So I did an interview (premier CB vendor..)

ncmedia

Relying On Talent...
Oct 28, 2007
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Did this interview for a music marketing biz and covered a lot of my come-up at clickbank as a vendor. I had to keep it somewhat noob/inspiring and relative to music but all in all some good knowledge is droped (moved over 50K units of software at $40-$90 via affiliates).

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2f4NUmt6Z8]Interview with Norb Czufis Creator of Dub Turbo NEW 1 - YouTube[/ame]
 
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Great stuff Norb.

All of the CB knowledge you've been dropping over the past couple years on here have been extremely helpful +rep
 
Did this interview for a music marketing biz and covered a lot of my come-up at clickbank as a vendor. I had to keep it somewhat noob/inspiring and relative to music but all in all some good knowledge is droped (moved over 50K units of software at $40-$90 via affiliates).

Interview with Norb Czufis Creator of Dub Turbo NEW 1 - YouTube

Was real interesting for me. I'm trying to figure out how did you come up with this idea in the first place? I mean the DAW/VST market is pretty saturated, and usually ppl just take their pick from the main players. What made you come up with Dubturbo? Is it just about the low pricepoint? Is it about targeting to a specific audience (ie clueless beginners)?

In addition would you mind sharing the production process of the software? I mean did you design the product yourself and had dev. outsourced? edit: do you use it yourself? ;)
 
Thanks guys.

Was real interesting for me. I'm trying to figure out how did you come up with this idea in the first place? I mean the DAW/VST market is pretty saturated, and usually ppl just take their pick from the main players. What made you come up with Dubturbo? Is it just about the low pricepoint? Is it about targeting to a specific audience (ie clueless beginners)?

In addition would you mind sharing the production process of the software? I mean did you design the product yourself and had dev. outsourced? edit: do you use it yourself? ;)

What made me think of it?
- I actually had an associate who came to me with the idea based on a few of the smaller daw's/beatapps already on the market and knowing we could do better re packaging/branding/creating something useful with tons of value and a lower price compared to what's out there.

It didn't really have an objective at first past the fact that we really wanted to enter the space and found some talent that could help put the vision together based on my designs/thought process of how it would all work (button by button/function by function).

It's one of those 'I didn't really know what I'm sitting on' until it just took off.

You're right, there's TONS of similar shit out there, VST's, full blown daw's, and now we've had 5-6 competitors dupe us. For whatever reasons, the branding/value/updates/marketing/all of the above our shit simply moves like crazy. I've had a lot of moments where I thought my run was over, especially when we got attacked heavy by a new competitor with lot's of money and a 6 month campaign against us but we survived/got stronger.

It started as one lil' app, now it's the same app, 4 versions later, and 5 new VST's + 5000+ new sounds/monthly rebill sound pool etc. So it's a lot more than it was planned to be - the biz became reactive early on and I've just kept on adding to it as the markets indicate (i.e. adding new dubstep and trap samples as those genres are blowing up)...

Noobs love it because it's an easy solution to their needs re the basics of beat building/sequencing/learning curve before jumping into a big DAW. Pro's like it because for $40 they get 2500 sounds to strip from it and use with their other gear and some of the effect VST's are also useful for them.

I didn't plan to get this big - but I did know that as I launched more and more shit it was just a matter of time/numbers before something stuck, had no idea how big it would/will still get, imo I'm still a small fry but I'm doing it right.

Yes I still use it, it's also a web-based app so when on the road and wanting to produce or show others I pop on and create something quick. Also I'm always designing new sounds for the sound pool and auditing them/creating stuff with them weekly to ensure they bang. I have a $50K studio here so I use a lot of shit but it's a cool thing to have as an addition to the rest of my gear.
 
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Thanks guys.



What made me think of it?
- I actually had an associate who came to me with the idea based on a few of the smaller daw's/beatapps already on the market and knowing we could do better re packaging/branding/creating something useful with tons of value and a lower price compared to what's out there.

It didn't really have an objective at first past the fact that we really wanted to enter the space and found some talent that could help put the vision together based on my designs/thought process of how it would all work (button by button/function by function).

