Why do hosts rip you off?

BeerNuts

New member
Sep 4, 2008
1,865
25
0
www.beermonies.com
I currently have a 756mb VPS at wiredtree, I am really trying to get my ecommerce site running at full speed. Its using Magento and its fucking everything up since I have a lot of stuff on there. Time to move it to a new server, but looking at the pricing at most hosts I just can't bring myself to order from them because of the epic scam they are running.

Few things I have seen, 2gb ram server add 2gb more and its a extra $20/mo. I can BUY 8gb of ram for $99 on newegg. Extra hard drives, or extra space still a total rip off. A 500gb WD is now $40 on newegg. Why the hell would I pay 10-20 more a month for that?

Its not 1990 anymore how are they getting away with these prices? I am very very close to just saying fuck it and building a server for colo.
 


@the ram, (hopefully) they're using server RAM, not standard PC ddr2/ddr3. But yeah, if you want your own server, get one. They're up on ebay fairly often, as well as on WHT. Although, if you go down that route, don't forget the cost of cpanel, plus if you're not skilled with server maintenance & SSH, support staff to help you with that.
 
@the ram, (hopefully) they're using server RAM, not standard PC ddr2/ddr3. But yeah, if you want your own server, get one. They're up on ebay fairly often, as well as on WHT. Although, if you go down that route, don't forget the cost of cpanel, plus if you're not skilled with server maintenance & SSH, support staff to help you with that.

The cost of bandwidth as well too.

One of my servers uses about 1gb a day; I want to see someone do that cheaply on their own.
 
LOL at the whole fucking comparison. A bit Retarded to compare PC ram to a server build.
And Colo will run you far more than just a dedi at most quality hosts, plus all the admin hassle and support.

Look at PowerVPS.com- I have had my shit with them since 2004 or so and never had an issue. And at $150
or so for a dedicated box with everything you need to run a smoking fast Magento install, it's a no-brainer.
 
I currently have a 756mb VPS at wiredtree, I am really trying to get my ecommerce site running at full speed. Its using Magento and its fucking everything up since I have a lot of stuff on there. Time to move it to a new server, but looking at the pricing at most hosts I just can't bring myself to order from them because of the epic scam they are running.

Few things I have seen, 2gb ram server add 2gb more and its a extra $20/mo. I can BUY 8gb of ram for $99 on newegg. Extra hard drives, or extra space still a total rip off. A 500gb WD is now $40 on newegg. Why the hell would I pay 10-20 more a month for that?

Its not 1990 anymore how are they getting away with these prices? I am very very close to just saying fuck it and building a server for colo.

QQ nub
 
Its not a retarded comparison, unless they specifically say they are using ECC registered server ram then they are not. Just as an example because I was there they other day.

Go to wiredtree.com and build a dedicated server. CPUs run from Q6600 which my old comp had, to i5 and i7 including the i7 920 in my current tower. If you go with a i5-i7 CPU they clearly say that they do not support ECC and that the server will have dual channel DDR3-1333MHZ. Same shit I have in my tower.

Lets move down to the HD. Yes there are variety to the HD options but I see 500gb SATAII 7.2k RPM with a 16MB cache. You can buy these for $40-50 on newegg.

How exactly is this leet server hardware? Of course some servers charge you for high end hardware but you could build this setup no problem.
 
How exactly is this leet server hardware? Of course some servers charge you for high end hardware but you could build this setup no problem.

And you can, that's what colocation is for. You're comparing building your own server to a company that makes money by splitting up a server into smaller pieces and renting them out. Not the same thing at all.
 
We charge a one time fee for a ram and harddrive upgrades. Although I see no problem with charging monthly, the host is in business to make a profit.


amerinoc.com
 
One thing to consider when hosts do charge this way it typically accounts for other factors as well, among them being labor costs and expected higher usage. If they don't have a set staff cost then they are paying a remote hands fee they have to factor in, but more importantly, more RAM and more HD space tends to lead to more traffic, so some price things out by adding to the monthly rate so they can still post super low prices to suck people in, then they add to the monthly recurring as people realize the server they ordered is not powerful enough to run their Tube site or 100 site automated WP network with 1000 plugins updating every minute on crons.

