Is there a legal angle for this idea?

Status
Not open for further replies.
A

Alpha55

New member
Jun 17, 2007
52
0
0
This idea is very grey area but bear with me.

Torrent sites give away the IP addresses of all the people leaching the torrent files. It's easy to get their IPs, and once you have those you can WHOIS search to find who the ISP is. From there I want to contact the ISP to request the person's information, and then send them a letter like this:

"Securico Software's online piracy monitor has found your computer to have made a download of the following from an unauthorized internet source:


Spiderman 3 full movie!!! VCD {XTREME}.vcd


This media is valued at: $8 USD

If you have legal rights to access this movie from the internet, please send back the attached notice with verifiable information of your right to view it.

If you do not have legal rights to this media you can not view it legally without paying an amount equal to the media's value. Failure to do so may result in legal consequences.

Send payment via the enclosed envelope by July 1 2007 to the following address

Address"

I think a letter like this will pull a lot of conversions because the guy is fearing getting sued. What is the price of a cheap movie to avoid that?

The problem is doing this legally. Even though it wasn't stated explicitly, the letter seems to be from a company representing the content owner. Also the intent is clearly to trick the person into sending money. Add these together and it could spell fraud/blackmail/extortion/maybe even something else.

In it's current form, I know this will not work. However, do you guys see a way to spin this to make it legal? I see a huge potential market in online piracy...
 
Last edited:


I've heard of this being done, people getting emails regarding certain pirated software to call a certain number. Then they end up being told to pay or major legal hassles. I know at least one person who did pay.

I don't know if they figured out who people were (I doubt it), or it was just emails sent to a mailing list of sorts.

Either way what you're saying is not legal, and I don't think an ISP is going to give you someone's information.

But you're thinking creatively, so you should be able to come up with something good.
 
What kind of crappy ISP would release the information of their customers to a non-authority? I don't know what country you live in but it's probably illegal in most countries to give out personal information like that. Not to mention how illegal your actions would be. I'd say, don't bother. Too much hassle. If you're that interested in fraud and/or spam, there's a whole lot of other areas that are much easier to get started with.
 
Alpha55 said:
This idea is very grey area but bear with me.

Torrent sites give away the IP addresses of all the people leaching the torrent files. It's easy to get their IPs, and once you have those you can WHOIS search to find who the ISP is. From there I want to contact the ISP to request the person's information, and then send them a letter like this:

"Securico Software's online piracy monitor has found your computer to have made a download of the following from an unauthorized internet source:


Spiderman 3 full movie!!! VCD {XTREME}.vcd


This media is valued at: $8 USD

If you have legal rights to access this movie from the internet, please send back the attached notice with verifiable information of your right to view it.

If you do not have legal rights to this media you can not view it legally without paying an amount equal to the media's value. Failure to do so may result in legal consequences.

Send payment via the enclosed envelope by July 1 2007 to the following address

Address"

I think a letter like this will pull a lot of conversions because the guy is fearing getting sued. What is the price of a cheap movie to avoid that?

The problem is doing this legally. Even though it wasn't stated explicitly, the letter seems to be from a company representing the content owner. Also the intent is clearly to trick the person into sending money. Add these together and it could spell fraud/blackmail/extortion/maybe even something else.

In it's current form, I know this will not work. However, do you guys see a way to spin this to make it legal? I see a huge potential market in online piracy...
Click to expand...

Or just make them call an overpriced number that you setup and you'll get let's say 1.99$ per call. Send that e-mail to 100k guys and you got yourself 200k $.
Doesn't need to be someone answering the phone. Could be just a robot saying that this number doesn't exist(this way you'll have even people calling back thinking they dialed the wrong number)
If it's anyway you could write that e-mail to not look spammy and illegal then you got a business. Hard to avoid the illegal part tho.
But keep thinking dude your on the right track.
 
You guys are right about the ISP problem. I don't know how, but I think there are other ways to deal with that. I have heard of regular guys pulling personal information with just the IP somehow.

Oh yes and before anyone else tells me this is illegal please check out the last couple of sentences in my OP :)
 
robertdotcom said:
Or just make them call an overpriced number that you setup and you'll get let's say 1.99$ per call. Send that e-mail to 100k guys and you got yourself 200k $.
Doesn't need to be someone answering the phone. Could be just a robot saying that this number doesn't exist(this way you'll have even people calling back thinking they dialed the wrong number)
If it's anyway you could write that e-mail to not look spammy and illegal then you got a business. Hard to avoid the illegal part tho.
But keep thinking dude your on the right track.
Click to expand...

