Smaller self serve networks

Partyhat

I wanna be killed twice
Jun 9, 2009
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Chi-Town
I'm talking about networks like Adsdaq, AdBuyer and TattoMedia. Networks that are a step down from media buying networks since I absolutely don't have that type of cash flow. I guess you can call them Brokers, I know atleast AdBuyer gets ad space from RightMedia.

Has anyone had success with them? I can't find too much info on Adsdaq and AdBuyer. Is it a good place to try out media buying without signing a 20K contract?
 


Also...



G-O-O-G-L-E


The reason people are jerks to you is because unlike you, when they were starting out they sat down at their computers for days at a time doing their research, learning the ins and outs of affiliate marketing and cutting in to their sleep and family time just to become successful. These "jerks" did everything they possibly could to learn and there you come along with a supid ass question like "HOW TO USE AMAZON AFFILIATE MARKET" hoping for the answers handed to you on a platter without even taking the intiative to type "amazon affiliate" into google and reading up about it.

/rant

This post wasn't toward your post specifically (not to say that it wasn't) but toward stupid ass questions by lazy noobs in general. People love hard working noobs. not lazy ones.

--Partyhat

On a serious note, adsdaq has some insanely high minimum cpcs but I think some ppl def media buy on there. I know they optimize better for bigger depositst (5k+).

I wouldn't buy from tattomedia. They run an aff network and they are huge affs. They run mypurelove etc and probably a bunch of other traffic. Im guessing they have pretty freaking insane statistics. Adbuyer stats delayed by 24 hrs. Definitely take a pretty huge cut on the buy margins and they are a new company so I doubt they just have a bunch of inventory they prebuy so I don't know how they operate.
 
I had a feeling this was gonna happen ... In all fairness I did my research for half the day on these networks. As I said I don't have huge cash flow right now so just wanted some input. lol and you knnooow my question was more qualified than the one by the twat that I flamed. which you humbly posted.

Thanks for the serious note flysarescary. That's the type of stuff I didn't find even with the 3 hours of research I did this morning. But how can adsdaq have high cpc's if they're a CPM network in the first place?
 
adplanner, quantcast, google serps + private deals is the way to go if you don't want to go through the big agencies like fastclick. Openx also started brokering ad space, maybe you can look into that: Your ad space should earn more... Now, it can. | OpenX

I was actually planning on it but I got sidetracked because my fucking VPS host told me that OpenX was tearing their server a new ass hole. Had to get rid of OpenX =[ now looking for a more light weight solution. But yea I forgot about the openx market, i'm gonna do that now as I didn't look into it too much before.
 
On adsdaq you can bid cpm or cpc but the default is cpc. CPC = more control if you don't want to burn through a nice chuck of your change but I'm not saying you should do that. Just more control. Adsdaq does indeed optimize better for bigger buys just ask them.

TBH, I think you should be looking for great margins not crazy volume if you don't have the cash to pull it off. There was a good blog post the other day from the pub with the orange/black/white blog, I forgot what it was. Adwords editor time! But in all seriousness goodluck. Just do it.
 
I think i actually might remember the post you're talking about. But I was reading so much for the past few days everything is a blur.

As for the ppc, wouldn't it be a better solution for me? the more control is something i'm looking for plus with cpm I'm afraid I might get screwed with shit impressions since I'm not one of the high rollers that negotiated their CPM and placement and had adsdaq reps optimize for me.
 
Why not just go direct to sites? It's cheaper alot of times and allows you to make a kick-ass ad that blends (and therefore looks like content). Try to do that run-of-network. As far as the networks you've mentioned, I've still yet to test.
 
You know.. you don't really need all that much cash on hand to start with media buying.

You can easily start with $10k-$20k and be able to score $100k-$1M media buys in under 6 months without a doubt. Unlike PPC for most people, media buys rely heavily on credit terms. If you call most places up and play it cool and tell them you want to drop $10k-$20k on a test campaign, they'd probably offer you credit terms right afterwards. Just make sure to build up credit with your business/LLC/Corp first.

Getting approved for a media buy campaign with any major company like AOL, IAC, Google, Yahoo, MSN, FOX, etc. gives you instant credit for future campaigns with just about anyone in the space. They see anyone of those companies as a reference they'll issue you an almost limitless amount of credit terms.

Hell, just in March we had only $300k/mo credit terms with most companies, and now we've got well over $20M/mo - unlimited, at almost every network I've mentioned above, not that we'll ever even use it or come anywhere near close to those, but it just goes to show you how much they'll offer you just so long as you can get the references. Its totally worth it to drop $10k-$20k pre-paid in your first test month and be in the millions in under 6 months.

Best part of credit terms too, is that almost every outlet you buy media from is payment on net-60, some of them will go as far as net-90, but you may have to blow the right people for that. That means you pay 60-90 days AFTER the campaign runs. Gives you ample time to collect your earnings and pay your bill on time without any issues.

I know I'm making it sound easier than it is, because the toughest part of media buying is not being able to find the space or even buy the space, its actually figuring out which places will convert at 300%-1000% ROI vs the ones that only convert at crappy 50%-80%. Thats the difference you find in the industry these days between the punk kids who go around yelling about how they do media buys but can never quite figure out how to surpass the 300%+ ROI point. You'll never hear or see anyone post the answers to that kind of info here or anywhere though, unless they are on crack or lying. But yeah, there's no reason to give up and walk away just yet buddy.

The smaller ones are good too sometimes. Just depends on the offer and what it calls for, either to be pounded with general media buys from unfiltered/untested sources, or from well planned out purchases that are more expensive but proven to work. Tatto Media are good people, almost limitless inventory too, known them for a long time now, definitely take a stab at them. The others you mentioned are decent too.

Almost all of the 2nd tier media traffic sources are also affiliates. CPX and ValueClick are both a huge affiliates and place a lot of guys here buy media from. Hell, we caught those fuckers stealing our ads/LP's before, so just goes to show ya, you may think its a safe bet to buy from but the risk is always there. Just because they sell traffic, doesn't mean they aren't in it for themselves too. But thats just the way the business works.
 
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going direct is something i should really really do but have been putting off for a long ass time. the reason being that most sites wouldn't let me have a week of test traffic so that would require me to buy for a whole month, and having a relatively little amount of sites within my pay range related to my niche (teeth whitening), it would require me to target by demographic on unrelated sites. which I know is extremely effective, it's just something I haven't had experience with yet.

i guess it's time to grow some balls and go for it eh?
 
wow jon you are the man. i tried to edit the post but it was too late.

but yea sadly i do talk the talk too much and dont do the walking as much so I don't have to initial 10K to drop lol. To be honest I graduated from HS just a couple months ago and got no job, that would explain the no budget. I do have around 3K and have been breaking even for the last month (not with buys). Once I gather up the initial investment I'm gonna go with what you told me. all i can say if fucking bookmarked. at this point I'm the one stealing ideas from landing pages so I wouldn't worry about networks jacking my shit just yet.

i didn't know about the credit terms. i see how why they work but how does that benefit the affiliate? Since most aff companies are net-15
 
Have you used Google Ad Planner yet? Just look at the demographic of your offer URL, then search placements by those demographics. Teeth Whitening is a pretty general thing that appeals to alot of people and it seems like it would be more of an impulse buy, so just target by demographics. My 2 cents.
 
wow jon you are the man. i tried to edit the post but it was too late.

but yea sadly i do talk the talk too much and dont do the walking as much so I don't have to initial 10K to drop lol. To be honest I graduated from HS just a couple months ago and got no job, that would explain the no budget. I do have around 3K and have been breaking even for the last month (not with buys). Once I gather up the initial investment I'm gonna go with what you told me. all i can say if fucking bookmarked. at this point I'm the one stealing ideas from landing pages so I wouldn't worry about networks jacking my shit just yet.

i didn't know about the credit terms. i see how why they work but how does that benefit the affiliate? Since most aff companies are net-15

Fantastic post Jon. Really informative.

Anyhow, PartyHat, your budget is a bit more appropriate for PPC. $3,000 won't get you anywhere and the chances of you seeing a profitable media buy within those $3,000 is slim. You said you have been breaking even on several other campaigns for months now, well why don't you keep tweaking those campaigns, turn them into profit, and then wait a few months until you could afford a small media buy.

Well if you are doing decent volume, then getting paid weekly/daily is not a problem. So what Jon was pointing out is that you would be paid several times before the time comes to pay for the media buy. Thus, you should have the funds at hand.
 
Jon be dropping some knowledge up in here.