Bash me now for my first post. ;-)
 
One thing to consider when hosts do charge this way it typically accounts for other factors as well, among them being labor costs and expected higher usage. If they don't have a set staff cost then they are paying a remote hands fee they have to factor in, but more importantly, more RAM and more HD space tends to lead to more traffic, so some price things out by adding to the monthly rate so they can still post super low prices to suck people in, then they add to the monthly recurring as people realize the server they ordered is not powerful enough to run their Tube site or 100 site automated WP network with 1000 plugins updating every minute on crons.

Bash me now for my first post. ;-)

No reason to bash you, because you're right.
 
You're essentially renting the hardware from them, and they're paying to have it located at a datacenter. Most VPS providers I know, too, manage it for you. Plus the cost of a control panel, lets say cPanel, is more expensive than going with a company that offers VPS (generally).

Build a server - $200?
Co-Location - $50-70/month
cPanel $40/month
mangement - various

Lets look at a top company like iweb.com
1u (towers are $20/month more) hosting offers 500GB transfer, level 1 management(15 minutes monthly Managed Hosting Services), up to 6 IPs, and of course a 100% uptime promise.

I'm sure you could find different providers and there would be different results but in my opinion it's cheaper for you to "rent" a server or VPS than it would be to build your own machine and pay tons of extras.
 
What your dumb ass doesn't realize is that for a dedicated server provider to make money, they need to break even on their hardware within five months. Why? Because they know that in 12 months you're going to be able to get a faster server for the same price, and they don't want to be stuck peddling old shit to new customers.

So, if a server costs them say $800 to build (they have to pay for someones time also remember), then they are going to rent it for ~$160/mo.

Want another HDD? Lets say the raw cost is $40, don't forget to add $40 in labor cost, since NOC staff can't be responding to calls or emails while they plugin and test HDD's. So that is $80 / 5 = $16, round up to $20.

Don't forget servers also have power and storage costs. Your average (cheap) server draws around 200watt. (200 watt * (30 days x 24 hours)) / 1000 * 17c (kwh) = ~$25/mo in power cost, then you need to figure a rack costs around $800/mo, and with ~20 servers in it that is $40 per server.

Lets be nice and just say a server costs $60/mo in power and storage. Our original $800 server will cost us $720 to run the first year, for a first year total of $1,520. Your $160/mo brings in $1,920 in the same year, for a total profit of $400. Don't forget income tax, 24 hour employee support costs, insurance, etc...

So STFU retard.
 
What your dumb ass doesn't realize is that for a dedicated server provider to make money, they need to break even on their hardware within five months. Why? Because they know that in 12 months you're going to be able to get a faster server for the same price, and they don't want to be stuck peddling old shit to new customers.

So, if a server costs them say $800 to build (they have to pay for someones time also remember), then they are going to rent it for ~$160/mo.

Want another HDD? Lets say the raw cost is $40, don't forget to add $40 in labor cost, since NOC staff can't be responding to calls or emails while they plugin and test HDD's. So that is $80 / 5 = $16, round up to $20.

Don't forget servers also have power and storage costs. Your average (cheap) server draws around 200watt. (200 watt * (30 days x 24 hours)) / 1000 * 17c (kwh) = ~$25/mo in power cost, then you need to figure a rack costs around $800/mo, and with ~20 servers in it that is $40 per server.

Lets be nice and just say a server costs $60/mo in power and storage. Our original $800 server will cost us $720 to run the first year, for a first year total of $1,520. Your $160/mo brings in $1,920 in the same year, for a total profit of $400. Don't forget income tax, 24 hour employee support costs, insurance, etc...

