Exploding the Antidepressant Myth

charlesmartel

charlesmartel

Anarcho-Monarchist
Jun 26, 2006
2,270
41
0
Tierra del Fuego
60 Minutes interviews Irving Kirsch on the myths of antidepressants. In most cases, they're no better than placebos.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eavGcz6bqaw]Antidepressant Drugs - the-placebo-effect.mp4 - YouTube[/ame]


His book, The Emperor's New Drugs: Exploding the Antidepressant Myth:

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/The-Emperors-New-Drugs-Antidepressant/dp/046502016X]The Emperor's New Drugs: Exploding the Antidepressant Myth: Irving Kirsch Ph.D.: 9780465020164: Amazon.com: Books[/ame]

The book is a really good read.

INB4 Obama sends a pharma drone to Kirsch's office.
 


Yup, about a year ago I read a meta study that showed one of these anti depressants being no better than placebo. No idea if that's mentioned in the vid, I can't watch it atm.
 
JoseArmando said:
Yup, about a year ago I read a meta study that showed one of these anti depressants being no better than placebo. No idea if that's mentioned in the vid, I can't watch it atm.
Click to expand...

The video is good. Kirsch's book is even better. Kirsch used the Freedom of Information Act to get unpublished pharmaceutical studies. What he found is mind blowing.
 
I've known lots of ppl on Prozac... One chick I dated in college could be absolutely suicidal and after a prozac pill start bouncing around like mary poppins... (Yeah I was a crazy magnet back then.)

It's hard to believe that was all just placebo doing the change, but the human mind is some powerful, mysterious stuff.
 
lukep said:
I've known lots of ppl on Prozac... One chick I dated in college could be absolutely suicidal and after a prozac pill start bouncing around like mary poppins... (Yeah I was a crazy magnet back then.)

It's hard to believe that was all just placebo doing the change, but the human mind is some powerful, mysterious stuff.
Click to expand...

1) That's not how Prozac works, it's not like a Xanex (I have taken both)

2) Why is it so surprising that a placebo can have such an impact on mental maladies? If anything, the brain is best equipped to fix such issues as the issues are by their very nature mental.

I am aware of the nature of antidepressant studies and the fact that massive pharma companies want to keep the world medicated whether the drugs do anything or not, but to say that all antidepressants are a farce is just ridiculous.

There are many antidepressant drugs that can really help people out, it's just a matter of 1) properly diagnosing the patient initially (primary care physicians are not trained to do this) and 2) matching the drug to the person (some people just plain don't react to one drug but are healed with another).

EDIT: Thanks for the book link OP, will check it out. Another good book to read is The Antidote, it looks at a bunch of nonconventional approaches to depression and happiness and is pretty interesting: [ame="http://www.amazon.com/The-Antidote-Happiness-Positive-Thinking/dp/0865479410"]The Antidote: Happiness for People Who Can't Stand Positive Thinking: Oliver Burkeman: 9780865479418: Amazon.com: Books[/ame]
 
I take 2 anti depressants(max doses of both) for pain and they work much better than oxycodone for nerve pain.

Don't feel any happier or sad from them, just less pain.
 
lukep said:
I've known lots of ppl on Prozac... One chick I dated in college could be absolutely suicidal and after a prozac pill start bouncing around like mary poppins... (Yeah I was a crazy magnet back then.)

It's hard to believe that was all just placebo doing the change, but the human mind is some powerful, mysterious stuff.
Click to expand...

LOL did she set fire to your stuff?
 
lukep said:
I've known lots of ppl on Prozac... One chick I dated in college could be absolutely suicidal and after a prozac pill start bouncing around like mary poppins... (Yeah I was a crazy magnet back then.)

It's hard to believe that was all just placebo doing the change, but the human mind is some powerful, mysterious stuff.
Click to expand...

Read Kirsch's book. He goes over the research. Fascinating stuff. Especially, the fact that you only need 2 positive studies to get FDA approval. The gain on the depression scale doesn't even have to be clinically significant (i.e., the patient's score improves but feels no better) for a drug to be approved.
 
If you are depressed, take a high dose of shrooms.

When you end up dying by disintegrating into a trillion pieces and getting reborn by watching them put themselves back together, you'll wonder "who" was "depressed".

Like a tag on this thread says, depression is a first world problem by people so bored of the mundanity of their existence that they invent problems and negative feelings for themselves. Fuck that bullshit about depression being a chemical imbalance. Any chemical imbalance is an effect of making your self feel like shit, not the cause of it.
 
This is a good book on an alternative theory of what causes depression (How to Lift Depression Fast):

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/How-Lift-Depression-fast-Approach/dp/1899398414]How to Lift Depression.: ..fast (Human Givens Approach): Joe Griffin, Ivan Tyrrell: 9781899398416: Amazon.com: Books[/ame]


The Human Givens approach seems to be known of in the UK but the US. Basically, they believe that depression is caused by "excessive rumination." Then when you go to sleep you get too much REM sleep. You wake up the next morning exhausted and the cycle continues.
 
Hale.Pane said:
LOL did she set fire to your stuff?
Click to expand...
If she did, it was a minor detail of our relationship too small for me to recall now. :1bluewinky:

She was quite the hottie though. Captain of the volleyball team despite enormous boobies that made the volleyballs look tiny.

charlesmartel said:
Fascinating stuff. Especially, the fact that you only need 2 positive studies to get FDA approval. The gain on the depression scale doesn't even have to be clinically significant (i.e., the patient's score improves but feels no better) for a drug to be approved.
Click to expand...
This kind of stuff doesn't surprise me one bit... Almost anticlimactic since I've heard so much truly evil stuff about big pharma over the years.

I don't ever want to have to take anything they make at all... But at least when I do finally give in, I won't get it from a US doctor; you can bet your life on that.
 
productionhead said:
If you are depressed, take a high dose of shrooms.

When you end up dying by disintegrating into a trillion pieces and getting reborn by watching them put themselves back together, you'll wonder "who" was "depressed".

Like a tag on this thread says, depression is a first world problem by people so bored of the mundanity of their existence that they invent problems and negative feelings for themselves. Fuck that bullshit about depression being a chemical imbalance. Any chemical imbalance is an effect of making your self feel like shit, not the cause of it.
Click to expand...

I don't know if you know any truly depressed people but I dealt with a couple in the past and it's NOT a simple issue to resolve. Doesn't matter what caused it or if it's 1st world problem, the struggle is in pulling that person out of that state.

I looked at depression exactly like you prior to talking in depth to people who were deep in depression. Honestly I'm scared shitless if anything like that hit me because from what I've seen your mind just goes crazy and it's almost impossible to function.

Maybe do some more research to understand it better.
 
r3p1v said:
What the eyes see and the ears hear the mind believes.
Click to expand...

OlePhUI.jpg


ibogaine

ayahuasca
 
As far as depression if I were to eat like shit, not have any hobbies, get fat etc I would get depressed too, and life as a whole would be harder because that's not healthy.

But nowadays we're all isolated, no community, everyone tuning into shitty broadcasting shaping their view of the world.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom