The Real Problem with Zip Submits

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sunnyaros

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Jun 16, 2007
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I was on the phone with my affiliate manager the other day and even she sounded confused when it came to zip and email submits.

These companies are shady, why you might ask? Well here is how the process runs-

-You enter your zip code.
-The very next page mentions enter your address and complete at least 3 gold, silver or bronze whatever offers to claim your gift.
-You might try to fill up one of the offers than it shows you like thousands of other offers till the time you freak out filling forms.
-And where's your free gift you might ask? Well even after you are done filling almost hundreds of offers you get nothing. But the fact is it never ends, page after page they annoy the hell out of you.

So what happens to the end user? Well he ends up getting frustrated and leaves.

And this is what's actually causing the incentive offers to die. These firms force the user with hundreds of offers and in the greed of getting a free ipod, iphone, gift cards or whatever the user fills in fake information or maybe just types "abcd" for most of the fields.

This eventually pisses off the companies which offer incentive based campaigns due to thousands of fake sign ups thereby killing the whole incentive industry.

So the moral of the story is that these companies have been fishy right from the beginning with something that does not have a strong base. And this is the main reason why most leads don't convert for them only due to the way they force the end user again and again through hundreds of forms and pages.
 


It's called business, squeeze the bottom line till you can't squeeze it no more then move onto something else.
 
And yes I would like to add one more thing. Sometimes when you ask for a higher payout for zips and emails they tend to convert less. There is a grey area to this most companies do not share with affiliates. So eventually you might get a higher payout but your conversions would be lesser than normal thereby you don't end up making more but the same. You might be wondering where did I get this information from? Well I got too friendly with one of my affiliate managers and she gave me some insight on how shady it gets sometimes.
 
Insomniac said:
It's called business, squeeze the bottom line till you can't squeeze it no more then move onto something else.
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Yes it is business but there is something known as a fair practice. They are not fair to the end user and the affiliates at the same time.
 
here's an idea

dont fucking run them then, do something else

do you really think there isn't shady shit going on in every aspect of business - especially online

give me a fucking break

:crying::crying::crying::crying::crying:
 
It's called scrubbing. Take a bunch of worthless affiliates (you) and tell them to send traffic to an offer. The offers pays based on what they make on it, quite often the margins are very slim, or it could take months to recoup the lead price. Then when the affiliate complains because the payout is too low and you can't do anything about it, you add a 20% scrub and increase the payouts by 20%, meaning you are spending the same amount but the worthless affiliates (you) think you're getting a better deal because you failed second grade maths.

Take mobile offers for example, did you realize the carrier keeps 45% or more of the subscription value? So if an offer is $9.99/mo the advertiser is most likely only going to get $5/mo. Then you have to remember there is a 30%+ unsub rate within the first month. Do the math and you realize it takes 5-6 months before the offer gets a single cent back on their investment they paid to you. Then consider that they are most likely paying $14/lead for 3,000 leads/day and you come to the realization that they are in fact paying out almost $7 million before they start making a profit. Now tell me they don't have a reason to scrub when you ask for a 'measly' extra dollar.
 
nachoninja said:
here's an idea

dont fucking run them then, do something else

do you really think there isn't shady shit going on in every aspect of business - especially online

give me a fucking break

:crying::crying::crying::crying::crying:
Click to expand...

i've substituted campaigns originally meant for zip submits with other things. for instance, people will answer the survey, and then bam, theres a blockbuster sign-up page. depending on the niche and audience and merchant, it works.
 
Insomniac said:
It's called scrubbing. Take a bunch of worthless affiliates (you) and tell them to send traffic to an offer. The offers pays based on what they make on it, quite often the margins are very slim, or it could take months to recoup the lead price. Then when the affiliate complains because the payout is too low and you can't do anything about it, you add a 20% scrub and increase the payouts by 20%, meaning you are spending the same amount but the worthless affiliates (you) think you're getting a better deal because you failed second grade maths.

Take mobile offers for example, did you realize the carrier keeps 45% or more of the subscription value? So if an offer is $9.99/mo the advertiser is most likely only going to get $5/mo. Then you have to remember there is a 30%+ unsub rate within the first month. Do the math and you realize it takes 5-6 months before the offer gets a single cent back on their investment they paid to you. Then consider that they are most likely paying $14/lead for 3,000 leads/day and you come to the realization that they are in fact paying out almost $7 million before they start making a profit. Now tell me they don't have a reason to scrub when you ask for a 'measly' extra dollar.
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lol, Yes I am really worthless when my affiliate managers are willing to pay a higher payout themselves without even me asking. The job of an affiliate manager is to make more money and if you have the traffic and the volume they have no problems with increasing the payout themselves.

I must admit you are funny, Do you work at the circus by the way? ha ha
 
sunnyaros said:
lol, Yes I am really worthless when my affiliate managers are willing to pay a higher payout themselves without even me asking. The job of an affiliate manager is to make more money and if you have the traffic and the volume they have no problems with increasing the payout themselves.

I must admit you are funny, Do you work at the circus by the way? ha ha
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No, the job of an affiliate manager is to make their boss more money. If that means keeping you happy then so be it, but you are NOT their priority.

And by the way, yes I do work at a circus, here I am at work:

drunk-clown.jpg
 
Insomniac said:
No, the job of an affiliate manager is to make their boss more money. If that means keeping you happy then so be it, but you are NOT their priority.

And by the way, yes I do work at a circus, here I am at work:

drunk-clown.jpg
Click to expand...


Yes i am absolutely certain that you do work at the circus as every affiliate manager gets commission out of each affiliate under them. So the more volume they get the more money they make for themselves. And well when an affiliate manager calls you day and night only because you have volume than yes you are on their priority list.

Hmm and seems like my words hit you hard, So hard that you spend time digging out a lame picture of a joker peeing. Hey but if that's really you than I do understand why you got fired from the circus. With that bottle of alcohol in your hand you must be drinking on the job and now you sit on your lame ass all day long trying to make money online. lmao.....

And don't even try to reply to this as the more you talk the more goofy you sound.
 
Insomniac said:
No, the job of an affiliate manager is to make their boss more money. If that means keeping you happy then so be it, but you are NOT their priority.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't agree with that. I deal with plenty of affiliates on a day to day basis and for the most part I am making sure that everyone is happy with how things are running and that my affiliates are running the best campaigns that they can.

It was made quite clear to me right from the get go that 80% of my time should be spent making sure that my affiliates are performing the best that they can and, depending on the volume that they're running, optimizing their campaigns and offering incentives.

During the day I'm always available to my affiliates.
 
AdJumpCM said:
I wouldn't agree with that. I deal with plenty of affiliates on a day to day basis and for the most part I am making sure that everyone is happy with how things are running and that my affiliates are running the best campaigns that they can.

It was made quite clear to me right from the get go that 80% of my time should be spent making sure that my affiliates are performing the best that they can and, depending on the volume that they're running, optimizing their campaigns and offering incentives.

During the day I'm always available to my affiliates.
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100% Agree. This is what most affiliate managers do.
 
AdJumpCM said:
I wouldn't agree with that. I deal with plenty of affiliates on a day to day basis and for the most part I am making sure that everyone is happy with how things are running and that my affiliates are running the best campaigns that they can.

It was made quite clear to me right from the get go that 80% of my time should be spent making sure that my affiliates are performing the best that they can and, depending on the volume that they're running, optimizing their campaigns and offering incentives.

During the day I'm always available to my affiliates.
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Theres a difference here, increasing the payout keeps an affiliate happier, but it does not necessarily increase volume. As you said "performing the best that they can" still comes down to volume. Your boss wants more volume, the higher the volume the more they increase payouts so the affiliate doesn't run off to another network. If an affiliate is not pushing volume you wouldn't be interested in keeping them as happy as this would make you and your boss less money.
 
Insomniac said:
Theres a difference here, increasing the payout keeps an affiliate happier, but it does not necessarily increase volume. As you said "performing the best that they can" still comes down to volume. Your boss wants more volume, the higher the volume the more they increase payouts so the affiliate doesn't run off to another network. If an affiliate is not pushing volume you wouldn't be interested in keeping them as happy as this would make you and your boss less money.
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True, though I try and get my affiliates to run exclusives as much as possible as we are able to offer higher payouts on those. And, I actually meant conversion rate by "performing the best that they can". Don't get me wrong: I'd love to see all my affiliates generating 1,000+ leads a day, but in reality that simply won't happen.

I focus a lot on service, finding the right campaigns when the affiliate wants them, and working with the affiliate to optimize those campaigns because, and any affiliate will tell you, it's hard to find a good affiliate manager who actually gives a hoot.
 
Just to add since your main network is Copeac, Mike is a great guy who goes well out of his way for his affiliates, and he well and truly understand the concept of long term gains. But at the end of the day he does what he does because of smart business decisions. He doesn't want to screw you or anyone else because he knows they will screw him back by taking their volume elsewhere.
 
Insomniac said:
Just to add since your main network is Copeac, Mike is a great guy who goes well out of his way for his affiliates, and he well and truly understand the concept of long term gains. But at the end of the day he does what he does because of smart business decisions. He doesn't want to screw you or anyone else because he knows they will screw him back by taking their volume elsewhere.
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Copeac?? I am using almost every network present out there, I stopped promoting copeac long time ago as they had issues with most of their zips and my affiliate manager told me to promote the only one's without the "^" sign. And no where in this thread I have mentioned copeac.

On that note- Are you drunk again? Or just reading the wrong posts? ha ha
 
Check your post history, you have mentioned Copeac plenty.

It's not worth my time going into a pissing match about which network likes who better either way. Trust me you'd lose.
 
Insomniac said:
Check your post history, you have mentioned Copeac plenty.

It's not worth my time going into a pissing match about which network likes who better either way. Trust me you'd lose.
Click to expand...

We are talking about this post. And how can you say that copeac is my primary network just based on the previous posts? I might have posted questions only due to the fact that I had questions regarding copeac but that does not mean I am only with copeac or just using them.
 
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