Client Work and NDAs

AngryFiver

AngryFiver

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Nov 14, 2014
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How many of you who do client work sign NDAs?

I've had a couple of clients now require me to sign them (usually right after they send them over and before I can even have a chance to read it).

My stance on this is, "Go fuck yourself."

For one, I'm not a lawyer and why would I sign something that I can't 100% understand because it's written in legalese? And unless it's a large contract, why would I hire a lawyer to read over the NDA for your 2 hour/week project? 99% of the NDAs are also one sided. They only benefit the client and they have ridiculous terms on there like 5 year periods where they can sue you if you do something against the NDA.

Who the hell wants that hanging over their head? Not me.
 


My stance is, "you're a fucken idiot if you think you're going to / capable of enforcing this contract, but sure, I'll sign it in MS Paint and send it via EchoSign if let makes you send me your money".

Not to be a dick, but yeah, that's my feelings on NDAs. Inexperienced business folk trying to be smart, so fuck it, it's easier just to sign the damn things to please them. 95% of the time, it's not like they're enforceable anyway.
 
Just create your own NDA, sign that, and send it to the client.

Tell them that you're not a lawyer and don't have time to read through every NDA. If they want some sort of protection, then that document should cover it. If it doesn't, then they're not worth dealing with.

*Also make sure you have some sort of clause in your NDA that states the agreement does not cover common knowledge, etc.
 
PS. Make sure anything you sign never contains a non-compete clause though. That one could fuck you in the long run.

For the most part, don't worry about NDAs. It's mainly a bunch of retards who think they have amazing multi-billion dollar ideas they can't share with you until you sign some form. Then when you sign the form, and they tell you the idea, you realize just how shitty of an idea it is. Happens in 98% of cases.
 
If it's really just a NDA I sign and move on expecting it. There are some paranoid fuckers out there and I don't have any intention of reaping $ from clients IP or any malicious intent so to me they are a no brainer to sign.

I've put them in front of more than a few people as well, so that I speak transparently about some relationships for instance, and imo they help more than hurt all around.

If it's a NDA/non circumvent/non compete that's a whole other story and outside of broker agreements I look at non circs/comps very closely to make sure signing doesn't fuck with my interests. Like Kenny and Kiopa said, sometimes lawyers will draw up shit that include things you already know or monetize.
 
What Kiopa_Matt said. Most NDAs and non-competes aren't even enforced in most states. It's just bullshit shitty businessmen use to avoid doing real work like actually building a defensible business outside of courts and patents.
 
Jeez you guys are harsh. If you freelance/get hired by any corporation/bigger business you're going to have to sign a NCC and NDA. It's pretty standard and takes about 30 seconds to sign in a PDF program. It's usually just apart of their process to get everyone to sign them.
 
Save your semantics objections for stuff that actually has compliance overhead....or better yet throw in a compliance fee at your full hourly rate. (worst case they just pay, 2nd worst case you have something to negotiate with) - No you won't lose customers over it. Its just part of doing everyday business with the professionally professionals of the world.

Non competes and vendor diversity policies where you actually have to jump through compliance hoops are really the only things worth arguing over.


Pro Tip - get adobe echo sign to avoid the whole printing and scanning time vortex.
 
Kiopa_Matt said:
PS. Make sure anything you sign never contains a non-compete clause though. That one could fuck you in the long run.
Click to expand...

Depends on where you're located and what industry. Non-competes for tech in California are rarely enforced.
 
I keep my NDAs fairly simple, but yeah I make subcontractors sign it.
I go through dozens and dozens of subcontractors in a given year and having them sign the NDA has saved my ass several times.

In fact, I only hire the subcontractor if my NDA can (easily) be legally enforced against them, which for the most part means they are from either Canada or the US.

I'll be the first one to admit that they tend to be one sided, but fuck you - I have more to lose. All my NDAs are written by my lawyer so that if I am too lazy to sign my end and send it back to the subcontractor, they are still valid as I do not promise any obligations.
 
