Do you manage clients? Post your questions here...or just bitch about how lame they are and how you wish you could get out of doing client work.
The Official Client Work Thread
- Thread starter AngryFiver
- Start date
I dunno why you would hate on client work.
A good client relationship lets you leverage your expertise by multiplying it against your clients scale and existing investments in their industry. If you're doing it right this should create far more value for both parties that just wouldn't exist if you were both operating on their own.
If your clients suck and you're bitching about how lame they are behind their back. Its probably because you're a shit bag who's just trying to mark them up for simple things rather then focusing on what you can do to create real lasting value for them.
A good client relationship lets you leverage your expertise by multiplying it against your clients scale and existing investments in their industry. If you're doing it right this should create far more value for both parties that just wouldn't exist if you were both operating on their own.
If your clients suck and you're bitching about how lame they are behind their back. Its probably because you're a shit bag who's just trying to mark them up for simple things rather then focusing on what you can do to create real lasting value for them.
I don't know, but my clients are beyond amazing, and treat me like gold. I don't really have any bad words to say about them. *shrug*
Finding good clients is like hiring good employees. It's work that includes a screening & vetting process, trial periods to feel each other out, etc. You don't just get an amazing client who's going to be around for years each time.
They're definitely out there though. Maybe you're not providing enough value to make clients believe you're indispensable? With a couple clients, nowadays I get a simple bullet point list of basic specs, I say, "ok, it'll be 80 hours, so $8000", and they say "ok, have at it!". That's it, because we know each other so well, I know what they expect, and they know what to expect from me.
The only reason you would have a bad relationship with a client is if you did set expectations correctly for the business relationship. If you're feeling that you're not being compensated enough for the work you're doing for these clients, you're either selling yourself poorly or your product/service isn't very good.
ZuzanaDesigns
All Your Design Needs
I have some awesome clients that have been working with my company for over a decade. I have become very good friends with most of them. They refer their friends and peers to me all the time and I make sure to cater to all of their needs. It's a lot of work to get good clients and if the services you provide meet their expectations you should never have a problem. I do get a bad seed every once in awhile but that's going to happen in any business.
All of my clients are coming from those online sites where they expect an American to do marketing work for $10/hour and then mark you down on their rating when you actually charge them a US rate.
I also had 1 client who wanted to test some traffic on a platform for their product. They didn't know if it would convert for his business but they wanted to try. After running some traffic, it was obvious that the platform was not the right fit for them, no matter what targeting options we tried. Even though I did everything to the letter, he was upset that the traffic didn't convert and marked me down because of it.
I guess next time I need to set expectations up front as the marketer can't be held accountable all the time for campaigns that don't work because the product/service isn't right for that platform.
Client work is essential in building mutually beneficial co-operation. What you need to succeed in it is a different approach. You should not consider it a routine, a waste of time or anything like that. It is a permanent strive for perfection, a process of self-improvement as well as earning money.
Your attitude to anything you do changes your experience dramatically. I hope everybody knows the fable from The Holy Bible.
"King Solomon was walking past the quarry and saw a man. He asked the man:
- What are you doing?
- I am mining stone and making blocks. Work is hard, sun is hot, I get very tired and the wage is miserable. I hate it but I can't do anything else, so I have to do it.
Solomon gave him a dime and went on. Then he saw another man and asked him the same question. The second man replied:
- I am creating blocks from stone. It is a harsh work but I know it is useful. I am glad to be doing it, though the wage could be higher.
Solomon gave him a silver coin and went on. Then he saw the third worked who was making stone blocks - and he was singing with joy. He asked that good man the same question and got such reply:
- I am building a temple. The work is hard yet I do not complain as the goal is great. I am happy with what I do, so I sing and praise Lord for this chance He gave me.
Solomon gave him a golden coin and went on. Then he stopped, returned, took off his royal robes, took another hammer and began working together with that man"".
Attitude is essential in everything. We are never tired to work with clients as this brings us their money, their gratitude and their recommendations, which result in new clients.
Your attitude to anything you do changes your experience dramatically. I hope everybody knows the fable from The Holy Bible.
"King Solomon was walking past the quarry and saw a man. He asked the man:
- What are you doing?
- I am mining stone and making blocks. Work is hard, sun is hot, I get very tired and the wage is miserable. I hate it but I can't do anything else, so I have to do it.
Solomon gave him a dime and went on. Then he saw another man and asked him the same question. The second man replied:
- I am creating blocks from stone. It is a harsh work but I know it is useful. I am glad to be doing it, though the wage could be higher.
Solomon gave him a silver coin and went on. Then he saw the third worked who was making stone blocks - and he was singing with joy. He asked that good man the same question and got such reply:
- I am building a temple. The work is hard yet I do not complain as the goal is great. I am happy with what I do, so I sing and praise Lord for this chance He gave me.
Solomon gave him a golden coin and went on. Then he stopped, returned, took off his royal robes, took another hammer and began working together with that man"".
Attitude is essential in everything. We are never tired to work with clients as this brings us their money, their gratitude and their recommendations, which result in new clients.
That is the feeling I got. If your clients are shit your offering is attracting shit clients. Refine what you offer and try again.
