Bizopps WTF
- Thread starter allcelldeals
- Start date
You guys need to have a backup in place, I keep saying this and I keep seeing moaning and whining about the same crap.
You do not need Google Biz Opps alone to make money.
If for no other reason than the assumption that the owners behind ALL the google offers are shaving leads and fucking us up the ass, invest in a generic LP that can be routed to any of the other Biz Opps FTW. There are a lot of dogs out there, but also a lot of gems.
You do not need Google Biz Opps alone to make money.
If for no other reason than the assumption that the owners behind ALL the google offers are shaving leads and fucking us up the ass, invest in a generic LP that can be routed to any of the other Biz Opps FTW. There are a lot of dogs out there, but also a lot of gems.
agreed. All to often they blame affiliates for "poor quality leads" which sometimes is true I'm sure, but retention rates would be a lot better if there was a quality product behind the scenes.
Exactly...and it would seem that the immediate access instead of shipping could kill the retention as well, if they are giving away everything at once, or people can tell its bullshit as soon as they log on. Why not ship it, stretch that shit (longer retention) and include some half way decent fucking information over the course of several cd roms or something. Fuck don't be so damn greedy. How much can you get CD's and shit printed up for in bulk? Like fucking pennies.
Just sayin.
Alot of good comments here. I think most of us here know more about how to build an offer for an advertiser than advertisers do. Think about it- lower payout, say $15, but NO rebill? Or upgrade OPTION. Make the damn thing more legit. I dont remember any of us getting any action on the rebills...thats all gravy for the advertiser. And why rebill a bizopp anyways? What sort of info do they need to get on an ongoing basis?
If they had online tools, ok...such as ppc tools, kw generators etc etc , but otherwise, give them the make money online info bullshit and move on down the road.
They can always market to them for other shit anyways via email and resell the email et c etc..
WHY the fuck dont other advertisers expand and IMPROVE on something that works??
If they had online tools, ok...such as ppc tools, kw generators etc etc , but otherwise, give them the make money online info bullshit and move on down the road.
They can always market to them for other shit anyways via email and resell the email et c etc..
WHY the fuck dont other advertisers expand and IMPROVE on something that works??
This may be true. But in my tests, there's a drastic difference in LP ctr Google biz opps, and generic biz opps.
If they want to prevent more cancellations, how about giving us some details of the product so we're not marketing in to the abyss?
There's clearly room on the market for a quality Google bizopp. I see no reason why they can't keep a rebill. Just get enough fucking content to justify one. Then tell us a bit about it so we're not all "umm, like, I post links, you can too".
There's clearly room on the market for a quality Google bizopp. I see no reason why they can't keep a rebill. Just get enough fucking content to justify one. Then tell us a bit about it so we're not all "umm, like, I post links, you can too".
I think this is a great discussion. It highlights the fact that networks and advertisers need a much tighter relationship. Or publishers and advertisers if you work direct like us.
Advertisers occasionally feel that networks don't really listen or act on their requests to help increase lead quality. So they feel their only recourse is to start shaving leads. Ask a network to take a lower payout and the vast majority of them will tell you to take a hike then move on to other advertisers.
I feel networks act like this because they're ultimately afraid of losing publishers. Asking a publisher to take a lower payout can be the kiss of death for inexperienced or clueless AM's.
And because many advertisers couldn't give two shits about the affiliate relationship, they start shaving away until their ROI gets back to "normal".
So the solution to this problem is better communication with all parties involved. The end goal should always be a quality lead for a fair price. I can count maybe 2 or 3 networks that do a good job of this. I know A4D has addressed it a few times in WF.
Another option is to work directly with advertisers who have an interest in maintaining good relationships with publishers. There are advantages and disadvantages to each option, but at least you can get way more information from the advertiser direct.
Advertisers occasionally feel that networks don't really listen or act on their requests to help increase lead quality. So they feel their only recourse is to start shaving leads. Ask a network to take a lower payout and the vast majority of them will tell you to take a hike then move on to other advertisers.
I feel networks act like this because they're ultimately afraid of losing publishers. Asking a publisher to take a lower payout can be the kiss of death for inexperienced or clueless AM's.
And because many advertisers couldn't give two shits about the affiliate relationship, they start shaving away until their ROI gets back to "normal".
So the solution to this problem is better communication with all parties involved. The end goal should always be a quality lead for a fair price. I can count maybe 2 or 3 networks that do a good job of this. I know A4D has addressed it a few times in WF.
Another option is to work directly with advertisers who have an interest in maintaining good relationships with publishers. There are advantages and disadvantages to each option, but at least you can get way more information from the advertiser direct.
So these advertisers who pay on a per sale basis can decide to change the business model and say "fuck you publishers, thanks for the customers but we are going to wait until this starts making us money on the backend before we consider paying out what we owe."
It must be nice to have the best of both worlds. I hope they enjoy the free customers we are sending them in the hope that one day their fucking business model backs out.
Dickheads.
It must be nice to have the best of both worlds. I hope they enjoy the free customers we are sending them in the hope that one day their fucking business model backs out.
Dickheads.
Yeah but don't all the networks out there worth mentioning have some form of subid tracking? And if so, then the advertiser is obligated to implement it on his end to report back to the network so they can properly give out the comission to the marketer generating the lead.
That said, I guess it then becomes really easy to cath those sneeky bastards red handed (from a network's stand point). Just jenerate 10-50 or so subids on your end and manually "convert" for each one. Now you know that each of those subids should have a conversion attached and if you're advertiser reports otherwise than boom: you got him!
