the merrier!
I understand your technical point completely.. Really. I get what your saying and initially I agreed with it.. but I think it's going to more a matter of perception than anything, and that's the wild card you completely refuse to factor in: public perception.


Quote:
Portable shiny rocks = Protocol, not App.
Exactly. And there are multiple shiny rocks used for a store of value.



Quote:
That's just an illusion. It's not really "like" bitcoin was at any point because bitcoin was born and bred to be money; litecoin is basically a toy that some people haven't figured out is a toy yet. It's kinda sad to watch really.
This reaks of emotional attachment. Just sayin.



Quote:
I couldn't disagree more. Litecoin is in a weird sort of tethered bubble... Destined to crash one day when saner heads prevail.
No doubt... there's going to be a huge ltc crash... multiple, I'm sure (I hope) but that doesn't mean the whole network will disappear.

Quote:
Meanwhile, Bitcoin has quite a long way to grow towards its' potential.
Yes, and Litecoin (and maybe others) will be right there riding on it's coat tails being integrated all along the way to appease public perception and demand, regardless of how redundant reality thinks it is.
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Old 12-15-2013, 10:57 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by lukep View Post
Bitcoin = FTP = HTTP = SMTP <-These are protocols. There can be only one for it to be useful.
lolwut

HTTPS? SFTP? FTPS?
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Old 12-15-2013, 01:23 PM   #48
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CB takes a few days to clear, you should be good in a few days.
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Old 12-15-2013, 01:46 PM   #49
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Hey LukeP, how did you get word on dark wallet coming out in a month or so? Looks like a great team of developers. Looking forward to seeing what they come up with.
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Old 12-15-2013, 02:36 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meatytreats View Post
I use to own part of an ACH processing company and it doesn't take 5 days to do an ACH transaction!

This transaction takes place after your micro deposits are verified. The transaction itself, doesn't take anytime. It's the verification of funds that takes a day or two at the max.

Five days it utterly ridiculous!
I stand corrected. I guess I was thinking of the verification period that the banks would place on my funds whenever I'd send $ from my acct in one bank to my acct in a diff bank. (A 5 day wait for a free transfer, or $20 charge for a same day transfer.)
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