Thinking of hitting up local businesses that don't have websites.

[d_diggler]

Find locals that are advertising with Adwords and have complete shit websites. I'm seriously like 5/6 on that.

Start with a new design > Take over and optimize Adwords > Reocurring SEO > Add Fanpage + Online Rep Managment

Fuckin money and shit.

This is a fuckin great idea - if they client is marketing via AdWords it shows they're interested in online and willing to spend some money.

Almost every small to medium size business who trys AdWords without the help of an agency or consultant does a super retarded job of it and anyone with even basic PPC experience should be able to do a better job.

You can deliver value almost straight away and then it's just upsell upsell upsell...

 

[metalshark]

This is a fuckin great idea - if they client is marketing via AdWords it shows they're interested in online and willing to spend some money.

Almost every small to medium size business who trys AdWords without the help of an agency or consultant does a super retarded job of it and anyone with even basic PPC experience should be able to do a better job.

You can deliver value almost straight away and then it's just upsell upsell upsell...

sssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

 

[|<ick Bac|<]

You can tell if a client is going to be a pain in the ass within the first 2 minutes of your initial conversation anyway. If they ask you why they need to be advertising on the internet, then just move on. Let me emphasize this again: these people are not worth the hell they are about to put you through. Period.

every post in this thread is exact right on. especially with restaurants - yelp, google places and urbanspoon pretty much have that content cornered. most people are only looking for menus and reviews anyway.

however, when it comes to cheap or pita business owners why not turn lemon into lemonade?? they have other valuables to offer if they aint willing to fork over any cash.

 

[Jeeta]

Any half intelligent small business owner in this day and age will be asking what's the measurable ROI of having a website. If you can't demonstrate there is one, then in my opinion you're totally wasting your time.

 

[lose lose win]

however, when it comes to cheap or pita business owners why not turn lemon into lemonade?? they have other valuables to offer if they aint willing to fork over any cash.

THIS. I'm new as hell to this, so to get started and build up a little portfolio I've been bartering. Currently I get free beef from my local butcher, free gym membership, and a shit load of free tamales from my good friend Gusto!

I'm sure to most here, this is probably a waste of time, but it allowed me to get started before mt skills are where they need to be for me to be confident enough to try for serious clients. Not to mention, it's easy as hell. Biz's that I'm already a customer of and spend money on their shit anyways, are super willing to do some bartering.

Plus it's kinda cool to take a date to a restaurant and the meal is free bc you do their "web development". Shit works better than alcohol.

 

[hehejo]

THIS. I'm new as hell to this, so to get started and build up a little portfolio I've been bartering. Currently I get free beef from my local butcher, free gym membership, and a shit load of free tamales from my good friend Gusto!

I'm sure to most here, this is probably a waste of time, but it allowed me to get started before mt skills are where they need to be for me to be confident enough to try for serious clients. Not to mention, it's easy as hell. Biz's that I'm already a customer of and spend money on their shit anyways, are super willing to do some bartering.

Plus it's kinda cool to take a date to a restaurant and the meal is free bc you do their "web development". Shit works better than alcohol.

Please elaborate on how you set up the deals. Very interested in this as I might do something similar soon for someone.

 

[lose lose win]

Please elaborate on how you set up the deals. Very interested in this as I might do something similar soon for someone.

Man, I wish I could give you something actionable and that I could pass as a systemized marketing plan, but in reality, it's very amateur. I keep it as casual as possible, mainly bc I feel like i don't have the value to offer my services on a professional level. But I knew it was important to just get the ball rolling in any way I can.

