Government Shuts off Gas in New Mexico

dmnEPC

dmnEPC

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Dec 23, 2010
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So I just got off the phone talking about the game with my dad and he tells me about this BS that's been going on in New Mexico and I was shocked to hear it.
Gas Company Explains Gas Shortage - Albuquerque News Story - KOAT Albuquerque

They "ran out of gas" in New Mexico so they shut of the gas supply to route it to the bigger cities like Albuquerque and Santa Fe and left like 20,000 people still with out gas 3 days latter to heat there homes. What a fucking joke this is. You have people like my grandma that have serious health problems and cant easily be moved. I am sure there are thousands of elderly & children that have no choice but to freeze their asses off.

Just another example of how stupid our government is. How the hell do you just run out of gas, when the rest of the country, in much colder places manage not to fuck this up?
 


dmnEPC said:
Just another example of how stupid our government is. How the hell do you just run out of gas, when the rest of the country, in much colder places manage not to fuck this up?
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New Mexico Gas Company is a private company, held by another private company. How does the government figure into this?
 
justo_tx said:
New Mexico Gas Company is a private company, held by another private company. How does the government figure into this?
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When the Governor declares a state of emergency (and calls in the National Guard) with people stranded for 4 days with out heat in the middle of winter it becomes their problem.

(O_o) said:
buy your grandma an electric heater bro
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If you live somewhere that's got temps dropping down to zero, try turning your heat off for the next few days and see if you say the same thing.

I really don't expect you to care, because you weren't left out in the cold this time, but don't kid yourself into thinking this cant happen to you. I guess we just take to many things for granted in this country.

You are going to see this situation blow up as it spills over to some of the other southwestern states (It damn near happened in Vegas) and who knows where from there Las Vegas dodges gas shortage | LasVegasOptic.com

There is no shortage of Natural Gas in this country. There is also no shortage of politicians that don't know how to deal with it. The government is very much involved in this situation and as the days go by you are going to see this story blow up, its already happening as shown by these headlines

"Texas Residents Asked to Limit Use." "Outage in Arizona." "San Diego Shortage." "Usage at Record High in Utah." "California Utility Told to Cut Pipeline Pressures." "Natural Gas Futures Gain on Speculation of Inventory Deficit." "Shell Oil Postpones Drilling in the Arctic." "Democrat Senator blames the White House."
 
dmnEPC said:
When the Governor declares a state of emergency (and calls in the National Guard) with people stranded for 4 days with out heat in the middle of winter it becomes their problem.



If you live somewhere that's got temps dropping down to zero, try turning your heat off for the next few days and see if you say the same thing.

I really don't expect you to care, because you weren't left out in the cold this time, but don't kid yourself into thinking this cant happen to you. I guess we just take to many things for granted in this country.

You are going to see this situation blow up as it spills over to some of the other southwestern states (It damn near happened in Vegas) and who knows where from there Las Vegas dodges gas shortage | LasVegasOptic.com

There is no shortage of Natural Gas in this country. There is also no shortage of politicians that don't know how to deal with it. The government is very much involved in this situation and as the days go by you are going to see this story blow up, its already happening as shown by these headlines

"Texas Residents Asked to Limit Use." "Outage in Arizona." "San Diego Shortage." "Usage at Record High in Utah." "California Utility Told to Cut Pipeline Pressures." "Natural Gas Futures Gain on Speculation of Inventory Deficit." "Shell Oil Postpones Drilling in the Arctic." "Democrat Senator blames the White House."
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So you're saying the free market failed and the government tried to step in and restore calm?
 
Do you really believe that our energy supply is controlled by the free market?
 
How would you have handled the situation? Just curious because the way I see it, it sucks that your grandma is without heat, but there are 10x more grandmas without heat in the more populated areas. Given the limited resources (not sure what the deal is there), the answer seemed simple and straight forward... help the most people possible with the resources that are available.

I'm sure there are hospitals and community centers that had heat.
 
The point of this really has little to do with my family. Shit happens and my family will survive. The point I am trying to make is this shit shouldnt happen. Our gov has their fingers in everything and should be able to sort this out. If this were truly a free market issue then these people should b able to go down to the natural gas store and change suppliers O thats right they dont have that choice.
 
dmnEPC said:
The point of this really has little to do with my family. Shit happens and my family will survive. The point I am trying to make is this shit shouldnt happen. Our gov has their fingers in everything and should be able to sort this out. If this were truly a free market issue then these people should b able to go down to the natural gas store and change suppliers O thats right they dont have that choice.
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Changing gas companies is legal in SOME states.

However , is it right for the government to force a company who spent literally billions of dollars to install the NG pipes to allow another company to transmit gas through the pipes they installed?

Imagine your competitor being able to use the domain you bought and developed, but you couldn't do anything about it because it's 'better for everyone'.
 
dmnEPC said:
The point of this really has little to do with my family. Shit happens and my family will survive. The point I am trying to make is this shit shouldnt happen. Our gov has their fingers in everything and should be able to sort this out. If this were truly a free market issue then these people should b able to go down to the natural gas store and change suppliers O thats right they dont have that choice.
Click to expand...

You have literally zero understanding of start-up costs and how they affect competition.
 
dmnEPC said:
When the Governor declares a state of emergency (and calls in the National Guard) with people stranded for 4 days with out heat in the middle of winter it becomes their problem.



If you live somewhere that's got temps dropping down to zero, try turning your heat off for the next few days and see if you say the same thing.

I really don't expect you to care, because you weren't left out in the cold this time, but don't kid yourself into thinking this cant happen to you. I guess we just take to many things for granted in this country.

You are going to see this situation blow up as it spills over to some of the other southwestern states (It damn near happened in Vegas) and who knows where from there Las Vegas dodges gas shortage | LasVegasOptic.com

There is no shortage of Natural Gas in this country. There is also no shortage of politicians that don't know how to deal with it. The government is very much involved in this situation and as the days go by you are going to see this story blow up, its already happening as shown by these headlines

"Texas Residents Asked to Limit Use." "Outage in Arizona." "San Diego Shortage." "Usage at Record High in Utah." "California Utility Told to Cut Pipeline Pressures." "Natural Gas Futures Gain on Speculation of Inventory Deficit." "Shell Oil Postpones Drilling in the Arctic." "Democrat Senator blames the White House."
Click to expand...


I've had to do it before , so yes , it can be done with electric heaters, they do make radiant , oil filled heaters that will do a pretty great job of heating a small home up.
 
Two points:

1. Free market versus state

Just because a good or service is sold by a privately-held entity does not mean it is a product of a truly free market. Regulations play a major role in creating shortages.

When you apply for a mortgage loan at a privately-held bank, do you think the state is uninvolved? When you buy a car from GM, do you think the state is uninvolved? When you get a haircut from a state-licensed stylist, do you think the state is uninvolved?

Some gas companies are privately-held. But this does not mean they operate in a free market. Saying otherwise is like saying Goldman Sachs operates in a free market. This is, the argument is foolish. It lacks insight, reason, or both.

Pointing to a privately-held company that operates within a heavily-regulated market, and presenting it as a proxy for a free market, is likewise foolish.


2. A quick economics lesson

Almost all resources are scarce. We know this because prices are attached to them. That is, someone is willing to exchange something of value to acquire them. The world is full of scarce resources. No one among us is willing to pay for the air we breathe because it is not scarce. Bottled water, cars, energy, and for some, sex, are scarce. Ergo, we pay for them.

So, how are these scarce resources divvied up among people? Prices, which rise and fall to accommodate demand from consumers given available supplies.

This does not mean there is a natural shortage of resources. Shortages are different than scarcities. They are created.

Take food, for example. There is arguably plenty of food to feed each person on the planet. A truly free market would ration supplies based on prices. When supplies dwindle, prices would rise, prompting people to conserve. When supplies expand, prices would drop, boosting consumption.

Why, then, are there food shortages sparking riots around the world?

Hint: state intervention. Price controls, tariffs, regulations of every sort.

Note: I'm not going to engage in a debate about this stuff on a forum. If history serves as a map to the future, doing so is a waste of time. But since some of you vote for our slave-masters, I thought it'd be a good reminder.
 
Don't live in rural places without a plan B. In this case, firewood and a proper amt of fireplaces to heat the home.
 
JakeStratham said:
Two points:

1. Free market versus state

Just because a good or service is sold by a privately-held entity does not mean it is a product of a truly free market. Regulations play a major role in creating shortages.

When you apply for a mortgage loan at a privately-held bank, do you think the state is uninvolved? When you buy a car from GM, do you think the state is uninvolved? When you get a haircut from a state-licensed stylist, do you think the state is uninvolved?

Some gas companies are privately-held. But this does not mean they operate in a free market. Saying otherwise is like saying Goldman Sachs operates in a free market. This is, the argument is foolish. It lacks insight, reason, or both.

Pointing to a privately-held company that operates within a heavily-regulated market, and presenting it as a proxy for a free market, is likewise foolish.


2. A quick economics lesson

Almost all resources are scarce. We know this because prices are attached to them. That is, someone is willing to exchange something of value to acquire them. The world is full of scarce resources. No one among us is willing to pay for the air we breathe because it is not scarce. Bottled water, cars, energy, and for some, sex, are scarce. Ergo, we pay for them.

So, how are these scarce resources divvied up among people? Prices, which rise and fall to accommodate demand from consumers given available supplies.

This does not mean there is a natural shortage of resources. Shortages are different than scarcities. They are created.

Take food, for example. There is arguably plenty of food to feed each person on the planet. A truly free market would ration supplies based on prices. When supplies dwindle, prices would rise, prompting people to conserve. When supplies expand, prices would drop, boosting consumption.

Why, then, are there food shortages sparking riots around the world?

Hint: state intervention. Price controls, tariffs, regulations of every sort.

Note: I'm not going to engage in a debate about this stuff on a forum. If history serves as a map to the future, doing so is a waste of time. But since some of you vote for our slave-masters, I thought it'd be a good reminder.
Click to expand...

See Enron for an example of deregulation in the energy markets.
 
Government should control....

That's right where I stopped reading this thread.

Sorry bout your grandma, that is no laughing matter, but the Government has done enough to fuck up everything as it stands now. Don't think they need to step in and do anything. Take a closer look at your elected state officials. Perhaps a call to some of your state offices is in order.
 
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