I'm thinking that this would be common practice for networks (especially for offers that are getting tons of traffic) since advertiser scrubbing means the network is left high and dry to.
So in my view, if there's advertiser scrubbing going on for any significant ammount of time or $, the network's proly' in on it.
What's the alternative for them though?
If the advertiser is scrubbing to make a reasonable ROI, playing fair and crediting all leads is going to put them in a loss. That's obviously not sustainable for these guys and they're gonna drop the offer in a shot.
Common sense says the best solution for both parties is for the advertiser to put together a better product with "rebill value". Less cancellations, less unsatisfied customers, and more material for the affiliate to work with.
It can't be hard for these guys to provide some useful material that actually does help people looking to get in to Google. With the 1000's of leads being put through every day, they'd only need a fraction of the profit to outsource the creation of a course that actually DOES offer some rebill incentive.
Affiliates are driving pretty much all of the traffic in the first place. Scrubbing leads in such a big way is biting the hand that feeds them. It's total bullshit. It might be part of the business plan, and part of the necessary financing - but if people are cancelling the rebill, maybe they should rethink the structure of their offer to retain customers rather than eating up more of the misled public to balance the books.
If the advertiser is scrubbing to make a reasonable ROI, playing fair and crediting all leads is going to put them in a loss. That's obviously not sustainable for these guys and they're gonna drop the offer in a shot.
Common sense says the best solution for both parties is for the advertiser to put together a better product with "rebill value". Less cancellations, less unsatisfied customers, and more material for the affiliate to work with.
It can't be hard for these guys to provide some useful material that actually does help people looking to get in to Google. With the 1000's of leads being put through every day, they'd only need a fraction of the profit to outsource the creation of a course that actually DOES offer some rebill incentive.
Affiliates are driving pretty much all of the traffic in the first place. Scrubbing leads in such a big way is biting the hand that feeds them. It's total bullshit. It might be part of the business plan, and part of the necessary financing - but if people are cancelling the rebill, maybe they should rethink the structure of their offer to retain customers rather than eating up more of the misled public to balance the books.
It only takes one new offer to come on to the market offering the same payout and scrubbing less - people here are knowledgeable enough to switch and move pretty damn quickly. They rely so heavily on their affiliates for traffic that it would put them out of business pretty damn quickly.
They might get away with that scrubbing while all of us are still bitching about low conversion rates but running the exact same traffic to them. They'll learn pretty quickly when a bunch of high flying affiliate switch to their rivals.
Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be many serious rivals at the moment.
The Google bizopp market could really do with a kick up the ass from an advertiser that knows how to appeal to the mainstream AND how to package a good subscription based product.
They might get away with that scrubbing while all of us are still bitching about low conversion rates but running the exact same traffic to them. They'll learn pretty quickly when a bunch of high flying affiliate switch to their rivals.
Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be many serious rivals at the moment.
The Google bizopp market could really do with a kick up the ass from an advertiser that knows how to appeal to the mainstream AND how to package a good subscription based product.
^^ agree.
But to be totall honest - do you think an advertiser gives two shits if my traffic doesnt back out? Doubt it very much.
On the flipside do you think I give a shit if they cant make it back out at their end?
But to be totall honest - do you think an advertiser gives two shits if my traffic doesnt back out? Doubt it very much.
On the flipside do you think I give a shit if they cant make it back out at their end?
But they need to start caring that their affiliates are getting screwed over because the affiliates are driving the sales. If we're not making money, we're gonna switch or drop the vertical. The day they start wrestling in the Adwords graveyard for themselves will be the day that they can afford to not rely on us.
There's clearly massive mainstream demand for a bizopp that jumps on the Google brand. I'm pretty convinced that the advertiser's biggest problem is cancellations. There's no shortage of volume.
If they focus on retaining 20% more customers instead of shaving 20% more leads - it's a better long term prospect for everybody.
There's clearly massive mainstream demand for a bizopp that jumps on the Google brand. I'm pretty convinced that the advertiser's biggest problem is cancellations. There's no shortage of volume.
If they focus on retaining 20% more customers instead of shaving 20% more leads - it's a better long term prospect for everybody.
Conversions have sucked the past few days.
The advertisers have got to see that they're screwing themselves over in the long run. If they start shaving, affiliates will just move to the next hot rebill and in the long term, the offer starts to die.
What this industry needs is for an advertiser to step up with a new bizopp that hasn't been beaten to death.
As for the double LP- maybe if the advertisers had chosen a better business model from the outset, they wouldn't have issues with 2 offers on 1 LP.
The advertisers have got to see that they're screwing themselves over in the long run. If they start shaving, affiliates will just move to the next hot rebill and in the long term, the offer starts to die.
What this industry needs is for an advertiser to step up with a new bizopp that hasn't been beaten to death.
As for the double LP- maybe if the advertisers had chosen a better business model from the outset, they wouldn't have issues with 2 offers on 1 LP.
Many of these guys are doing their own media buys and generating several thousand sales/day. They'll survive.
Yes, this is one piece of the puzzle... Or how about a relatively low initial CPA, then a progressively larger CPA on the residual/rebill? I've run this by our partners in the past and everyone agrees that this is a great way to make sure everyone wins (from a quality and overall CPA standpoint). But this puts a huge negative cash burden on the publisher if it takes more than 15 days for rebills to start coming through. And an even bigger burden if they find out their lead quality was shit.
Networks aren't in on it... But they may turn a blind eye or push it down the priority list of advertisers to promote. Some will definitely drop those advertisers though.