And this is just the beginning... Colorado is making so much money from cannabis it's having to give some back to citizens - Americas - World - The Independent
Colorado is making so much money from weed it's having to give some back to citizens
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Colorado legislators deserve zero praise. They have no business taxing weed sales in the first place.
Legalization is not a solution. As long as politicians can legislate and tax weed, they can artificially increase its price, curtail distribution and wipe it out on a whim.
I remember when a pack of cigarettes was $0.25. Its current price is not due to inflation. It's due to taxes. And if a charlatan like Bloomberg wants to wipe cigarettes out, he can do it.
That's legalization.
Praising Colorado legislators for giving some tax revenue back is like being a slave and praising your owner for giving you an extra 10-minute break. You're still in chains.
Legalization is not a solution. As long as politicians can legislate and tax weed, they can artificially increase its price, curtail distribution and wipe it out on a whim.
I remember when a pack of cigarettes was $0.25. Its current price is not due to inflation. It's due to taxes. And if a charlatan like Bloomberg wants to wipe cigarettes out, he can do it.
That's legalization.
Praising Colorado legislators for giving some tax revenue back is like being a slave and praising your owner for giving you an extra 10-minute break. You're still in chains.
What is then?
You'd rather go back to making it illegal and treating weed smokers like criminals?
No they won't wipe it out on a whim like you said, because now it's bringing in serious money. Will they wipe out tobacco? No, when big money is involved, you can be sure that they will protect it.
No. I much prefer that people do whatever they want to do without the threat of fines, censure, imprisonment and physical injury.
I prefer decriminalization. Legalization is much different than decriminalization. The former implies that a person can still be fined, censured, imprisoned and injured by "authorities" if he acts in a way that has been deemed criminal.
For example, I can smoke in Colorado without fear. Recreational use is legal. But can I sell to others? No. Can I possess more than 1 ounce? Absolutely not (unless I show medical need, in which case I can carry 2 ounces - but no more than that). Can I smoke if I'm 3 months shy of turning 21? No. Can I grow? Sure, but only 6 plants - and only 3 can be mature.
These are all arbitrary laws that prevent people from doing what they want. Each one is a shackle. Worse, every arbitrary law is subject to change on the whim of politicians.
Suppose a politician receives a huge "donation" from a tobacco lobbyist. He might be inclined to support a law that says Colorado residents can only carry 0.5 ounces rather than 1 ounce. Or that they can only grow 3 plants with 1 mature instead of 6 with 3. Etc. Etc.
That is legalization.
Decriminalization eliminates that nonsense. Think of it this way: there are no criminal penalties for breathing. You can do it whenever you want, wherever you want and as much as you want. That's how I prefer weed to be treated.
Here's a good overview of the topic:
There's a big difference between legalization and decriminalization | The Daily Caller
Keep in mind that politicians are champing at the bit to legalize weed. That alone should make you suspicious of legalization.
Colorado legislators deserve zero praise. They have no business taxing weed sales in the first place.
Legalization is not a solution. As long as politicians can legislate and tax weed, they can artificially increase its price, curtail distribution and wipe it out on a whim.
I remember when a pack of cigarettes was $0.25. Its current price is not due to inflation. It's due to taxes. And if a charlatan like Bloomberg wants to wipe cigarettes out, he can do it.
That's legalization.
Praising Colorado legislators for giving some tax revenue back is like being a slave and praising your owner for giving you an extra 10-minute break. You're still in chains.
I remember a friend of a friend told me a few years back that all told with leccy, expensive nutes etc. one could produce top shelf for under £2 an ounce, growing on a very small scale. I know that it's very expensive in Colorado at the moment but that's supply and demand, along with the fact that although being legal it is not normalised in other senses yet (production, insurance, banking facilities etc.)
In Cali they voted to keep it illegal ('medical') basically for tax reasons. Which leaves a crazy situation where some counties will allow something like 18 mature plants per cardholder - so they grow them big like this:
Although the local market is saturated the margins are still absolutely ridiculous because of the demand elsewhere, which comes down to it's legal status. And until it's laundered that money remains untaxed, while in the meantime the public coffers are raided to enforce the status quo.
