Democracy sucks, and here's proof

[Ar Scion]

Well, it doesn't suck, it's just deeply flawed.

I was reading an article today that brought together two pieces of information.

1) A Rasmussen poll indicating that the majority of Americans support the DREAM Act (look it up if you don't know what it is)

2) Republicans who claim to support the will of the American people and thus oppose the DREAM Act.

I think both are true. If the Republicans didn't vote in line with their constituency, they wouldn't be in office.

But how the fuck can the majority of people want something, and still not have it?

It's because of the nature of the system. Conservatives are much more likely to vote than liberals, resulting in a lot more clout in politics than they do in society at large.

They exert political power as a community, as a group. Very socialist, I must say. In a district with strong patterns of conservative voter socialism, one lone, earnest Liberal voter won't change anything.

So in a sense, the system does not reward the individual, it rewards powerful collective groups.

This isn't democracy. This isn't "one man one voice".

In a sense, organization within a democracy is a perversion, as it forces others to organize or be disenfranchised.

 

[jryan21]

The U.S. is not a democracy. It doesn't matter how many people support something, it's who they are and where they live that matters.

 

[adammcd]

true democracies never work. a democratic republic, like we are, do work because you gotta have the perfect mixture of vanguard and representation.

 

[DanWesson]

It sure does suck for people in the minority. Thankfully the U.S. is NOT a true democracy or we would have even less than we do today.

 

[ly2 from WF]

Well thank fucking christ that we aren't a real democracy and the nightmare act won't be passed.

 

[Ulixes]

To borrow from the West Wing, 'decisions are made by those who show up.'
Have a read of this, 42% of Americans identify as conservatives, only 20% as liberals. Your premise that conservatives only have influence because they vote in higher numbers is incorrect, they are also a significantly larger group. You want your pinko ideology to be dominant? Go live in Cuba.

Your socialist comment also misses the point of conservatism and libertarianism. The group/collective behaviour you identified is voluntary, no one forced anyone to join and participate in those groups. Socialism and related ideologies only work on the basis of co-opting everyone into the collective structure, as any competition with a working ideology such as conservatism will lead to massive industrial/economic/social problems, as socialism just can't compete as well.

 

[AustinP]

 

[AdvExtreamer]

USA == Republic != Democracy

 

[Ar Scion]

To borrow from the West Wing, 'decisions are made by those who show up.'
Have a read of this, 42% of Americans identify as conservatives, only 20% as liberals. Your premise that conservatives only have influence because they vote in higher numbers is incorrect, they are also a significantly larger group. You want your pinko ideology to be dominant? Go live in Cuba.

Your socialist comment also misses the point of conservatism and libertarianism. The group/collective behaviour you identified is voluntary, no one forced anyone to join and participate in those groups. Socialism and related ideologies only work on the basis of co-opting everyone into the collective structure, as any competition with a working ideology such as conservatism will lead to massive industrial/economic/social problems, as socialism just can't compete as well.

Only 20% identify as liberal because liberal has become a bad word. They won't call themselves moderate, they would rather self-identify as independent or not identify themselves at all.

Also, your insults are cool.

 

[BluAffiliate]

Democracy and freedom aren't synonymous, because the 51% can vote to oppress the 49%. Democracy for the sake of democracy is kind of pointless really, when you think about it. It's also statistically impossible to accommodate anyone's wants efficiently in a sample size of more than 50 people through any voting scheme we can create. Only authoritarianism can be efficient (But usually isn't.).

From a Political Science major.

 

[Ulixes]

Only 20% identify as liberal because liberal has become a bad word. They won't call themselves moderate, they would rather self-identify as independent or not identify themselves at all.

Also, your insults are cool.

If you actually read the link I posted, you could have seen that among those identifying as independent, the rate that leant towards conservatism was 36% vs 19% for liberal. But I suppose that that is the result of a grand conspiracy orchestrated by Fox News and Haliburton to under sample 'real' liberals, whatever that is.
Regardless of whether the liberal % is 20% or whatever, it is indisputably clear that conservatism is the dominant ideology in the USA. Someday you are going to have to make peace with the fact you live in a centre right/right country.

 

[Ar Scion]

The discrepancy doesn't explain the power of the Democratic party.

