What's Communism?
- Thread starter Chief Broham
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I think that's the point though. The reason we refer to Marx's ideas as Marxist, rather than Communist, is because those that took the Communist label, changed it's meaning by instituting an overbearing, restrictive, controlling State - the exact opposite of what Marx's communism called for.
If that had never happened, I don't think we would have a need for the word "Marxist". We use that word to differentiate the communism codified by Marx and Engels, from the "communism" put into practice by Lenin (and especially Stalin, Mao, etc).
Again, that's the point - but maybe it's semantics. I like the way it was summed up on ADivisionByZero:
The important point is that the communism we've seen implemented in our lifetimes (USSR, China, Vietnam, North Korea, Cuba and a few others), and the philosophy of Marx are not just different, but almost exact opposites. Like Redshield said, if you want to keep the term "Communism" to describe Marxist thought then that means we have to stop calling Stalin, Lenin, Mao etc communists.
That's all.
Well we'll do that then, as that would be more accurate!
The article on ADivisionByZero basically says that the USSR wasn't communist, which is what i was saying.
I'd rather take the Communist Manifesto as the basis for the ideas of communism, than a right wing dictatorship.
What I've gleaned from scanning this thread is that communists are known for being white and having kicks ass beards.
I feel like a lot of anarchists have kick ass beards too, but then I feel like those anarchists are communists, and then I get angry because I remember that tons of people who identify as anarchists believe in communism and it fucks me up how any intelligent person sees those two things as inclusive of each other.
In the Communist Manifesto, Marx describes the process of dialectical materialism, where class warfare drives societal evolution to the state of communism, at which point everyone gets along and the government withers away from disuse. I believed that shit in 5th grade when I first read it, because I was a fucking naive 12 year-old.
Also, if Marxism is not Communism, why is it in the title of his Manifesto? Yeah, I understand there have been a myriad of fucked up implementations, skipping over the necessary per-requisites of industrialization and all, but that's like saying my website is not a website because it sucks, or Catholicism is not Christianity cause its far from the original church. It might suck, but it is what it is. I sympathize with the idea that we shouldn't call Leninism Communism, but you certainly wouldn't call it Capitalism.
This is my dog:
I feel like a lot of anarchists have kick ass beards too, but then I feel like those anarchists are communists, and then I get angry because I remember that tons of people who identify as anarchists believe in communism and it fucks me up how any intelligent person sees those two things as inclusive of each other.
In the Communist Manifesto, Marx describes the process of dialectical materialism, where class warfare drives societal evolution to the state of communism, at which point everyone gets along and the government withers away from disuse. I believed that shit in 5th grade when I first read it, because I was a fucking naive 12 year-old.
Also, if Marxism is not Communism, why is it in the title of his Manifesto? Yeah, I understand there have been a myriad of fucked up implementations, skipping over the necessary per-requisites of industrialization and all, but that's like saying my website is not a website because it sucks, or Catholicism is not Christianity cause its far from the original church. It might suck, but it is what it is. I sympathize with the idea that we shouldn't call Leninism Communism, but you certainly wouldn't call it Capitalism.
This is my dog:
Soviet Uniion was not in communism, they used to say they build communism on the bodies of people, it's on the horizon, wait just a lil' bit and you'll get there LOL
Why do people that forum spam and keyword stuff call themselves SEO's? Why do we call it the "Department of Defense", when it's job is now imperialism, not defense? Why is Lil Wayne called a rapper, just like Rakim or Chuck D? Just because incompetent or corrupt people take a label and make it their own, doesn't mean that they are doing the same thing.
Marxism (as we call it now) was communism, until the Bolsheviks and others corrupted its meaning. When people now refer to communism, what they are really referring to is Bolshevism under Lenin and Stalin (and later iterations like Maoism etc). But Stalin basically just rebranded the Party as "Communists" a few years after WWII and so they stopped being Bolsheviks, and started being Communists. At that point, Marx and his communism were a long way back in the rear view mirror.
Of course not. I've seen it called "State Capitalism", but like you, I haven't followed their shit closely for years because to me the whole idea is silly.
Exactly. That's how this whole thing started - comparing Marx to Stalin, Lenin and Trotsky and labeling them all communists. Whichever label applies is fine, but calling them all communists is misleading and inaccurate unless we're willing to accept a word with two opposite definitions.
If we decide to start calling cats "dogs", and dogs "cats" - that's fine. But then we couldn't say that since dogs used to be called "dogs", and now cats are called "dogs", then cats and dogs are the same thing.
Like Shakespeare said, "A rose by any other name would smell as sweet". It doesn't matter what we call something, it matters what it is.
"So what I love about anarcho-capitalism is its inclusion... You can... decide to share everything in common and all that. So what I don't like about anarcho-communism is that it doesn't allow for anarcho-capitalism. What I do like about anarcho-capitalism is that it fully allows for anarcho-communism." - Stefan Molyneux
a bit after 8 minutes in :
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uF_-0xaZzH0]'How To Achieve Freedom' - Anarchast Ep. 3 With Stefan Molyneux of Freedomain Radio - YouTube[/ame]
a bit after 8 minutes in :
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uF_-0xaZzH0]'How To Achieve Freedom' - Anarchast Ep. 3 With Stefan Molyneux of Freedomain Radio - YouTube[/ame]
Haven't watched the video yet, but I totally agree with Molyneux on this point. I guess I was unclear in early morning rambling. What I meant is that if you visit a place like /r/anarchy, there are a ton of people who hate capitalism and think that universal communism is the only way. Certainly, in a voluntaryist world, communists are free to live together as communists.
Thanks for the video, anyway. I got tired of listening to Molyneux a long time ago, mostly because the volume of content was too much to handle. Maybe I'll check out some his newer stuff.
Thanks for the video, anyway. I got tired of listening to Molyneux a long time ago, mostly because the volume of content was too much to handle. Maybe I'll check out some his newer stuff.
Marx is a communist cos it was 'im wot done it'
If that's not communism in the way we understand it in the west as Redshield said, then our understanding of it is wrong.
Though like i say, i prefer Engels. He got down and dirty with the proletariat in Manchester. But Englesism sounds like one of the diseases he might have picked up why he was there.
If that's not communism in the way we understand it in the west as Redshield said, then our understanding of it is wrong.
Though like i say, i prefer Engels. He got down and dirty with the proletariat in Manchester. But Englesism sounds like one of the diseases he might have picked up why he was there.