The first one i actually did for free (much like anyone who offers services in BST would) for my butcher that I've been buying meat from for years. This super nice old man that has the best beef in town and cheaper than Walmart, Kroger, etc... The guy has a superior product at a cheaper price, easy sell, people just don't know about it. Got to talking with him about how it was on the news that most retailers fill their beef with that nasty shit called "pink slime".. that is literally the name of it, it's disgusting. The first thing that pops in my head is "pain point".. I told him this was a prime time for him to make himself stand out, and to solve a problem that was on lots of peoples minds at the time.. but he was absolutely clueless about ANY forms of marketing his biz. I just told him that I'd like to help him out and that I do "internet shit". He said Ok, and that's what I did. Started an "anti pink slime" campaign, sponsored by "name of his butcher". Did a little social, threw him up a crappy WP site and next thing I know... his fucking business increases, and he starts giving me shit that I used to buy anyway. It was a GREAT feeling, I gotta say. I didn't do it with intentions of making money, I did it to help this old man who's been running a biz for 30 years but is living in a tech/marketing world beyond his grasp. I solved his problem, he solved mine.

Next one was similar. This Mexican guy that I've known for 10 years goes all over town selling tamales, and they are fucking delicious. (You'd be surprised how much he makes doing this... prolly more than 50% here, me included) I buy a dozen every month or so. Saw this guy working his ass off to support his family and offered to help him at no charge.. Threw up a crappy WP site again, printed him up some super basic brochures to hand out, since he sees his customers in person all the time this was a no brainer.. couple months go buy.. and fucking Gusto starts dropping off free tamales every week lol. I have like 50 in the fridge right now.. I usually feed them to stray dogs and cats. I'm not sure if my efforts helped as much as they did the butcher but I guess he appreciates it regardless.

This got me to thinking... and for now it's kind of my "strategy". Just offer to help small businesses for free and see what happens... I bet more often than not, you will be more than compensated for your time. This shit comes so easy to us... just a basic WP site, and maybe a FB page takes a couple of hours, but it seems like magic to those not in the space. And when you offer it for free.. they almost can't fucking believe it. They are always super excited and appreciative. Makes me feel good and I develop friendships rather than business relationships.

Now I'm just started to "target" other small business owners not that I think I can get to convert... but that I think I can help. I have a few right now where I'm just becoming their customer before I ever bring up any IM stuff. It's a shift in thinking, that I think will pay off over time. I may be wrong though, and I'm not saying anybody should take this route. I happen to still be working full time so I have some leeway with what I do. If I can't help them, then I really don't want their money.. I talked about this in the Vitamin D thread.. I used to do this when I was a trainer and it worked like magic then, so I can only assume the same principles apply for local web development.

Not trying to come off like some fucking guardian angel, running around doing gigs for free helping out my fellow man in need.. I want to make money.. I'm just realizing how real and powerful the equation is: $$$ = the amount of people you help.

 

[infoslob]

I usually only hit up business who are advertising on local newspapers, leaflets, directories and stuff.

Solid.

Because a business doesn't advertise the fact that they don't have a marketing budget.

(And yet we've still seen worse ad spends.)

 

[hehejo]

...

Thanks a lot.

I thought that maybe you had an agreement beforehand with them. Say for example that for a website + maintenance you get 1kg beef each week.

 

[CCarter]

Most local business are barely making ends meet. They are the worst clients, since they are small business and have the small business mentality. The want everything for free, and they have very little cash on hand, if they did have cash, they would have had a website by now if they have been established for a while. Getting payment from them is a hassle. I would go the urbanspoon and mobile website route, at least you know they are in your market, versus someone that doesn't believe in the internet.

First you have to convince them why the internet is good for their business.

Second you have to convince them you know what you are doing.

Third you have to convince them to pay you want you are worth.

Fourth, you have to be able to find them on "payday", and that's a miracle in itself, good luck getting them to pay you on time ever.

It's a lot easier to sell someone who has a website already on urbanspoon than it will be to convince a restaurant or local business owner who, in 2012, doesn't have a website.

 

[lose lose win]

Thanks a lot.

I thought that maybe you had an agreement beforehand with them. Say for example that for a website + maintenance you get 1kg beef each week.

