My point is that our sense of right and wrong is cultural; we aren't born with the sense that certain actions are good or evil. What really interests me about it is that we aren't the only animal with culture.
Edit: Happy 800 posts me.
Do you believe in Evil?
- Thread starter turbolapp
- Start date
Edit: Happy 800 posts me.
It is all perspective and intent. What is good to one person is evil to another. What is good in one situation is evil in another situation. There is no such thing as either, it is all energy and we are to interpret it as we will. As humans we create our own standards during different time periods and for different civilizations. What was evil 500 years ago may not be evil today. What is evil today may be good 500 years in the future. I am writing a book on this very topic.
Round number of posts = boobs.
I think you're mixing-up two things: the sense of right and wrong is not cultural, it is common across all people; the things we consider right or wrong are cultural though.
But we have always had a feeling that some things are good and some things are evil.
Do I believe in evil? I see it the other way around. Everything is evil, except the few good sparks in life I tend to find here and there.
To me evil is just a term for extreme immorality / corruption / deprivation. I think that it's possible to think about evil without it having a supernatural attachment.
Evil is the point at which a person makes a major violation of the 'golden rule' in pursuit of their own goals. Evil does not imply that a person is wholly bad or that they lack compassion and empathy, but that they allowed one weakness of theirs to erode to the point where evil deeds seem justified. This can be out of love, paranoia, jealousy, pride, greed, any human impulse can result in evil if the right conditions are met. No one is born evil, they are simply put in circumstances where their own goals seem more important than the welfare of others.
"The standard of value of the Objectivist ethics - he standard by which one judges what is good or evil - is man’s life, or: that which is required for man’s survival qua man. Since reason is man’s basic means of survival, that which is proper to the life of a rational being is the good; that which negates, opposes or destroys it is the evil."
- Ayn Rand
- Ayn Rand
So what you're saying is we should kill stupid people? I can get behind that.
Just kidding. I can understand this viewpoint.
I think that evil is an important concept, moral nihilism is a road I went down, and to paraphrase Nietzsche;
I stared into the abyss and the abyss stared back
The way humans perceive reality is driven by abstractions and delusions. None of them are real, but in some cases they can be very helpful and not by accident either.
A philosophy, even if it believes in something not real (which atheists do as well), can inform us about modes and patterns of behavior consistent with our ends.
In other words, I might believe in Jesus, who is not real, and follow what I believe to be his ethic, which has real positive effects on my social relationships and life. You could get there another way.
Worrying about which totem or belief system is best aesthetically avoids the real question.
"Will this belief system produce results consistent with (my definition of ) a happy and healthy life?"
I stared into the abyss and the abyss stared back
The way humans perceive reality is driven by abstractions and delusions. None of them are real, but in some cases they can be very helpful and not by accident either.
A philosophy, even if it believes in something not real (which atheists do as well), can inform us about modes and patterns of behavior consistent with our ends.
In other words, I might believe in Jesus, who is not real, and follow what I believe to be his ethic, which has real positive effects on my social relationships and life. You could get there another way.
Worrying about which totem or belief system is best aesthetically avoids the real question.
"Will this belief system produce results consistent with (my definition of ) a happy and healthy life?"
Well it depends on their motives for doing the bad things tho. If they actually enjoy behaving badly and weren't just preconditioned to do it for whatever reason, then how can it be anything other than evil?
The opposite is true too; people who have a lifetime habit of bad behavior, even murders, could be the product of bad parenting, laws, peer pressure, or society in general that made them think this behavior is somehow normal or warranted given their situation. I would not call this Evil; it is simply "sick."
Most of the predjudice in our society is geared towards this type of behavior though, such as the worldstarhiphop goers. What a bunch of sick bastards...
Those ppl really need help, (forced or otherwise) - Not to be stuck away in prison. (And especially not on my dime!)
I believe in evil. I believe it's a collective energy that can reach tipping points and cause massive shifts in society. I also believe that when that point is reached, many normally moral people will take part in evils they normally wouldn't. I also think we are getting close to one of these negative energy tipping points in our current society.
If you take pleasure in other people unnecessary suffering, or make other suffer for your own benefit without remorse, you are evil. Evil is a lack of empathy.
It has also to do something with imagination. The more imaginative you are the more twisted shit you are able to come up with.
ie. if you put a man with a wild lion in a cage, in most cases a man will be dead in few seconds by mauling or by having his throat bitten because all he wants to do is eat. You don't need to worry about lion torturing you for hours like poking your eye with a needle or taking out your teeth one by one or skinning you alive.
It has also to do something with imagination. The more imaginative you are the more twisted shit you are able to come up with.
ie. if you put a man with a wild lion in a cage, in most cases a man will be dead in few seconds by mauling or by having his throat bitten because all he wants to do is eat. You don't need to worry about lion torturing you for hours like poking your eye with a needle or taking out your teeth one by one or skinning you alive.
Yeah I don't get how this is evil to be honest. I'm trying to take care of myself and the people on my "team" so to speak, and everyone else needs to take care of themselves unless that's not what you meant at all in which case my bad homie.
I understand OPs position. As you 'zoom' out of our little lives, meanings that are there are lost and everything starts to 'fuz together'.
From my very human perspective, when I see a millionaire do things that cause people who are already hungry to starve, just so he/she can have a New private jet that is a x900 instead of x400, I feel that is evil.
But I can't condemn it too much. Simply because when I 'zoom' out of my human perspective, that type of ruthless pushing, is the same forces that drive evolution and that allowed humans to be humans. So I see that 'evil' is what shaped us, so where does that leave 'evil'?
So do I 'feel there is evil'? Yes. Do I condemn evil as such? I have a hard time not to, but a hard time doing it also
And yes, I know I'm being contradictory, but I believe the nature of reality is too complex for us to fully understand, therefore I accept contradictory truths under the belief that it all likely makes sense to a create that isn't as primitive as I.
From my very human perspective, when I see a millionaire do things that cause people who are already hungry to starve, just so he/she can have a New private jet that is a x900 instead of x400, I feel that is evil.
But I can't condemn it too much. Simply because when I 'zoom' out of my human perspective, that type of ruthless pushing, is the same forces that drive evolution and that allowed humans to be humans. So I see that 'evil' is what shaped us, so where does that leave 'evil'?
So do I 'feel there is evil'? Yes. Do I condemn evil as such? I have a hard time not to, but a hard time doing it also
And yes, I know I'm being contradictory, but I believe the nature of reality is too complex for us to fully understand, therefore I accept contradictory truths under the belief that it all likely makes sense to a create that isn't as primitive as I.
So in your mind, people like Hitler were not "evil", they were simply guilty of "bad behavior"?
This subject is of great interest to me.. I've recently had a major shift in the way I view life in general. Before I was of the strictest scientific beliefs. If it wasn't on paper, I didn't believe it. More recently I've realized how ignorant that is. There is so much to this world we have not yet discovered.. The positive and negative energies (good and evil) that are inherent in people, and how those energies interact and collectively affect the world is one area in which I hope we see "scientific" progress. I do believe we choose our sides so to speak.. Do these energies release upon death only to be absorbed by the next life form (reincarnation)? Do they contribute to two separate energy "pools" to be drawn upon when needed? Is the "positive pool" heaven? Is the "negative pool" purgatory? Is any of this related to anti-matter? Is it a worthy life goal to cultivate and therefore release as much positive energy as possible?
I have no fucking clue really, but it's all super interesting shit. The only thing i'm sure of is that there's most definitely more than meets the eye in this world.
I think I should take shrooms.
I have no fucking clue really, but it's all super interesting shit. The only thing i'm sure of is that there's most definitely more than meets the eye in this world.
I think I should take shrooms.