A lot of conservatives must have been fooled for Obama to have ended up in office.

 

[onigen]

the DREAM Act

 

[Ulixes]

The discrepancy doesn't explain the power of the Democratic party.

A lot of conservatives must have been fooled for Obama to have ended up in office.

The Democratic Party is an interesting institution. While today it is associated with liberal/left wing ideology traditionally it's actually representative of an old school conservative ideology. While this branch is non-dominant today you can still see evidence of it in the Blue Dog Coalition, and the strength of the state democratic parties in the south (although Republicans are really eating into this).

Being a conservative doesn't mean you have to blindly follow whatever your party nominates. Bush and the big-state conservatives turned a lot of libertarian conservatives and moderates off the Republican party. Timing of the 2008 Presidential election in late 2007, almost right at the top of the boom meant that many felt a lot more comfortable with a novice centre (as he portrayed himself) candidate. General political wisdom is that people are a lot more caring and comfortable about social/feel-good issues when they are secure in their own employment and prosperity.

A large part of Obama electoral success can be put down to his support reaching critical mass levels, ie. it became 'cool' to support Obama, something that couldn't have been said about previous Democrat candidates (Kerry, Gore). Combine this with an anti-republican sentiment thanks to Bush, and you have a recipe for electoral success.

 

[Ar Scion]

The Democratic Party is an interesting institution. While today it is associated with liberal/left wing ideology traditionally it's actually representative of an old school conservative ideology. While this branch is non-dominant today you can still see evidence of it in the Blue Dog Coalition, and the strength of the state democratic parties in the south (although Republicans are really eating into this).

Being a conservative doesn't mean you have to blindly follow whatever your party nominates. Bush and the big-state conservatives turned a lot of libertarian conservatives and moderates off the Republican party. Timing of the 2008 Presidential election in late 2007, almost right at the top of the boom meant that many felt a lot more comfortable with a novice centre (as he portrayed himself) candidate. General political wisdom is that people are a lot more caring and comfortable about social/feel-good issues when they are secure in their own employment and prosperity.

A large part of Obama electoral success can be put down to his support reaching critical mass levels, ie. it became 'cool' to support Obama, something that couldn't have been said about previous Democrat candidates (Kerry, Gore). Combine this with an anti-republican sentiment thanks to Bush, and you have a recipe for electoral success.

You sound like Wikipedia with a temper.

 

[Ulixes]

You sound like Wikipedia with a temper.

Haha, I'm a law student

 

[lukep]

Regardless of whether the liberal % is 20% or whatever, it is indisputably clear that conservatism is the dominant ideology in the USA. Someday you are going to have to make peace with the fact you live in a centre right/right country.

Oh, we know. You can't turn on a flippin TV anymore here without seeing obviously very-conservative-slanted journalism like the Fox News network, Glen Beck, O'Reily, Limbaugh, etc...

Libs got nothing... An online rag called the Huffington Post, that's about it. No personalities to mention at all.

The Democratic Party is an interesting institution. While today it is associated with liberal/left wing ideology traditionally it's actually representative of an old school conservative ideology. While this branch is non-dominant today you can still see evidence of it in the Blue Dog Coalition, and the strength of the state democratic parties in the south (although Republicans are really eating into this).

Before the Turbulent 60s we had just as many Conservatives on both sides of the aisle. Parties had no association with cons or libs.

Ronald Regan, always a full-on conservative, started out as a Democrat (During his acting days) and switched in the early 1970s. He has famously been quoted as saying "I didn't leave my party, it left me."

Nowadays we have blue-dog democrats which seem more like opposition plants or spies for the republicans than anything else. That's because they come from states, such as the entire Southern USA, that doesn't really have any liberals in them; the entire region wouldn't know what a liberal was if they married one... But still, someone has to run as the democrat...

It's really unfair and totally blurs the party lines past any meaning whatsoever. They should make the south be forced to run as republican or something...
:anon.sml:

 

[faceblogger]

 

[Ar Scion]

Haha, I'm a law student

Is righteous indignation part of the curriculum or is that you adding your own flavor?

Regardless, I think you make a valid point about it being cool to support Obama.

Coolness transcends politics.