Thanks. I read about what you suggested several years ago and it's highly illegal. The feds can't do anything about it though because the guys setup the calls to go out of the US somehow.

I want to stay legal. Maybe a bit unscrupulous, but still legal ;) Target online pirates is hardly unscrupulous to me anyways...
 
Alpha55 said:
In it's current form, I know this will not work. However, do you guys see a way to spin this to make it legal? I see a huge potential market in online piracy...
Click to expand...

Think about it from Warner's point of view. If they were to do this themselves they wouldn't be conning or blackmailing anyone.
It would be in their right to do so and they wouldn't have to lie about anything.

But why aren't they doing it? Why are they not getting this potential money?
 
halfpc said:
Think about it from Warner's point of view. If they were to do this themselves they wouldn't be conning or blackmailing anyone.
It would be in their right to do so and they wouldn't have to lie about anything.

But why aren't they doing it? Why are they not getting this potential money?
Click to expand...

1. Because suing masses of people for $10 is bad for their image regardless of who is at fault. For most producers it's jsut not worth the risk or the hassle.

2. Some producers do send out cease and desist type letters occasionally. You never heard of anyone getting such a letter?

3. And finally the RIAA actually does sue people, sometimes on a massive scale. I guess they figure it's better to go the tough guy route than avoid sending a bad image of the music industry to consumers.
 
Robertdotcom's mentioning of that phone scam prompted me to read up on it and from what I gather it is actually NOT illegal, unless it's done in a boiler room type setup. What happens is the caller calls a number that looks like a local number but is actually international, and gets billed accordingly. Unlike 900 numbers, these international numbers don't have to report that they bill the caller. I think this could work great in conjunction with an affiliate offer even if the offer sucks! Whether he buys or not you still get a few bucks from the call which could pay divdends with high volume.

I was hesitant to post this thread but now because of this one idea that emerged, I'm glad I did ;)
 
Alpha55 said:
Target online pirates is hardly unscrupulous to me anyways...
Click to expand...

True, although I don't see any way to make it legal. Only the actual owner or someone officially comissioned can go after them legally.

Anyway, it's a nice idea to scare the shit out of these thieves :D
 
Alpha55 said:
1. Because suing masses of people for $10 is bad for their image regardless of who is at fault. For most producers it's jsut not worth the risk or the hassle.

2. Some producers do send out cease and desist type letters occasionally. You never heard of anyone getting such a letter?

3. And finally the RIAA actually does sue people, sometimes on a massive scale. I guess they figure it's better to go the tough guy route than avoid sending a bad image of the music industry to consumers.
Click to expand...

Well, I never mentioned suing people, just doing exactly what you suggested: scaring them into paying. They'd have your success rate and would be legal.
Perhaps one in every 5 would pay the fine and 4 out of 5 would consider buying some form of IP spoofing software.
The producers could flood the market with such software just before sending out these letters!

I did hear about letters being sent but not on a large scale, I think I heard of one 13 yo girl getting sued for half a million or something equally stupid.
Perhaps I have said it: they are massively out of touch, them and the RIAA combined.
The Metallica guys all admit they have been complete Idiots to do the Napster thing.
 
barman said:
Good job thinking outside the box, but this is fucking dumb ass shit.

If you wanted to fuck people legally, send out letters to publicly available whois information, saying "Your domain is coming up for renewal, don't let it expire." Make it look like a legit bill (you'll need some good small fine print) and charge motherfuckers $35 a year. Like these cocksuckers: Domain Registry of America - Domains, Free Web Hosting, Search Submissions and Excellent Customer Service
Click to expand...

This doesn't make sense. Im assuming the domain has to be really expiring because you cant register an already registered domain with a different company.
 
Its for dumbasses who believe the fake bill

yoey said:
This doesn't make sense. Im assuming the domain has to be really expiring because you cant register an already registered domain with a different company.
Click to expand...
 
Oh, I see how these fuckers at droa do it. They don't tell you "domain is not available" (like most reputable companies). They just tell you that you can renew it there if you are the owner.

Pretty smart.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom