What Can The Networks Do Better? Thats Right The Networks Should Be Taking Notes!

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Aequitas

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Feb 19, 2007
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So obviously we see a lot of guys from different networks running around the forum and throughout my daily life I always think of things which the networks could do to help out us affiliates.

But I like to think of things that could not only help us affiliates but also to help the networks and the advertiser all at the same time.

So this is what this thread is about, what do you think the affiliate networks lack that could help everyone around the board out make even more money.

Here are a few things I think the networks can do better and why it could help.

1) An API and/or Post Back Systems - Yes some networks already have these features but as a programmer I honestly think they should be a common thing across all networks and here is why.

Its because with an API or Post Back system we are able to create software which can track everything from hour/minute of the impression or click right to the time/hour/day, ect... of the conversion and have it all done in pretty much real time, if not inside of an hour (Obviously there would be exceptions based upon the reporting time of the networks themselves, some offers have longer report times then others).

This information is extremely powerful to have because it allows us to easier determine the exact times of day we get the most conversions, the exact ad text, body, image, demographic, ect... which untimately leads to more sales for everyone.

Most of this is alredy trackable but I honestly think we can do so much better with it.

2) Once the above is achieved I believe that the use of affiliates wanting to put tracking pixals on the merchants sites will ultimately be a thing of the past, there really is zero need for it, the sub-id fields are more then enough to track everything we need to track (This is also more dependent on the tracking software the affiliate uses).

This isn't really a feature but more of a time saver for the networks and merchants cause they don't have to spend an ounce of time updating there sites with code from various people, it also keeps there site more secured.

3) The networks should honestly ask every merchant an extra brief question and that question is "what is the current goal of your site?".

This seems obvious or maybe the networks don't want to bother the merchants anymore then they have to but honestly a very simplistic one liner could help out that much more something along the lines of.

Our Goal: "To increase more members in there mid-30s";

They already ask which country they want the traffic from so why not try to get a brief explanation of what the merchant really wants to do with there site, where do they want to take it in the future.

This will help us target better and will help a more with conversions on the merchants end, I know a lot of us have had offers we promote taken away because the traffic wasen't good enough for them but if we knew briefly what they were expecting out of it then we could compensate for that a little more and we could improve upon that traffic.

This not only keeps our traffic a higher quality but it enables us to cut back a bit on the offers we may have taken away, it can increase the merchants goals making them happier and when they are happier the networks are happier and were happier, fuck were all just a little happier.

Thats all I'm putting down for now, I know there is a lot of obvious holes and reasons why not to but I bet for each one of those I could argue a reason why it could be just as good to have it.

So its your turn, what do you want to see the networks do just a little bit better in order to help everyone around the board out.
 
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So obviously we see a lot of guys from different networks running around the forum and throughout my daily life I always think of things which the networks could do to help out us affiliates.

But I like to think of things that could not only help us affiliates but also to help the networks and the advertiser all at the same time.

So this is what this thread is about, what do you think the affiliate networks lack that could help everyone around the board out make even more money.

Here are a few things I think the networks can do better and why it could help.

1) An API and/or Post Back Systems - Yes some networks already have these features but as a programmer I honestly think they should be a common thing across all networks and here is why.

Its because with an API or Post Back system we are able to create software which can track everything from hour/minute of the impression or click right to the time/hour/day, ect... of the conversion and have it all done in pretty much real time, if not inside of an hour (Obviously there would be exceptions based upon the reporting time of the networks themselves, some offers have longer report times then others).

This information is extremely powerful to have because it allows us to easier determine the exact times of day we get the most conversions, the exact ad text, body, image, demographic, ect... which untimately leads to more sales for everyone.

Most of this is alredy trackable but I honestly think we can do so much better with it.

2) Once the above is achieved I believe that the use of affiliates wanting to put tracking pixals on the merchants sites will ultimately be a thing of the past, there really is zero need for it, the sub-id fields are more then enough to track everything we need to track (This is also more dependent on the tracking software the affiliate uses).

This isn't really a feature but more of a time saver for the networks and merchants cause they don't have to spend an ounce of time updating there sites with code from various people, it also keeps there site more secured.

3) The networks should honestly ask every merchant an extra brief question and that question is "what is the current goal of your site?".

This seems obvious or maybe the networks don't want to bother the merchants anymore then they have to but honestly a very simplistic one liner could help out that much more something along the lines of.

Our Goal: "To increase more members in there mid-30s";

They already ask which country they want the traffic from so why not try to get a brief explanation of what the merchant really wants to do with there site, where do they want to take it in the future.

This will help us target better and will help a more with conversions on the merchants end, I know a lot of us have had offers we promote taken away because the traffic wasen't good enough for them but if we knew briefly what they were expecting out of it then we could compensate for that a little more and we could improve upon that traffic.

This not only keeps our traffic a higher quality but it enables us to cut back a bit on the offers we may have taken away, it can increase the merchants goals making them happier and when they are happier the networks are happier and were happier, fuck were all just a little happier.

Thats all I'm putting down for now, I know there is a lot of obvious holes and reasons why not to but I bet for each one of those I could argue a reason why it could be just as good to have it.

So its your turn, what do you want to see the networks do just a little bit better in order to help everyone around the board out.
To expand on #3 I would like to see network AMs have the ability to set goals within the system on either a $ or point basis.

Sort of like Loyalty points, but the AM can set tiers, the rewards etc. I find the point systems like this really motivating and rewarding.

Also stats like EPC / Conversion rate etc should all be open for every one to see. I hate asking AMs for these stats and getting slow or no replies.
 
+Reps

ali-g-respect.jpg
 
I'm not a pimping affiliate marketer or anything, but I do enough to know that I love postbacks. I have my own set of hacked together scripts for tracking and optimizing my campaigns, and being able to integrate with the affiliate network automatically is so fucking convenient and sexy. Every network ought to have a convenient form for setting a global postback URL (NeverBlue does, and it's one of the reasons I stick to them a little too hard). Otherwise I end up doing bullshit, like writing scripts to login and scrape my stats.

One thing I would like is some custom reporting specific to different campaigns, especially lead campaigns. For instance, if I'm sending leads to a dating site, it would be nice to know how many are actually converting to sales on their backend, so I know if I'm sending them crap traffic. That way I'm not surprised when my AM tells me to knock it off. The current system where eventually the advertiser whines to the network, and then the network whines to me is silly and indirect. Why not tell me:
Your ratio of sales / leads : 2%
network average: 2.5%
minimum-before-we-tell-you-to-fuck-off: 1%
???
That would be the numbers behind "tell us what your goals are".
 
To expand on #3 I would like to see network AMs have the ability to set goals within the system on either a $ or point basis.

Sort of like Loyalty points, but the AM can set tiers, the rewards etc. I find the point systems like this really motivating and rewarding.

Also stats like EPC / Conversion rate etc should all be open for every one to see. I hate asking AMs for these stats and getting slow or no replies.

DEFINITELY on both of those. I absolutely LOVE being able to see the EPC of an offer before I go in and the number of clicks the offer has generated.

As far as the points thing, I think that's a great idea as well. An AM can set rewards for different affiliates: IE- new affiliate, he can offer him $10 bonus on first $500 of revenue or something like that, and do it on a case by case basis.
 
Awesome suggestions, I just have a few more to ad. I love the networks that show EPC, however, it can be VERY deceiving and can cost you in testing.

Besides just EPC I would like to see how its being promoted, search, social, web, or email.

For example I saw an offer with a sick EPC tried to run it on social got slaughtered. Asked my AM WTF and was told that the EPC is high from one guy who's been running it incentivized.

Just my Duce Cents.
 
What I think should definitely be shown is the max payout for the offer. Meaning how high the network could pay us for that offer with sufficient traffic volume and lead quality. Personally, it would be easier for me to draw up calculations if I had these numbers in front of me when choosing offers.
 
What I think should definitely be shown is the max payout for the offer. Meaning how high the network could pay us for that offer with sufficient traffic volume and lead quality. Personally, it would be easier for me to draw up calculations if I had these numbers in front of me when choosing offers.

Nice, that adds a level of translucency (not totally transparent yet) that would be welcome in the industry. We all know that networks take a big margin for being the middle man, I don't think it offends anyone ... but heckling with your AMs (peons) for a bump is a terrible system.

Networks, set tiered goals & show payouts on the front end!!!!

Is that going to be an ROIshare thing? As a new network, you'll need something to set yourself apart from the rest of the competition (and the WF lynch mob chasing you doesn't count).

@Aequitas - the api is so stupid simple from a programmers perspective that any network not currently doing it should be bitch slapped. That's neverblue's biggest asset in my books.
 
Nice, that adds a level of translucency (not totally transparent yet) that would be welcome in the industry. We all know that networks take a big margin for being the middle man, I don't think it offends anyone ... but heckling with your AMs (peons) for a bump is a terrible system.

Networks, set tiered goals & show payouts on the front end!!!!

Is that going to be an ROIshare thing? As a new network, you'll need something to set yourself apart from the rest of the competition (and the WF lynch mob chasing you doesn't count).

@Aequitas - the api is so stupid simple from a programmers perspective that any network not currently doing it should be bitch slapped. That's neverblue's biggest asset in my books.

(I'll try to keep mention of my network as minimum as possible to reduce further lynching)

We will have that element + many more that have been mentioned here and some that haven't. Another thing that I believe would be important to show is breaking down EPC's by : Search, Web and Email. Not just cluster it all together. The EPC's should also be freely visible as Sohan had commented. Networks really need to provide affiliates with as much information about the offer.
Heck, I'm surprised networks have yet to try to draw up scrubbing/shaving figures for each offer. With smart network pixel placement, they shouldn't have a problem being able to come up with a figure after couple thousand transactions on each offer. This I believe will really set the bar for affiliate networks.
 
this is great... i'm big into building what Affiliates tell me they need.. That is how Motive ended up with our own system Affiliates asked us for features that Direct Track did not have so started building them... So this is my kind of thread, a few things mentioned already have me thinking...

thanks !!!!
 
Two thoughts I have on comments on this thread:

EPC breakdown by promotion type: While we do show EPC on our offers, it is a horribly flawed metric and to this day I'm not quite sure why affiliates put much stock in it. Your performance on an offer really doesn't correlate to how an offer performs for all affiliates, especially when you consider that an EPC can be destroyed by a few PPV affiliates or artificially inflated by incentive traffic. Breaking down the EPC by promotion type would give the appearance the EPC is more valid, when it wouldn't really make much difference. There are too many affiliates that use whatever link they feel like (i.e. they might use a banner URL for PPC traffic) and as a result the data would be just as useless.

Showing maximum rate: There is no network that will ever show that. There are many business reasons why maximum rates are not public and never will be. While I could elaborate, I want to keep this post short and just pull in a real world analogy: you don't see "the minimum we'll take" posted at car dealerships, furniture stores, or even farmer's markets.
 
@MaxSteve

Guilty of using whatever link I want on some networks... thats why Neverblue by far has the best Interface around... easy to find links... rotate banner... API... pixels etc.

EPC is absolutely a flawed metric, but it is better than nothing. Maybe conversion rates will be good, although those might be deceiving too.

Perhaps a new metric. When testing an offer you just need a "starting" point so if there are things to shoot for either an EPC or Conversion Rate then you know you are heading in the right direction.
 
Two thoughts I have on comments on this thread:

EPC breakdown by promotion type: While we do show EPC on our offers, it is a horribly flawed metric and to this day I'm not quite sure why affiliates put much stock in it. Your performance on an offer really doesn't correlate to how an offer performs for all affiliates, especially when you consider that an EPC can be destroyed by a few PPV affiliates or artificially inflated by incentive traffic. Breaking down the EPC by promotion type would give the appearance the EPC is more valid, when it wouldn't really make much difference. There are too many affiliates that use whatever link they feel like (i.e. they might use a banner URL for PPC traffic) and as a result the data would be just as useless.

Showing maximum rate: There is no network that will ever show that. There are many business reasons why maximum rates are not public and never will be. While I could elaborate, I want to keep this post short and just pull in a real world analogy: you don't see "the minimum we'll take" posted at car dealerships, furniture stores, or even farmer's markets.

- I believe that networks should enforce affiliates to use correct links. If there are search links, and you are grabbing email links for your search campaign; then there should be consequences for repeat offenders.
Also, EPC shouldn't be taken of the calculations of everyone's statistics. I would set the bar at 10/leads a day, and count any affiliate that generates at least 10/leads a day to be counted towards the network EPC for the offer. At least then, you would filter out all the non-sense traffic from newbies. Unfortunely if there is a large number of incentive leads going on, then the best you could do is seek and destroy to keep that EPC number under accuracy.

Though the EPC still wouldn't be that accurate, it would be a MUCH better estimate that it is at the moment.

- Yes, that is quite understandable; but at this moment, it's quite easy to figure out when a network is holding back more commission than another network. Network's share over 80% of the same exact offers at one point or another, and if one network is offering $40/lead; and another network for the same exact offer/advertiser is only offering $30/lead at tops; then it is obvious that the 2nd network is taking in a bit more commission than the first. Also it is apparant that network's take in 15%-35% commission per offer, so it's not that secretive. One last thing is that majority of affiliates will not care how much commission the network is taking as long as you are paying a reasonable amount for the offer (competitively priced), and they have a good ROI on their campaigns. Networks are there to be the scape goat of any problems, and they quite well deserve that designated 15%-35%; I can't complain as an affiliate.
 
Showing maximum rate: There is no network that will ever show that. There are many business reasons why maximum rates are not public and never will be. While I could elaborate, I want to keep this post short and just pull in a real world analogy: you don't see "the minimum we'll take" posted at car dealerships, furniture stores, or even farmer's markets.

ever heard of carmax.com?

You absolutely can be more transparent than the muddy water your currently serving us. Aff. networks need to step up and conduct business in the same fashion that the rest of the world. If they can't evolve to what the customer wants then they will eventually die off.

The current system is straight up nepotism and greed.
 
@Aequitas - the api is so stupid simple from a programmers perspective that any network not currently doing it should be bitch slapped. That's neverblue's biggest asset in my books.

Guilty of using whatever link I want on some networks... thats why Neverblue by far has the best Interface around... easy to find links... rotate banner... API... pixels etc.

Don't get me wrong guys, Neverblue is a killer company to deal with and honestly if I lived 1400 KM south of where I do I'd be going to visit them on a weekly basis just because.

However I've been a big fan of MaxBounty since 2007, they are very respectful, perfect on-time payments, never an issue, (The same with neverblue haven't heard any payment issues with them).

Anyway the point to this is that honestly 2 of the really great networks around that understand the post-back/API and are much better at business then a lot of the other guys would hands down be MaxBounty and Neverblue.

They still got a lot of work to do in order to really make things that much better but those two companies are definately (At least in my mind) well on there way to being the best 2 to ever deal with.

Even when people try to say Neverblue is better then Max or Max is better then Neverblue, its honestly one hell of a close match, both are great.
 
ever heard of carmax.com?

You absolutely can be more transparent than the muddy water your currently serving us. Aff. networks need to step up and conduct business in the same fashion that the rest of the world. If they can't evolve to what the customer wants then they will eventually die off.

The current system is straight up nepotism and greed.
I'm really not quite sure where anything is "muddy". Networks post a public rate. Affiliates are free to compare public rates network-to-network and pick the best rate and/or negotiate a better one with their network. This is standard sales, and IS done in the rest of the world.

BTW, "no haggle" prices (carmax) are not the same as "the minimum we'll take". I've bought my most recent vehicle from a no-haggle dealership and I did negotiate for a lower price from them.
 
I agree that EPC is a flawed metric, at least from a network standpoint. It is next to impossible to keep the EPC a pure number, so I always tell my guys that they need to establish their own EPC. IMO, the network EPC gives affiliates an easy way to decide that an offer isn't working for them before they even get a chance to optimize the campaign. IE: "You said this would get me $2 a click, and I'm getting $0.50 so I'm gonna drop it."

In regards to Postback, the majority of DirectTrack networks support this with Affiliate Webservices / SOAP API. The main problem seems to be that most affiliates don't have a clue how to use it, and to be completely honest I don't even know how it works myself. I wish that we had a system as simple as Neverblue's where you just enter your postback URL and you are good to go, but for now that's not the case.

If somebody on here knows how to use SOAP API and setup Postback from DT networks, please post it on this thread for everyone's benefit!
 
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