And yes, if you're paying net-60, or even net-30, you should have gotten your check net-15, which gives you the time to collect your commission in time to pay your bills. At the very least you'll have 2 weeks, which is time for a cheque to arrive and your bank to clear it.

Not to mention if you're dropping 5-10k (or more) on a media buy you're probably on, or will be, on weeklies.
 
Media buying is a lot like gambling.. only risk what you can afford. So if $10k-$20k is your entire scratch, don't even bother. Keep your corporate black cards tucked away safely with your FB and Google accounts where they belong pussies. This game is not for you. You also need to approach media buying campaigns differently than with any other type of traffic. Only need a few simple things, but cash and balls/nerves of steel are definitely needed.

This shit can go either way, and fast, and there's not a goddamn thing you can do about it either until its run its course. No pause button, and even when you call your rep frantically, it usually takes them a day or two to hit stop, and you've already burned through $50k or more by then. But, when it goes great its like hitting every fucking number on the powerball and the bonus number too. The feeling is just absolutely amazing.

Now I know why media buying on the cpm level didn't die with the rest of the dot-bomb bubble, this shit is too much fun to have disappear. Quite possibly the only aspect of this industry that beats refreshing stats and seeing the cash fly in.
 
This shit can go either way, and fast, and there's not a goddamn thing you can do about it either until its run its course. No pause button, and even when you call your rep frantically, it usually takes them a day or two to hit stop, and you've already burned through $50k or more by then. But, when it goes great its like hitting every fucking number on the powerball and the bonus number too. The feeling is just absolutely amazing.

Here's what you do to avoid shit like this ^

1. Out Clause - Never sign an IO that has one that is longer than 72 hours. When you exercise it, stop your traffic immediately.

2. Even Delivery - This spreads your buy evenly over 30 days or 60 days or however long your buy is. This prevents them from dumping impressions on you.

3. Daily cap - If you get a 30 day test IO, try to negotiate a daily cap for the first 5 days of $500 a day or whatever so you can figure out if it's going to work.

4. Pauses Must Be Done Immediately - You can definitely pause traffic but you need to have it negotiated in your IO. If your rep takes 2 days to do it, get another rep.

EVERYTHING is negotiated with buys. You only get what you negotiate. They are going to fight for terms that are in their best interest, you need to do the same. The more money you spend, the more power/leverage you have.

Buy CPM, it forces you to be a better marketer and if you can pull it off, you have far more control over your costs.

Also, if you're not doing this through your own ad server, you're an idiot.
 
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Here's what you do to avoid shit like this ^

1. Out Clause - Never sign an IO that has one that is longer than 72 hours. When you exercise it, stop your traffic immediately.

2. Even Delivery - This spreads your buy evenly over 30 days or 60 days or however long your buy is. This prevents them from dumping impressions on you.

3. Daily cap - If you get a 30 day test IO, try to negotiate a daily cap for the first 5 days of $500 a day or whatever so you can figure out if it's going to work.

4. Pauses Must Be Done Immediately - You can definitely pause traffic but you need to have it negotiated in your IO. If your rep takes 2 days to do it, get another rep.

EVERYTHING is negotiated with buys. You only get what you negotiate. They are going to fight for terms that are in their best interest, you need to do the same. The more money you spend, the more power/leverage you have.

Buy CPM, it forces you to be a better marketer and if you can pull it off, you have far more control over your costs.

Also, if you're not doing this through your own ad server, you're an idiot.

+rep great post
 
Here's what you do to avoid shit like this ^

1. Out Clause - Never sign an IO that has one that is longer than 72 hours. When you exercise it, stop your traffic immediately.

2. Even Delivery - This spreads your buy evenly over 30 days or 60 days or however long your buy is. This prevents them from dumping impressions on you.

3. Daily cap - If you get a 30 day test IO, try to negotiate a daily cap for the first 5 days of $500 a day or whatever so you can figure out if it's going to work.

4. Pauses Must Be Done Immediately - You can definitely pause traffic but you need to have it negotiated in your IO. If your rep takes 2 days to do it, get another rep.

EVERYTHING is negotiated with buys. You only get what you negotiate. They are going to fight for terms that are in their best interest, you need to do the same. The more money you spend, the more power/leverage you have.

Buy CPM, it forces you to be a better marketer and if you can pull it off, you have far more control over your costs.

Also, if you're not doing this through your own ad server, you're an idiot.

Great stuff man!