I've been very fortunate. Almost all of my clients are great. Most of them have become friends. A few of them I actually go on trips with (meet in Vegas, go to the islands etc). If I have a client that doesn't gel well with me, I simply tell them that we can't do business together any longer. Of course I do this in a very professional manner. Many times these clients will lay off if I express displeasure with our working relationship, and we end up moving forward in a more positive working situation.
I have had a few clients where it has gotten pretty heated, but I haven't had any "fuck off" type of situations in a long time. I think it's because my good clients always refer other good clients. Referral clients are always the most ideal.
I have had a few clients where it has gotten pretty heated, but I haven't had any "fuck off" type of situations in a long time. I think it's because my good clients always refer other good clients. Referral clients are always the most ideal.
Grinding out work / leads I guess? Like I get a lot of referrals, but the one I've been working mostly over the several months I found on oDesk of all places. I've quite a few great people from here as well.
I'll weigh in.
Did client servicing for 12 years before starting my own products, I started my own products because I got absolutely SICK of dealing with clients. I did it all, juggling 50 small guys, to having a handful of five-six figure budget clients for the year... I'm a bad fit for client servicing because I overdeliver and set expectations too high too quick even after practicing to only show the client the work a week after being done so I don't set that expectation... blah.. money was awesome but I grew to hate it, making pennies on the dollar for unique lucrative work as I saw it. Automation is impossible when branding/high end rich media, scaling is hard, outsourcing is fickle, I decided to stop it all.
My last client: Site was ugly as sin and my job was to repackage/brand it properly. I did, 10/10 beautiful work, client actually cried the first time I showed her (very emotionally attached to her biz and she's a one hit wonder so yeah, it made me feel good my design work gave her deep feels, she knew it would work well).
Fast forward a month, google drops her for a bit and makes her dance in serps because new pages/better SEO but different/things changed... she blames me, threatens to sue, tells me she's suing google, lol, we part while she still owes me xK. A few more months go by, she contacts me saying serps are not only back but better than before, apologizes, and asks where to send the money and asks me to do more work. I tell her to keep her monies and no to the work because my product line had started to take off..
Anyway, a few things I did to ensure I got good clients/got paid after fumbling my way through the industry for years:
* Put up a retainer minimum, I set mine to 10K, then 25K before I finally stopped it all.
* Setup PROPER contracts up front - including liabilities on the clients end that will cost them (revision work, color changes, babysitting, hosting issues, dripping you content to build with vs giving it all at once pre-build, payment terms, etc.).
* Always take 50%+ upfront, don't take no for an aswer, never release all code/project assets until paid in full.
* Make sure you are the alpha in the relationship, or at least not a beta bitch.
* Make yourself unavailable by design, it's your clients privilege to work with you as you'll make them more money, they should understand you do servicing because you want to not because your ideas don't cut it for your own projects.
* Finally, this video is a MUST WATCH if you're into servicing:
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6h3RJhoqgK8[/ame]
Did client servicing for 12 years before starting my own products, I started my own products because I got absolutely SICK of dealing with clients. I did it all, juggling 50 small guys, to having a handful of five-six figure budget clients for the year... I'm a bad fit for client servicing because I overdeliver and set expectations too high too quick even after practicing to only show the client the work a week after being done so I don't set that expectation... blah.. money was awesome but I grew to hate it, making pennies on the dollar for unique lucrative work as I saw it. Automation is impossible when branding/high end rich media, scaling is hard, outsourcing is fickle, I decided to stop it all.
My last client: Site was ugly as sin and my job was to repackage/brand it properly. I did, 10/10 beautiful work, client actually cried the first time I showed her (very emotionally attached to her biz and she's a one hit wonder so yeah, it made me feel good my design work gave her deep feels, she knew it would work well).
Fast forward a month, google drops her for a bit and makes her dance in serps because new pages/better SEO but different/things changed... she blames me, threatens to sue, tells me she's suing google, lol, we part while she still owes me xK. A few more months go by, she contacts me saying serps are not only back but better than before, apologizes, and asks where to send the money and asks me to do more work. I tell her to keep her monies and no to the work because my product line had started to take off..
Anyway, a few things I did to ensure I got good clients/got paid after fumbling my way through the industry for years:
* Put up a retainer minimum, I set mine to 10K, then 25K before I finally stopped it all.
* Setup PROPER contracts up front - including liabilities on the clients end that will cost them (revision work, color changes, babysitting, hosting issues, dripping you content to build with vs giving it all at once pre-build, payment terms, etc.).
* Always take 50%+ upfront, don't take no for an aswer, never release all code/project assets until paid in full.
* Make sure you are the alpha in the relationship, or at least not a beta bitch.
* Make yourself unavailable by design, it's your clients privilege to work with you as you'll make them more money, they should understand you do servicing because you want to not because your ideas don't cut it for your own projects.
* Finally, this video is a MUST WATCH if you're into servicing:
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6h3RJhoqgK8[/ame]
I know...I have to get off those sites.
I've researched web design firms in my area and will contact them on Monday. I'm guessing that calling is better than emailing, so I'll go that route. But I have no idea who to ask to speak to or what kind I'm supposed to say to that person that will get me work.