It's one of those 'I didn't really know what I'm sitting on' until it just took off.

You're right, there's TONS of similar shit out there, VST's, full blown daw's, and now we've had 5-6 competitors dupe us. For whatever reasons, the branding/value/updates/marketing/all of the above our shit simply moves like crazy. I've had a lot of moments where I thought my run was over, especially when we got attacked heavy by a new competitor with lot's of money and a 6 month campaign against us but we survived/got stronger.

It started as one lil' app, now it's the same app, 4 versions later, and 5 new VST's + 5000+ new sounds/monthly rebill sound pool etc. So it's a lot more than it was planned to be - the biz became reactive early on and I've just kept on adding to it as the markets indicate (i.e. adding new dubstep and trap samples as those genres are blowing up)...

Noobs love it because it's an easy solution to their needs re the basics of beat building/sequencing/learning curve before jumping into a big DAW. Pro's like it because for $40 they get 2500 sounds to strip from it and use with their other gear and some of the effect VST's are also useful for them.

I didn't plan to get this big - but I did know that as I launched more and more shit it was just a matter of time/numbers before something stuck, had no idea how big it would/will still get, imo I'm still a small fry but I'm doing it right.

Yes I still use it, it's also a web-based app so when on the road and wanting to produce or show others I pop on and create something quick. Also I'm always designing new sounds for the sound pool and auditing them/creating stuff with them weekly to ensure they bang. I have a $50K studio here so I use a lot of shit but it's a cool thing to have as an addition to the rest of my gear.

wow thanks man for the elaborate answer. It's funny how the CB ecosystem works, you never know what's gonna take off. Seems like you had the advantage to be 1st to market on CB, plus you nailed it with the brand name imo, with dubstep exploding in recent years, as you mentioned. Nice to see how you took all your passion and versatility and transformed it to success.

Do you think Dubturbo would/can succeed outside CB? In the so-called "real" world? On the same note, do you have a noticeable brand/organic chunk of traffic, or close-to-all comes from affiliates?
 
Been talking to/stalking ncmedia for a long fucking time (even in my WaFo days) and the guy is never cagey about his business/advice, +1 rep since you represent literally less than 1% of people in this biz who have those qualities, I don't even have them, I'm a selfish fuck. Peeping the vid later.
 
Do you think Dubturbo would/can succeed outside CB? In the so-called "real" world? On the same note, do you have a noticeable brand/organic chunk of traffic, or close-to-all comes from affiliates?

* I do, though spread too thin to approach those moves. I recently went to ::

320903_10151263518003462_66408966_n.jpg


to try to get the dragons to help me with it - I'm going for walmarts/targets/offline dist. but don't want to do it alone and fumble my way through it - would rather focus on what I know best and is making me money now. The margins are big and we get emails a lot asking which stores carry us so sooner than later yeah you might see this in stores.

Re organic traffic - yep - though most of our sales are aff based, my brand is established (and made fun of a lot too by big producer forums because we're for beginners/interms and undercut the market so it seems). We do get type in traffic and there's 7 figs worth of results in goog under the brandname so the aff's have blanketed the web well re awareness.

Been talking to/stalking ncmedia for a long fucking time (even in my WaFo days) and the guy is never cagey about his business/advice, +1 rep since you represent literally less than 1% of people in this biz who have those qualities, I don't even have them, I'm a selfish fuck. Peeping the vid later.

Cheers bro - you're not selfish, I think if the right person approached you for an interview and it was for a group of people you enjoyed helping (i.e. I like the thought of talking to a bunch of young musicians), you'd take it and be proud. We all have that inner desire to help others under the right circumstances.
 
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* I do, though spread too thin to approach those moves. I recently went to ::

320903_10151263518003462_66408966_n.jpg


to try to get the dragons to help me with it - I'm going for walmarts/targets/offline dist. but don't want to do it alone and fumble my way through it - would rather focus on what I know best and is making me money now. The margins are big and we get emails a lot asking which stores carry us so sooner than later yeah you might see this in stores.