So STFU retard.


What he said (*although I would have posted it with less insults :P)
 
What your dumb ass doesn't realize is that for a dedicated server provider to make money, they need to break even on their hardware within five months. Why? Because they know that in 12 months you're going to be able to get a faster server for the same price, and they don't want to be stuck peddling old shit to new customers.

So, if a server costs them say $800 to build (they have to pay for someones time also remember), then they are going to rent it for ~$160/mo.

Want another HDD? Lets say the raw cost is $40, don't forget to add $40 in labor cost, since NOC staff can't be responding to calls or emails while they plugin and test HDD's. So that is $80 / 5 = $16, round up to $20.

Don't forget servers also have power and storage costs. Your average (cheap) server draws around 200watt. (200 watt * (30 days x 24 hours)) / 1000 * 17c (kwh) = ~$25/mo in power cost, then you need to figure a rack costs around $800/mo, and with ~20 servers in it that is $40 per server.

Lets be nice and just say a server costs $60/mo in power and storage. Our original $800 server will cost us $720 to run the first year, for a first year total of $1,520. Your $160/mo brings in $1,920 in the same year, for a total profit of $400. Don't forget income tax, 24 hour employee support costs, insurance, etc...

So STFU retard.

Well said. Plus, assuming it's a datacenter, the cost of cooling the server rooms.
 
What your dumb ass doesn't realize is that for a dedicated server provider to make money, they need to break even on their hardware within five months. Why? Because they know that in 12 months you're going to be able to get a faster server for the same price, and they don't want to be stuck peddling old shit to new customers.

So, if a server costs them say $800 to build (they have to pay for someones time also remember), then they are going to rent it for ~$160/mo.

Want another HDD? Lets say the raw cost is $40, don't forget to add $40 in labor cost, since NOC staff can't be responding to calls or emails while they plugin and test HDD's. So that is $80 / 5 = $16, round up to $20.

Don't forget servers also have power and storage costs. Your average (cheap) server draws around 200watt. (200 watt * (30 days x 24 hours)) / 1000 * 17c (kwh) = ~$25/mo in power cost, then you need to figure a rack costs around $800/mo, and with ~20 servers in it that is $40 per server.

Lets be nice and just say a server costs $60/mo in power and storage. Our original $800 server will cost us $720 to run the first year, for a first year total of $1,520. Your $160/mo brings in $1,920 in the same year, for a total profit of $400. Don't forget income tax, 24 hour employee support costs, insurance, etc...

So STFU retard.


It sounds like you need a better business model, because all i saw was bitching. From what you said it sounds like you buy a server, make me pay for it, then throw it away (no value), and then buy new ones because no one will ever use the server again and you can't sell it.

What you left out in your insults and grips about your business is that once the server is paid for you can sell it for at least half the cost to build it. Yes tech moves fast but you don't need the latest and greatest to run a simple html server. It it was good enough to run high end resource heavy site then they it will be able to do the same thing next year. Java, html, php do not move as fast as high end games. It will not be top of the line but its not useless.

Which brings me to another thing, you have a server paid off by some idiot renting it for your crazy prices. If you didn't just cash out you still have a server that could be sold at a discounted rate, a hybrid plan, or even some sort of shared hosting. Don't even try it with your crying that it will be worthless to you in one year. I expect any good business man could get 2-3yrs out of a server and even then still sell it on ebay or CL.

Also if you started with servers, you would have to sell one of them to put in the new one. You at least got $100-200 bucks to invest into the new server if not more. Who here has seen P4 servers on CL sell for $100? Because I have.

If everyone only wanted the most high end, newest server there would not be so many companies offering different options. I have seen dedicated mac-minis, I have seen dedicated 1.2Ghz ATOM servers (wtf), you really think next year someone is not going to pay to have a i7 in their machine.

Clearly your vision is to closed minded for you to find better ways to make your company more profitable than ripping your customers off.