Kiopa_Matt said:
My stance is, "you're a fucken idiot if you think you're going to / capable of enforcing this contract, but sure, I'll sign it in MS Paint and send it via EchoSign if let makes you send me your money".

Not to be a dick, but yeah, that's my feelings on NDAs. Inexperienced business folk trying to be smart, so fuck it, it's easier just to sign the damn things to please them. 95% of the time, it's not like they're enforceable anyway.
Click to expand...

Kiopa_Matt said:
PS. Make sure anything you sign never contains a non-compete clause though. That one could fuck you in the long run.

For the most part, don't worry about NDAs. It's mainly a bunch of retards who think they have amazing multi-billion dollar ideas they can't share with you until you sign some form. Then when you sign the form, and they tell you the idea, you realize just how shitty of an idea it is. Happens in 98% of cases.
Click to expand...

Wow. Way to belittle your clients. They're just a bunch of fucking retarded idiots with shitty ideas after all :eek7:

There's a phrase I'm looking for here... what is it? Oh, I know...

Pot meet kettle.
 
To answer the OP. Yes, I sign NDAs with the people who's projects I want to work on. Very rarely do you have someone approach you with "I've got this great fucking idea that's going to make a billion, but you've got to sign all this shit before I tell you anything about it". If that's the case, they aren't a client yet are they?

If someone wants to work with you, they'll at least approach you with some details and a brief. If you're interested, that's when the contracts and NCCs/NDAs come out as part of the deal. Not before hand.
 
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Fatbat said:
Wow. Way to belittle your clients. They're just a bunch of fucking retarded idiots with shitty ideas after all :eek7:

There's a phrase I'm looking for here... what is it? Oh, I know...

Pot meet kettle.
Click to expand...

heh, if you only knew what my going rate was. I'm not hurting for work, don't worry about it. :)

No, it's nothing to do with belittling clients, and if anything, is the other way around. They belittle me by requiring me to sign some retarded NDA they can't enforce. "I'll let you take care of me, but only if you sign this legal document first", type of thing. Don't do that. I'll take care of you like a champ, but don't treat me like a peasant.
 
Kiopa_Matt said:
^^ You sign NCCs? I hope it's multi-year contracts you're signing.
Click to expand...

I do as well often if I'm not at risk of competing naturally, which is quite rare given the nature of why we're working together.

If I gen a lead for an insurance comp they aren't going to ask me to stop making insurance leads after them and sign a contract saying so, they're going to make sure I don't use all the internal system/relationship/model knowledge I have from working with them to open shop and/or in some way compete with them. At least thats the vibe of the NCC's I've seen and signed.
 
Kiopa_Matt said:
heh, if you only knew what my going rate was. I'm not hurting for work, don't worry about it. :)

No, it's nothing to do with belittling clients, and if anything, is the other way around. They belittle me by requiring me to sign some retarded NDA they can't enforce. "I'll let you take care of me, but only if you sign this legal document first", type of thing. Don't do that.
Click to expand...

I'm not comparing dick size dude. I've reread your posts and I get what you're saying. Sometimes you get creeps coming at you with wacky ideas, but I don't usually even give people like that the time of day, let alone enter into discussions about signing some stupid NDA.

Sorry for jumping all over you. I was a out of line.
 
Kiopa_Matt said:
^^ You sign NCCs? I hope it's multi-year contracts you're signing.
Click to expand...

Usually year long contracts that continue in perpetuity if not renegotiated or terminated. The NCC is essentially there so I don't go starting up the exact same business myself competing with my client. It's not that I can't go work for someone in the same industry, since most of the shit I do, and have done for years, is in casino/poker/sports betting. That would be foolish.
 
An NDA is enforceable but you need to have the financial means to do so, and you need to make sure that the jurisdiction your contractor is in is a jurisdiction that will enforce your agreement.

The enforceability of non competes also varies on the jurisdiction you're in. In California non competes are generally not enforced by the courts, but for example in Florida it is common for courts to enforce non competes.

There's A LOT of ignorance in this thread. If you want to run a real business with employees rather than being a small time hustler, you should become a little more familiar with this stuff.
 
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