Re organic traffic - yep - though most of our sales are aff based, my brand is established (and made fun of a lot too by big producer forums because we're for beginners/interms and undercut the market so it seems). We do get type in traffic and there's 7 figs worth of results in goog under the brandname so the aff's have blanketed the web well re awareness.



Cheers bro - you're not selfish, I think if the right person approached you for an interview and it was for a group of people you enjoyed helping (i.e. I like the thought of talking to a bunch of young musicians), you'd take it and be proud. We all have that inner desire to help others under the right circumstances.

Norb, just saw this thread. Not sure how I missed it. I'd love to hear about your appearance on Dragon's Den. Is that some Canadian version of Shark Tank?
 
^ Cheers,

Really? Never heard of DD? It's exactly that - CAD version of sharktank, I got to the auditions and that was it unfortunately no call back yet. I'm told I might get called up until late summer or so but not holding my breath.

It was a great experience being put on the spot, I had to present to them like I would be to the dragons and they drilled me. It was good for once being surrounded by other fucking awesome ideas, and total duds all pitching. Some people you could just tell they were going to get on based on good TV vs good biz. I thought I was going to make it for sure but think I just got cocky and didn't realize this is for TV way more than it is making money from the pitches (4000 ppl avg audition per year, 400 make it to cut, 250 to air, half are fucking jokes, it's not all about the best pitches at all).

Would still recommend any biz owner to go through this if auditions are ever in your area, just a good exercise in general and forcing yourself out of your at home comfort box of biz.
 
There was a thread on UK business forum a while back about a chap who went on Uk DD with an ecomm business (can't remember what exactly, something to do with outdoor gear, tents or whatever) and got slaughtered by the dragons, one of which was slagging him off for not 'owning' the ecomm framework and using an off-the-shelf one instead. Something along the lines of wanting him to spend £10k of it on that or it wasn't a real business. Anyway, the thread ran for a few pages before the chap popped up himself and thanked everyone for their input - he was an active forum member for several years.

He described the process during filming etc. and explained his reason for doing it - exposure. His sales increased a stupid amount immediately following the airing, not sure if they've maintained that - didn't really follow up what happened as the show isn't about investment or what happens after. A few become z-list successes from the investment, but we don't really hear anything about the inventions or products in the mainstream that often after it's over.

What you have to remember here though, is that this is a TV show - it's made by a production company to sell to broadcasters to gain viewers, so it's for entertainment / advertising purposes only. The content, although reasonably irrelevant, is entertaining and good enough advertising platform that it works in multiple countries - need I say more. It doesn't matter if people get investment or not really - those who are already successful (or will be) are there for the exposure, and a free 10min "advertising" slot on prime TV is worth how much?

I don't know what your networks over there charge for that sort of thing, but I can tell you that's not cheap here in Uk and to make it better it's on a fucking BBC channel!

As someone who spent over a decade in TV production (including advertising) I think I can say with some confidence what this show is about. (concidentally I did a project with one of our previous Dragons just a few years ago, nothing to do with the show - other media stuff, but he was on it at the time.)

As to what you can expect - it will be ~2hr filming cut up & edited into 10mins for good TV. Expect your valid arguments to be edited out if the producers want you to look a prize twat, or edited in a positive way if they like you. Trust me - I know this from experience ;)

You know this yourself Norbz as someone who's been involved in this kind of production shizzle before (well, ok audio production), but I'm just trying to cement the point here about the purpose of the show, I know nobody here needs telling of its true value, I guess the thing to do is see if you pal up with the producer / team for best results. I'll see if I can dig out that other chap's thread - made for quite an interesting read.

Wishing all the best in getting on there - that would be fantastic!

edit: To say Dragons Den is not a show I've had anything to do with just to be clear.
 
When I was pitching, she (I got to pitch to the senior exec) stopped me half way and was like "So you have this amazing biz, tons of money, why the fuck would you want a bunch of egomaniacs running your life and telling you what to do?".

It was a great question, and I had to ponder... "Because I think it's going to get me to move 20million units a hell of a lot faster and I guess being egomaniac'ed by the dragons is a sacrifice I'm willing to make/trade?"

She then proceeds to tell me that she asked bluntly because people use DD as nothing more than free advertising a lot and they have to filter it, and I fit that category, I don't NEED them, at all, she say's. Which is true, but fuck, I WANT them, I want to move into offline, I want to not be a one man army anymore, I want to EXIT soon...

So yeah, for all I know they simply classed me as a troll looking for airtime for my (in their eyes) established brand.
 
When I was pitching, she (I got to pitch to the senior exec) stopped me half way and was like "So you have this amazing biz, tons of money, why the fuck would you want a bunch of egomaniacs running your life and telling you what to do?".

It was a great question, and I had to ponder... "Because I think it's going to get me to move 20million units a hell of a lot faster and I guess being egomaniac'ed by the dragons is a sacrifice I'm willing to make/trade?"

She then proceeds to tell me that she asked bluntly because people use DD as nothing more than free advertising a lot and they have to filter it, and I fit that category, I don't NEED them, at all, she say's. Which is true, but fuck, I WANT them, I want to move into offline, I want to not be a one man army anymore, I want to EXIT soon...

So yeah, for all I know they simply classed me as a troll looking for airtime for my (in their eyes) established brand.

that 20mil number, you just threw that randomly in or you think you can really move so many (I mean not your ability but the market size)
 
absolutely random - I moved 50K units, and it made me a nice chunk of change.

If I could get an endorsement from a major label, major artist, major retail outlet, anybody who can push millions of units through their existing channels it would be more than enough for me forever x 10 and my margins are so retarded (yay digital product) I'm really surprised we're not in retail or endorsed yet myself but I'm patient :).

Re market, there isn't much data out there - but because this is made for beginners, and it almost crosses into a game type experience for kids, it's market isn't just for musicians we get tons of people buying who never really thought about music production until they saw us :). There are some trials for download of bigger apps that are past 5M downloads but other than that not much data.
 
absolutely random - I moved 50K units, and it made me a nice chunk of change.

If I could get an endorsement from a major label, major artist, major retail outlet, anybody who can push millions of units through their existing channels it would be more than enough for me forever x 10 and my margins are so retarded (yay digital product) I'm really surprised we're not in retail or endorsed yet myself but I'm patient :).

Re market, there isn't much data out there - but because this is made for beginners, and it almost crosses into a game type experience for kids, it's market isn't just for musicians we get tons of people buying who never really thought about music production until they saw us :). There are some trials for download of bigger apps that are past 5M downloads but other than that not much data.

According to NAMM 2011 report the market is about $15mil/year in the US (look on page 31 under "plugin soft. and loops"): NAMM 2011 Global Report
I was surprised by this number, initially I thought its much more.
 
Hell no it's way more.

I definitely did NOT capture 10% of the market last year.

I'd guess more like 150. DAW's, VST's, samples, loops, massive/maschine/other patches/upgrades/templates, this shit is exploding i'm probably low on the 150.
 
well yeah they put DAW's under a separate section (recording and sequencing), overall you were pretty close on the 150 estimate :D
 
Norb - I see you did some promotion / tutorial work on another 'beat maker' software - who had endorsement, is there no way you could get in touch with those artists? They're pretty big after all! To be fair - I think you have a good product (not for me though as I have a studio with Cubase + a stack of outboard) but at it's price it's probably the better of them.

I definitely think you should think about the tablet side, and if you have the money to invest in developing a hardware controller that will really set it aside (obviously). I've worked many years in video & audio production & post-production (me and another chap put together a few of Soho's top studios) so I've worked with 'fudging' hardware controllers to DAWs quite a lot and most if it is a simple USB interfaces, even in the large mixing frames. (Fairlight Dream springs to mind.)

I notice more and more 'middle / low end' products are 'put your tablet on here and it turns it into a pair of DJ decks or DAW' style thing. I'm going hazzard a guess that dtb would be a piece of piss to adapt. All you'd really need is hardware transport + decent jog/shuttle wheel, 16 soft-keys and about 16 faders.

I genuinely think you could make a success of it as it happens.

edit: Oh yeah going back to DD - that sounds about right what the producer was asking you (good TV only for them).