And for everyone here saying how much colo would cost, I have already researched the costs involved. It basically comes out to $160-200 for colo, yes its unmanged you will have to hire someone for that. But its your box! If you want 16GB of ram in the thing then you can do it. How much would a provider charge your for 16gb of ram? Do you want a RAID? or SSD fuck it you can do it. The initial cost to you will be 1-2k but the same tech from a host would be 500+/MO. Pay yourself off in 5months not them.

Wiredtree gave me a great deal since I was already a customer on my dedi, so ill stick with that for now. But I am already making a shopping list for my new dedi box.
 
It sounds like you need a better business model, because all i saw was bitching. From what you said it sounds like you buy a server, make me pay for it, then throw it away (no value), and then buy new ones because no one will ever use the server again and you can't sell it.

What you left out in your insults and grips about your business is that once the server is paid for you can sell it for at least half the cost to build it. Yes tech moves fast but you don't need the latest and greatest to run a simple html server. It it was good enough to run high end resource heavy site then they it will be able to do the same thing next year. Java, html, php do not move as fast as high end games. It will not be top of the line but its not useless.

Which brings me to another thing, you have a server paid off by some idiot renting it for your crazy prices. If you didn't just cash out you still have a server that could be sold at a discounted rate, a hybrid plan, or even some sort of shared hosting. Don't even try it with your crying that it will be worthless to you in one year. I expect any good business man could get 2-3yrs out of a server and even then still sell it on ebay or CL.

Also if you started with servers, you would have to sell one of them to put in the new one. You at least got $100-200 bucks to invest into the new server if not more. Who here has seen P4 servers on CL sell for $100? Because I have.

If everyone only wanted the most high end, newest server there would not be so many companies offering different options. I have seen dedicated mac-minis, I have seen dedicated 1.2Ghz ATOM servers (wtf), you really think next year someone is not going to pay to have a i7 in their machine.

Clearly your vision is to closed minded for you to find better ways to make your company more profitable than ripping your customers off.

And for everyone here saying how much colo would cost, I have already researched the costs involved. It basically comes out to $160-200 for colo, yes its unmanged you will have to hire someone for that. But its your box! If you want 16GB of ram in the thing then you can do it. How much would a provider charge your for 16gb of ram? Do you want a RAID? or SSD fuck it you can do it. The initial cost to you will be 1-2k but the same tech from a host would be 500+/MO. Pay yourself off in 5months not them.

Wiredtree gave me a great deal since I was already a customer on my dedi, so ill stick with that for now. But I am already making a shopping list for my new dedi box.

I went to google, and hit the 'Whining to English Translator'. This is what it came up with:


"I'm angry because I want people to do things for me for no cost. So, the first thing I will do, is assume everything is very simple. That way I can treat gross profits as net. Then I will be outraged at business making money while I make none. How dare a business make a profit! They should all just find VC monies and give me my stuff for free at a loss."


The problem is dude, while socialists/communists might agree with you, most people here are business men. We like the concept of for-profit business, and understand that there is more to it than what meets the eye.

Good day sir!
 
I went to google, and hit the 'Whining to English Translator'. This is what it came up with:


"I'm angry because I want people to do things for me for no cost. So, the first thing I will do, is assume everything is very simple. That way I can treat gross profits as net. Then I will be outraged at business making money while I make none. How dare a business make a profit! They should all just find VC monies and give me my stuff for free at a loss."


The problem is dude, while socialists/communists might agree with you, most people here are business men. We like the concept of for-profit business, and understand that there is more to it than what meets the eye.

Good day sir!

Its clear that most of your are in or have friends in the hosting business and are not customers. Do you also rent your house and lease your car? Banks and car dealers need to make money too!
 
Its clear that most of your are in or have friends in the hosting business and are not customers. Do you also rent your house and lease your car? Banks and car dealers need to make money too!

You sir are a grade A idiot that deserves to fall into a fire.