Come Tear me a New One! My Ambitious SERP Domination meets E-Commerce Project

Alejandro

Alejandro

The HOTH - Google Me.
May 21, 2009
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Chi-city
--What's going on--

I am starting an ecommerce business for a brand that I've been a dealer of for a while. The brand itself has huge equity for reliability and impecable quality (kind of like Wordpress amongst developers, or Lexus for cars).

A few years ago, they started a product line which has also become the industry leader in its space. The name of the product alone gets ~50k exact searches a month.

--Keyword Targeting Strategy--

Before I explain the strategy - let me just break down the syntax I'll use so it makes sense. I don't want to reveal my exact niche/product so this is what I'll use instead.

Kraft - Corporate Brand
Lunchables - Product Line
OriginAble - Product Name
3 Pack - Version​

So in my case, Kraft is a real heavyweight in its industry, and when they release Lunchables, it really sweeps the pre-packaged lunch market. The main product in the product line is OriginAble and it comes in various versions like 1pack, 3pack, 6pack, etc.

Here's the Really Bizarre Thing...

LunchableOriginables.org is available - it gets ~50k [searches]/month
KraftLunchables.net is available - it gets ~10k [searches]/month.
This will probably be my main ecommerce money site for branding reasons.

The fact that the .org is available on a 50k [search] heavily branded, HOT product suggests to me that the internet marketers in this space are either a) retarded or b) virtually non-existent. The .com and .net are owned by the manufacturer, they must have looked at the .org and and said "we're not an organization, are we?" And somehow, I was lucky enough to find it. But I digress...

I've found 38 such exact match domains relating to specific product model keywords

  • 16 get 1300-2400 exact match searches/mo
  • 14 get 3600 - 8100 exact match searches/mo
  • 8 get 9900 - 48000 exact match searches/mo

The SERPs are pretty uniform for all of the products
  • kraft.com
  • lunchables.com
  • large, macro niche (i.e. food) sites.

So here is what I'm thinking...

The ecomm site is going to be be on KraftLunchables.net for branding reasons, and because that term gets 10K exact searches/month.

The other sites will be used to build a network that links upwards to the main site. Instead of all of the pages linking up to the main moneysite homepage, they will link to the page that they are most relevant to. Each of these exact-match sites will have plenty of links built to it.

I'm thinking the front page of each site will basically be a big ass coupon + bullet pointed sales page w a big ass call to action which will lead to the product that corresponds with that domain (kind of like this layout). The sites can be fluffed with b.s. youtube content, image galleries and AuctionToPost content in the back

So here are my Questions
  • Are there any case studies of stuff like this having been done? Anything I can investigate? I've been re-reading eli's "SERP Domination" as well as eli's post on "Autopligg/Macroniche blogs."
  • Are there any major flaws in my strategy? Am I missing something?
  • How many of these secondary domains should I register? If there's a .com, .net and .org, should I take them all or just 1? (Logic says take 'em all, but just checking)
  • How many hosts should I spread them out between (I already have 2 decent shared hosts, and the ecom site will either be on a hosted platform or we'll get a dedi for it. I don't mind buying more shared hosting accounts to diversify ips, domain registrars, etc.)
  • How big should my exact match/landing page sites be (page volume that is)? The other Macroniche sites in the serps have thousands of pages, but that may be overkill for an exact match site.
  • Besides the techniques I've mentioned above, any advice on fluffing? I'm not sure I want to create an overly blatant footprint by doing the same thing on every exact-match site.
  • Should I even be concerned about a footprint, or would you recommend creating a template and sticking to it and branding all secondary sites, as subsidiaries of the main ecommerce site?
    [*]If I do this, how do i differentiate the .com/.net/.orgs that are the same (relating to questions #2)​
  • How tightly should the lower level of sites interlink? Are there any diagrams you can suggest.
  • Any thoughts on how to treat the larger exact match domains, such at the 50k .org? (I've considered using that one for the main site, but for branding reasons, it doesn't seem like the best idea)

Sorry for this super long message, but this is a big project that I'm getting into, so your feedback would be extremely helpful.

Here are some boobs for your generosity

78%20Great%20Tits.jpg

aria_great_tits.jpg

...and some chocolate for good measure...
india-profile.jpg
 


I would say the biggest problem is that you are basing your whole business on another company's trademarked terms. Before you buy any domains like LunchableOriginables.org I would work out an agreement with Kraft where you are allowed to build and market that domain for the next 5-10 years. Also, you'd want to make sure that they will continue to provide you with product to sell.

You wouldn't want to spend a lot of time setting all of this up and then have the company decide either they want the domains back or they don't want to deal with you.

That's one of the biggest problems when you're promoting a 3rd party's product line.

From an SEO perspective I think you're on the right track. Build lots of feeder sites that link to your main ecommerce site. I'd recommend on the ecommerce site that you also add lots of unique content. Don't just reuse their product feed. Get a content writer to generate a few paragraphs of unique copy for each product you're selling.
 
I spoke to the national sales manager the other day and I asked him if its ok if I name the site, "Lunchables Specialists" or something similar. Its pretty obvious the dude is somewhat clueless regarding the online sales channel, and went on some rant about how things used to be when he used to be a traditional retail sales person. He seemed to have no qualms with the use of the domain, etc.

I'm hesitant to ask these guys to sign all kinds of contracts, etc. because I think they may be clueless enough that they may just overlook this. If I make a big deal out of it, that itself may cause them concern.

Anyone else have thoughts on this?
 
Alejandro said:
I spoke to the national sales manager the other day and I asked him if its ok if I name the site, "Lunchables Specialists" or something similar. Its pretty obvious the dude is somewhat clueless regarding the online sales channel, and went on some rant about how things used to be when he used to be a traditional retail sales person. He seemed to have no qualms with the use of the domain, etc.

I'm hesitant to ask these guys to sign all kinds of contracts, etc. because I think they may be clueless enough that they may just overlook this. If I make a big deal out of it, that itself may cause them concern.

Anyone else have thoughts on this?
Click to expand...

FAIL. They don't care about you right now because you aren't making money. The second you start cashing in, all your shit is gonna get either shut down or jacked.

I don't even think contracts can help you, but you should get them signed at the very least.
 
dchuk said:
FAIL. They don't care about you right now because you aren't making money. The second you start cashing in, all your shit is gonna get either shut down or jacked.

I don't even think contracts can help you, but you should get them signed at the very least.
Click to expand...

THIS. Drop the whole idea and find 20 of your own longtail niches that add up to the same amount of traffic. Build up an empire of these sites and you'll do just as well.
 
backlinkgurus said:
THIS. Drop the whole idea and find 20 of your own longtail niches that add up to the same amount of traffic.
Click to expand...

What exactly does this mean?

Of the 38 domains mentioned, most are "long tail niches" for this product line.

Which other long tail niches would I be searching for exactly? Also, this is a space where people are highly brand motivated, like guitars. Targeting "6 string electric guitars" isn't going to be nearly as effective as "fender stratocaster special edition" - the quality of traffic is going to be incomparable.
 
Alejandro said:
What exactly does this mean?

Of the 38 domains mentioned, most are "long tail niches" for this product line.

Which other long tail niches would I be searching for exactly? Also, this is a space where people are highly brand motivated, like guitars. Targeting "6 string electric guitars" isn't going to be nearly as effective as "fender stratocaster special edition" - the quality of traffic is going to be incomparable.
Click to expand...

build a site called "6stringelectricguitars.com" and have a subsection of "/fender-stratocaster-special-edition".

You can't be smacked for infringement if the trademark is just in your url. If it's in your main domain, you're gonna get smacked eventually. Not worth the risk.
 
I work with a website that has a KraftSnacks.com type domain name. Our Kraft is actually very happy with our website and has even featured us on their list of preferred retailers. I wouldn't rule out your idea completely without at least trying to get consent.

For reference, this is a $100K/year in revenue sized site.
 
With brands and trademarks, you're only going to screw yourself by building everything with a tm in the domain. If it fails, it fails; if it succeeds, you lose it. Also consider the fact that however successful, all brands and products are transient and all markets are cyclical. So if you succeed, and miraculously escape a UDRP, your whole project is built on a set of specific products/services that can be supplanted by consumer tastes pretty quickly.

Lunch, on the other hand (to use the example above) is pretty much universal. Find good domains from the broad niche, draw your traffic from content to the long niche and you will find that the results are not materially different from what you would have had with the exact match. As an added plus, once you have some traffic and numbers in the highly competitive lunch niche, you have a set of brass balls to swing at Kraft and say "Well, I've got this thing I'm putting together with Franco-American, but I see the synergies between my company and Kraft being potentially greater, so how about you grant me licence to use this domain and that domain for marketing purposes?"

