Confessions From a Low key Affiliate

mituozo said:
This.

ROI isn't everything.

I'd rather get 200% ROI on $50000 than 2000% ROI on $500.

Lower rankings will always get better ROI by definition, because you'll pay less for them, for what will usually be the same value leads. The problem is you don't get as many leads.
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^^ I aint mad at cha, and your still my friend. But I call utter BS on this statement.

For one, you can get same and more clicks from average position 5-7 that you can for average position 1-3 in PPC. I've seen it time and time again over the years. With that in mind, you are going to get the same lead volume or more with the exact same LP in the test.

^^ why? Well if your pulling in more clicks with the same LP as a position that getting less clicks ( it happens even for the top 3 ), you'll have more chances at a conversion by default. Also, when your at lower positions, you're removing a lot of tire kickers and people that have already seen the other BS competitors of yours so many times they are more qualified too, learn to write your LPs for that fact. No more wasting clicks on people not interested yet just because your ad was #1 position.

So just because you think your paying less ( not always the case with QS and other factors in the mix ) for a lower position, dont think your getting less leads.

The problem with your math above is you assume less clicks/leads at a lesser average position then a top position.

^^ I can see some verticals where this can happen ( maybe like payday loans where someone doesnt give a shit where they get their loans because its all cookie cutter ), but when you run in ecom niches and other areas where the seller can be the differentiation factor in a sale against a competitor.. there is a whole other world out there.

Bottom line, it depends on the niche. Dont generalize lower position = less leads/clicks because its not so.
 


eliquid said:
^^ I aint mad at cha, and your still my friend. But I call utter BS on this statement.

For one, you can get same and more clicks from average position 5-7 that you can for average position 1-3 in PPC. I've seen it time and time again over the years. With that in mind, you are going to get the same lead volume or more with the exact same LP in the test.

^^ why? Well if your pulling in more clicks with the same LP as a position that getting less clicks ( it happens even for the top 3 ), you'll have more chances at a conversion by default. Also, when your at lower positions, you're removing a lot of tire kickers and people that have already seen the other BS competitors of yours so many times they are more qualified too, learn to write your LPs for that fact. No more wasting clicks on people not interested yet just because your ad was #1 position.

So just because you think your paying less ( not always the case with QS and other factors in the mix ) for a lower position, dont think your getting less leads.

The problem with your math above is you assume less clicks/leads at a lesser average position then a top position.

^^ I can see some verticals where this can happen ( maybe like payday loans where someone doesnt give a shit where they get their loans because its all cookie cutter ), but when you run in ecom niches and other areas where the seller can be the differentiation factor in a sale against a competitor.. there is a whole other world out there.

Bottom line, it depends on the niche. Dont generalize lower position = less leads/clicks because its not so.
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I can totally see that, although generally speaking, the higher you are in adwords results, the more traffic you will get.

I appreciate you'll also get more tire kickers and so forth, it all comes down to the value of what you are selling and whether the reduction in ROI by ranking higher is worth the loss in gross revenue.

Obviously a lot comes down to your ad copy and such, too.

In the end it all needs to be split tested. See how many good leads you get at #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6 etc and come out at the point which is the best crossover between ROI and revenue for whatever you are trying to do.
 
eliquid said:
For one, you can get same and more clicks from average position 5-7 that you can for average position 1-3 in PPC. I've seen it time and time again over the years.
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Funny, I've always seen the complete opposite.

Theoretically speaking you could only achieve that with a huge CTR compared to your competitors and you don't know your competitors CTR. And if you do have a better CTR then your competitors in pos 5/7 you'll get more clicks if you move, say to 3/4. And this works in every single fucking campaign I set.

In rough numbers, and this always depends on the niche, I would say you loose 50% plus on clicks on position 5/7, then if you were on pos 2/3 (best places in my opinion), simply because of ads exposure, same shit happens on organic search results, so it's straight forward to understand I guess. So you would have to compensate with a CTR which would have to be more then the double of your competitors. Try that on competitive markets.

There is a correlation between position and amount of clicks you get, seen it, done it, with every campaign and every client. Dunno how can someone state the opposite.

ROI and conversions are a different talk, just to make this clear.
 
^^ you talking Adwords Search specifically or are you including:

1. Bing
2. Display on any network

Because unless I have a super high ass CTR in lower positions ( granted, im not talking 9th here ), Im getting SAME if not sometimes MORE clicks then when I am bid into 1-3rd with everything else same ( adwords search )

Keyword being SAME and sometimes more clicks.
 
eliquid said:
You both seem to forget I also said roi AND CTR, you can do one or both

I.E. do this report to find the best position via CTR, which is more clicks for you. - "he that has an ear let him hear the tips in which I provideth"
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Yes, you did say that. But then you went on to imply that the optimal position isn't usually 1-3, which is why I posted to say otherwise.

In the aggregate (there are always exceptions), ad positions 1-3 get the vast majority of search traffic. The next few organic positions usually scoop up the rest.

I have yet to get a >5% CTR for a side position.

I suggest you segment your analytics to show you top vs side CTR, as your average position can be very deceptive: ‘Top vs. Side’ Ad Performance Segmentation - Inside AdWords

For one campaign, I have an average position of 5 and a CTR of 8%. At first, this lead me to believe my ad was performing well on the side spot. However, after segmenting, I found that I had a 25% CTR in the top 3 and close to a 0% CTR on the side spot.
 
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I am more interested in how you got the CTR so high... you literally are getting a large percentage of that because of the EMD shown in the ad?

I have a campaign where I split tested over 50 text creatives and went from 0.21% to 0.75% CTR. Even if I could hit like 1.5% it would be HUGE for me.
 
brentb said:
I am more interested in how you got the CTR so high... you literally are getting a large percentage of that because of the EMD shown in the ad?

I have a campaign where I split tested over 50 text creatives and went from 0.21% to 0.75% CTR. Even if I could hit like 1.5% it would be HUGE for me.
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CTR is not all in the ad. It's also how you structure your ad groups, long tail kws VS short tail, type of keyword targeting (broad, phrase, exact match), your bid (it reflects ad position) and of the niche itself. Sometimes it's impossible to get 1%+ CTR and sometimes it's extremely easy to get 5%+.
 
I've been running FB ads for my online businesses with pretty good success, the keywords really have grown a lot over the past years and the cost of clicks is far less than search (quality is lesser too, of course)
 
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