Or take Amsterdam where the coffeeshop situation is 'tolerated' (and taxed at 100% btw, yet prices are similar to the States) but as an owner you either buy from gangsters - the same people running the guns, coke and girls - OR you produce inhouse and run the very real risk of hard time.
In both situations the grey areas mean that people are still going to prison for a plant that occurs naturally. And the artificial factor affecting price is legal status, not taxation, any more than it affects any other commodity anyway. Tobacco is kind of a bad example because it's much more difficult to produce in the forms it's consumed in than cannabis is.. People can brew beer at home but are generally happy to buy it from the shops despite ridiculous tax.
Legalisation across the board is the only solution.
Dude, you don't even understand the terminology. You've got your terms completely backwards. Decriminalization is what we have in Spain, and Canada, as in, it's not legal, only overlooked by the authorities with much more important things to do than arrest people for small time personal use and possession. Legal is when you can do whatever the fuck you want, but still within the government's terms.
None of the above is what you're looking for. You're looking for the intrinsic right to do what you want, when you want. Like breathing air. That's a pipe dream that ain't gonna happen.
I don't buy that man. £2 an ounce? After how many crops? There's serious setup costs to any size indoor op, and even the small number of plants that I grow each year in dirt in the sun suck up more than £2 of water and nutes per ounce each summer.
You may be correct. If so, help me out with the terminology.
What is the proper term used to describe the elimination of all criminal penalties and fines pertaining to - and the right to regulate or tax - a particular activity? Legalization isn't the right term. It sounds like you're saying decriminalization isn't the right term. If that's true, I'm at a loss.
The author of the dailycaller article (linked above) had this to say:
Do you know the term I'm looking for? If so, please share it with me.
Thats because you want decent weed to smoke. I'm sure you can grow some dirt ass shit for under £2/lb.
I support legalization since it limits the number of people that go to jail for stupid shit (that's over $35k a year in tax expenses -- a cost that should never exist to begin with).
The fact that the government can regulate the price is also a negligible point. If it makes sense for people to sell "black market weed" at $350 an ounce today, then it will make sense when weed's legal and taxed above $350.
Weed prices won't go above a certain price, however they can get lower with legalization and economies of scale.
The fact that the government can regulate the price is also a negligible point. If it makes sense for people to sell "black market weed" at $350 an ounce today, then it will make sense when weed's legal and taxed above $350.
Weed prices won't go above a certain price, however they can get lower with legalization and economies of scale.
This x 1000. The thought of legalizing something to allow the use of it is a contradiction. This the same as the free trade contradiction. Trade in itself is free, so why do we have "free trade"?
It's basic math. If you have something that is free and then unfree it and then pass a law to free it again you're attempting to get back to the original simplicity while creating layers of bullshit in between. Drugs used to be free 100 years ago. Now we created a law to say they're unfree. Now we're creating laws to make them free again. If you're passing a law to free an unfree then you're canceling both out. But this doesn't happen when we legalize illegal things. We create even more layers of bullshit and complexity because the goal isn't to set something free, the goal is to further control. People are so freaking stupid.
Here in WA the politicians have been so derailed by their free cash cow it's far cheaper on the street here because of the taxes.
They split it into 3 licenses, growing, processing, retail sales, each segment is heavily regulated and taxed by the state.
Not only that, if you produce a product and it gets fucked up you still pay the taxes on what you produced, not what makes it to market.
Now that the state's getting so much money from recreational sales they're putting together plans to go after medical marijuana and gut it completely to push people to their tax funnel.
They're propping up the black market as much as ever by keeping the prices so inflated. But it's a lot less risky to grow now so there's pressure as more is produced outside the regulations.
There was a story on the news a couple days ago where the cops are looking to auction off weed from busted grows rather than destroy it.
Here if you have a medical card outdoor bud is $450/quarter lb, indoor top shelf is $600/qp, and there's popcorn bud/sugar trim for $400/lb while recreational retail charges over $300/ounce...
They split it into 3 licenses, growing, processing, retail sales, each segment is heavily regulated and taxed by the state.
Not only that, if you produce a product and it gets fucked up you still pay the taxes on what you produced, not what makes it to market.
Now that the state's getting so much money from recreational sales they're putting together plans to go after medical marijuana and gut it completely to push people to their tax funnel.
They're propping up the black market as much as ever by keeping the prices so inflated. But it's a lot less risky to grow now so there's pressure as more is produced outside the regulations.
There was a story on the news a couple days ago where the cops are looking to auction off weed from busted grows rather than destroy it.
Here if you have a medical card outdoor bud is $450/quarter lb, indoor top shelf is $600/qp, and there's popcorn bud/sugar trim for $400/lb while recreational retail charges over $300/ounce...
Haha yup. A few of the homies are moving pounds/week (illegally) because apparently law makers and politicians don't understand simple economics. Why pay fucking $20/gram when you can get it for $8 from the guy down the street? Why pay $300/oz when you can cop one from Bob for $120? His shit is better anyways, because his grower has been doing it for 30+ years and has the process down to a science (and his clients move weight far more quickly and efficiently than dispensaries - why would he switch over to the "legal" alternative and put himself on the State's radar?).
It's hilarious.
What's not hilarious is that this fact goes over the heads of most people. Their understanding of common sense economics is so absurdly dismal, they just stare at me blankly when I try to explain that the black market for weed will never disappear, and how "legalization" is just another hustle by the state.
My prediction:
Punitive measures by the state against illegal dealers will increase. They'll try their hardest to milk every last tax dollar out of weed sales. Incarceration levels may decrease, but only marginally. You'll still see plenty of (peaceful) street level dealers thrown into cages, while the sheep gather in a triumphant chorus of praise and "victory" over marijuana's "legalization."
We fucked it up in WA state. We used to have to buy liquor through the liquor control board controlled state stores. Well, 2 years before weed was made recreational, the liquor control board closed all it's stores and liquor was then sold in normal grocery stores.
The fucking recreational law re-opened the liquor control board and put them in charge of recreational marijuana.
They strictly regulate the shit out of it, and even cut the number of licenses and the amount of sq footage of canopy allowed per license to keep supply lower.
BUUUUUT, medical marijuana has been legal for decades, you're allowed to grow 15 plants per person, up to 45 plants per garden. You can make anyone your "caregiver" and they now can grow weed and possess 1.5lbs of dried nug per patient. There's no registry or anything, if gimpspack came to Seattle, I could sign a piece of paper and you can run around with 1.5lbs without fear.
The medical laws also tie law enforcements hands, they're not allowed to spend money investigating marijuana, they're not allowed to cooperate with federal authorities on marijuana, etc.
I flew to DC with 8 ounces for xmas in my carry on, in the airport in WA they give it back to you and let you let you go to your flight if you have a medical card. Unique situation.
But I could totally see the liquor control board going full ATF on busting people.
The fucking recreational law re-opened the liquor control board and put them in charge of recreational marijuana.
They strictly regulate the shit out of it, and even cut the number of licenses and the amount of sq footage of canopy allowed per license to keep supply lower.
BUUUUUT, medical marijuana has been legal for decades, you're allowed to grow 15 plants per person, up to 45 plants per garden. You can make anyone your "caregiver" and they now can grow weed and possess 1.5lbs of dried nug per patient. There's no registry or anything, if gimpspack came to Seattle, I could sign a piece of paper and you can run around with 1.5lbs without fear.
The medical laws also tie law enforcements hands, they're not allowed to spend money investigating marijuana, they're not allowed to cooperate with federal authorities on marijuana, etc.
I flew to DC with 8 ounces for xmas in my carry on, in the airport in WA they give it back to you and let you let you go to your flight if you have a medical card. Unique situation.
But I could totally see the liquor control board going full ATF on busting people.
Actually, you're right, as is the DC author. It is complete decriminalization that you're looking for, instead of the partial decriminalization that exists in some places like Spain and Canada.