It's the same amount of work, less money on domains and development, probably the same level of success, it's consumer fucktard proof, and it gives you leverage in the business in which you're building to approach Kraft, Franco-American and all the others.


Frank
 
Also be careful about people's brand sensitivity. Moms love Kraft and guitarisits love Fender but nobody buys products directly from either. In these two industries and lots of others, the gatekeepers to a lot of marketing successes are found at the distributor and retailer level. By staying off of the tm domains you can establish relationships at the d/r level and get extremely good insight as to what's brewing in your industry. The manufacturer is always going to pimp its own stuff no matter what; the distributors and retailers are on the lookout for the next big thing at all times.


Frank
 
Frank,

Great feedback. I really appreciate it. Thank you.

The main reason I didn't take this approach to begin with is because I largely want to optimize this thing and let it ride out, with some management from a more active partner and a few people in the philipines.

Also, the idea is that if we can get this one successful mid-sized niche ecommerce business that does >100K/year, we can leverage its assets to replicate the same success in other categories where we have relevant web assets.

Also there is kind of a philosophical issue here -

The general web marketing strategy is pick something ultra niche since you can be so targeted in your promotions and dominate the shit out of that niche. The more traditional retail strategy is offer a shitload of products because he have less targeting and you can't really afford to have people come and not buy stuff, otherwise the landlord will get pissed.

You do bring up a good point though, a "Lunch" site with a heavily optimized "kraft section" definitely benefits if/when it introduces a new product line, but I think there's quite a bit lost in the directness of the targeting.

However, people are more likely to buy a lexus from "Lexus of Chicago" dealership than "Automart." The opportunity I see is to be a "Lexus of America" amongst a bunch of "Automart's," and I'm not sure I'll achieve the same the same kind of results if I brand it as another "Automart."
 
But if you built LexusOfWickedfire.com it might get traffic but could implode quickly.

Mind you -- do your thing. I'm not one of those people who get screechy about shit. I'm just saying that, in response to your request for feedback, this is what I'd do based on stuff I've done that worked, stuff that didn't work etc. You're talking about building a 100k/year niche business, but it won't be that if it gets yanked out from under you 50k into the first year. I'm talking about building a 20k/year platform from which any number of 100k campaigns can be launched.

One of the legends around here wrote a post a couple of years ago about getting direct-to-advertiser access for CPA campaigns. I tried to find it, but not very hard, sorry. It's worth reading if one of the veterans happens to remember it. This thread reminds me of that because the process I'm describing is similar.

What I'm suggesting, rather than trying to build on Kraft's credibility directly, is to do everything else you were planning on doing except for the domain names. If you have the domain names but your content and linkbuilding is shit, you won't generate 100k/year just on the domains themselves. Even if they rank they won't stick ie. they'll be on page one one minute and page six the next. But if you're doing quality work on relevant domains you're going to do extremely well even without the exact phrase domains, and you'll be in a position to approach Kraft or any other company with plans and ideas and can work out all kinds of profitable deals with them.

It's very similar to running an offer on a CPA network that pays and pays and pays and finally just going to the advertiser and saying, in essence, "Why are you and I paying these guys to act as a middleman?"

Build your properties on what amounts to Kraft's land, and you could still succeed with it, but you're taking a huge and largely unneccesary risk. And if you're serious about building it into a long-term viable, big-money venture, then you need to seriously consider the implications of having to come up with Plan B early on when your domains get yanked and/or you get sued pantsless (also a possibility if you're making real money with it.) It's not that it won't work -- it probably will work. It's that you are voluntarily relinquinshing a huge amount of power and control simply by grabbing the wrong domains.


Frank
 
_Tuff_ said:
I work with a website that has a KraftSnacks.com type domain name. Our Kraft is actually very happy with our website and has even featured us on their list of preferred retailers.
Click to expand...

For every situation like this one, there are probably ten like this guy I knew. Had a site about NASCAR, with NASCAR in the domain name. Created a lot of quality content and built up a decent and growing community. He didn't have ecommerce but was at the threshold ... selling bucket-loads of related affiliate products and stuff through cafepress, etc.

The NASCAR organization contacted him about working together on some project, everything was great. Next thing he knew they launched the project without him. A few months later they took the domain.

Another affiliate I knew of had the product owner's permission to use the brand name in his domain. A few years later some bad apples, who didn't have formal permission, had to be slapped down. The owner decided to prohibit use of the brand in domains they didn't own. He was sorry and all -- probably kicked something back to the guy as compensation -- but the domain had to go.

It's not a risk I'd take.
 
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