"Hey motherfucker, You were short three tamales last week!.. Fucking with my tamales is like fucking with my emotions!"

 

[hehejo]

"Hey motherfucker, You were short three tamales last week!.. Fucking with my tamales is like fucking with my emotions!"

I was thinking more along the lines of free gym membership (what I got offered). I was thinking that it could work for other areas too.

 

[Celtik]

"Hey motherfucker, You were short three tamales last week!.. Fucking with my tamales is like fucking with my emotions!"

I'm interested in knowing how you worked out the deal for the free gym membership

 

[tygoldberg]

THIS. I'm new as hell to this, so to get started and build up a little portfolio I've been bartering. Currently I get free beef from my local butcher, free gym membership, and a shit load of free tamales from my good friend Gusto!

I'm sure to most here, this is probably a waste of time, but it allowed me to get started before mt skills are where they need to be for me to be confident enough to try for serious clients. Not to mention, it's easy as hell. Biz's that I'm already a customer of and spend money on their shit anyways, are super willing to do some bartering.

Plus it's kinda cool to take a date to a restaurant and the meal is free bc you do their "web development". Shit works better than alcohol.

bartering is the oldest currency known to man.

 

[Uptime]

Find locals that are advertising with Adwords and have complete shit websites. I'm seriously like 5/6 on that.

Start with a new design > Take over and optimize Adwords > Reocurring SEO > Add Fanpage + Online Rep Managment

Fuckin money and shit.

This is a fuckin great idea - if they client is marketing via AdWords it shows they're interested in online and willing to spend some money.

Almost every small to medium size business who trys AdWords without the help of an agency or consultant does a super retarded job of it and anyone with even basic PPC experience should be able to do a better job.

You can deliver value almost straight away and then it's just upsell upsell upsell...

Yes and yes. Also if you are doing the local organic for a client do a free performance eval of their PPC especially if outsourced and ABSOLUTELY if AT&T / YPI is involved. 9 out of 10 times if AT&T they are not actively managing the campaign and ripping them off.

Now is the time. YP this time of year is spending the majority of their annual client acquisition / retention budget to get businesses to sign up for another year of taking it up the backside. This past week scored an easy account of $8-10k / month ad spend. Met with the client during their meeting with AT&T and embarrassed them enough to heavily discount a $4.5k / month YP print, upped their YPI directory priority listings (another ripoff) and pulled all of the PPC action (G., Bing & Yahoo) from them.

The AT&T YP sales guys are worth taken a lesson from. The bait and switch / smoke and mirrors shell game of offering the uninformed business owner x amount of PPC for upping their print budget is legendary. Run the numbers on the campaigns actual performance and put into a language the owner can understand. 1% CTR using one single landing page for over 1,400 keywords, 15 ad groups, same ads used from beginning never a split test. Average cost per phone call to the owner almost $400 with an LTV that could not support a fraction of that. Also show the owner that while they promised him a budget of x per month actual clicks purchased means that over 65% of this alleged PPC account went up in smoke or management fees or whatever but did not turn into clicks purchased.

Client still need a little nudge off the fence? Casually mention pages of complaints, ripoff reports and class action lawsuits against the company they are paying thou$ands a month to. No need to provide urls. Let the client Google it.

As much as I'm trying to phase out client work the next few weeks before business owners re-up with their YP managed PPC sales rep, is prime time.

As mentioned by dig you don't even have to be good at this. If you know the basics it is possible to look better than a billion dollar corporation who outsourced the one landing page did no keyword research and never looked at the campaign again.

If a potential client is using AT&T for their PPC ask them for their "onlinereports.com" login info. If the performance is like what I keep seeing a new client or additional profit center is a spreadsheet away.

 

[WeTry]

To lose lose win...

Thanks for your insight on dealing with local business. Over the last five years have done a few sites for friends in the service industry. Initial cost was low or perhaps free... But if my AC unit craps the bed or the yard sprinkler system needs repair, its a no charge fix. Why?...because the site is working, and they know it! Fair is fair, and what goes 'round, come 'round.

Meanwhile, in the last five years things have changed... we've got lots of new technology, CMS platforms, social networks, Mobile and Pad hardware, etc. that was not there a few years back. My guys have slipped from #3 or #4 to #15 or #25 in G search. Strangely, despite the slip in rank their traffic has increased, and I know their business has increased cause they tell me so. If Alexa rank means anything, their competition is getting 10 time the traffic, and probably 10 times the business.

Have been working on a strategy to put my guys back on top, and if successful their business will increase, but thanx to the new net it will require monthly maintenance to maintain their position....and that's how we'll pay the rent.

Am in beta now on a couple of sites...the next few months should be very interesting.

 

[efeezy]

Good info here. I'm getting some ideas what to and not to do.

 

[adamx12m]

Cheap clients are the worst because they want the world, they want it fast, and they don't want to pay for it.

Add in non-profit organizations, they think it's a privilege to work for them cheap or free.

 

[Wicked Ice]

I find that small businesses are broke most of the times. And they are PITA. I hate dealing with them. I dealt with some before.

 

[KopfjägerSEO]

Been doing this for 5 years now. It's a total love/hate business! The only love comes when clients actually pay on time. Never felt so "trapped" in my life at times. Every fucking month all you can think about is if you'll get paid for the next or how hard you're going to have to fight again for your payments so you can continue to build their business.

Probably the most thankless job I've ever done. Even when you can prove massive growth, client acquisition, ROI, market authority, or any other metric that proves you are an incredibly valuable asset to their business, if not THE most valuable asset to their entire fucking existence, you'll still most likely be let down at the end of the month. The problem is "they can't SEE" what you are doing so therefore it's hard for them to justify month over month. They'll treat you like a celebrity the day you get them that #1 ranking, 2 days later they'll be asking why they don't have 1000 new blue widget orders (even though you were very clear that blue widgets gets 1000 exacts per month, only expect 10% of that, and I have no control of what your dumb ass secretary says to customers when they call so don't blame me). Great upsell for CRO at that point though....

Well that was how it was for the last 4 1/2 years. I changed my entire game plan over the last 6 months and it's MUCH better! Fuck these fuckin' mother fuckers and don't give them control or ownership of ANYTHING! It's the only way to make them respect payment, the value you bring to the table, and the fact that at any fucking second, you can give everything to their competitor down the street with a phone call and a change to where the phone calls forward and where the auto responder leads go to. TRACK EVERYTHING AND MAKE SURE THEY ALWAYS KNOW WHAT THEY CAN LOSE BY NOT RESPECTING YOU OR WHAT YOUR COMPANY BRINGS TO THE TABLE! This data is also gold when it comes to non payment issues and getting his competitor onboard with one phone call. If you've done a good job, you'll already know and have spoken to his competitors and turned them down.

So now, instead of building their business and assets you're building YOUR business and assets! It's also a great way to lock someone in a contract. Drive paid leads on a month to month on retainer, the second they are late redirect new leads to the competitor they are always talking about (make sure to always be mining for their most hated competitors and pain points, this is fuel for future psy-ops). Trust me, if you were bringing true value they will beg for you back, pay up, and sign a 1-3 year contract.

I know you are just talking about doing this casually but it's easy to get "sucked in" and before you know it you feel like a slave to these ungrateful fucks who call themselves SMB's.

You can fairly easily build a $XX,XXX month business, even more, but trust me you'll be working 12+ hours per day 7 days per week keeping these people "happy".

I've now cut off all new client work and am starting an ecommerce site which client money will bankroll. If it's a means to an end then it was all worth it but it's definitely been a hell of a road. Good luck if you decide to go down that road! Sorry to sound so negative, but it really is a tough biz, client work that is.