$50k of free credit processing from BrainTree



So can I transfer $50k from my CC and then withdraw in order to make a quick $750 in CC rewards?
 
Ben89 said:
How is this laundering money? No, seriously. It's like playing hot potatoes with money.
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Ok. Since you are obviously not the sharpest tool in the shed, here goes:

What is Money Laundering?
Money laundering, at its simplest, is the act of making money that comes from Source A look like it comes from Source B.

What are you doing in the text you mentioned?
You claimed $50k income came from Source A (sales you made; there isn't a processor code for 'money laundering to get CC rewards'), when in reality it came from Source B (your own CC, no sales).

Now, think about this for a second. Do you think you would be paid the $50k+750 back? Do you think the merchants don't have stuff in their fine print to prevent this? Do you think this can't be easily traced?

Seriously, Google exists. It has for a while. Look up. Read. Learn. It works. You will then not have to be asking stupid questions which expose your limited understanding of the reality you live in.

P.S. Yes, I can be a dick, I know.
 
greenleaves said:
Ok. Since you are obviously not the sharpest tool in the shed, here goes:

What is Money Laundering?
Money laundering, at its simplest, is the act of making money that comes from Source A look like it comes from Source B.

What are you doing in the text you mentioned?
You claimed $50k income came from Source A (sales you made; there isn't a processor code for 'money laundering to get CC rewards'), when in reality it came from Source B (your own CC, no sales).

Now, think about this for a second. Do you think you would be paid the $50k+750 back? Do you think the merchants don't have stuff in their fine print to prevent this? Do you think this can't be easily traced?

Seriously, Google exists. It has for a while. Look up. Read. Learn. It works. You will then not have to be asking stupid questions which expose your limited understanding of the reality you live in.

P.S. Yes, I can be a dick, I know.
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Definition of illegal money laundering: "knowingly engaging in a financial transaction with the proceeds of a crime for the purpose of concealing or disguising the illicit origin of the property." Unless there's a specific clause in their contract with you that says you can't take payments from yourself/your friends, then I can't see the crime here.

They're saying they'll eat all the processing fees, so you're not defrauding the card company. You're exploiting a (likely totally legal and legitimate) loophole in a generous offer by BrainTree.
 
greenleaves said:
Ok. Since you are obviously not the sharpest tool in the shed, here goes:

What is Money Laundering?
Money laundering, at its simplest, is the act of making money that comes from Source A look like it comes from Source B.

What are you doing in the text you mentioned?
You claimed $50k income came from Source A (sales you made; there isn't a processor code for 'money laundering to get CC rewards'), when in reality it came from Source B (your own CC, no sales).

Now, think about this for a second. Do you think you would be paid the $50k+750 back? Do you think the merchants don't have stuff in their fine print to prevent this? Do you think this can't be easily traced?

Seriously, Google exists. It has for a while. Look up. Read. Learn. It works. You will then not have to be asking stupid questions which expose your limited understanding of the reality you live in.

P.S. Yes, I can be a dick, I know.
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Maybe you should try taking your own advice,

Money laundering - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Money laundering is the process of concealing the source of money obtained by illicit means.
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FBI — Money Laundering and Asset Forfeiture

Simply put, money laundering entails taking criminal profits and moving them in a prohibited manner
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It's only money laundering if the money was from a criminal activity e.g. drug dealing.

What he described is probably a breach of the merchant T&Cs, and it may be considered fraud, but one thing it's NOT is money laundering by those definitions.

Unless you're using a different version of the Internet to me?
 
amateursurgeon said:
Maybe you should try taking your own advice,

Money laundering - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia




FBI — Money Laundering and Asset Forfeiture




It's only money laundering if the money was from a criminal activity e.g. drug dealing.

What he described is probably a breach of the merchant T&Cs, and it may be considered fraud, but one thing it's NOT is money laundering by those definitions.

Unless you're using a different version of the Internet to me?
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They love to include the part of 'criminal activity' in the mass media so everyone feels good about it. That is mentioned in the language of the law. But like most modern US laws, they use extremely redundant, vague and as encompasing as possible language. If you read the actual language in the legal system that defines money laundering as concealing the source of a trasaction, even if it isn't illegal. Unless we understand this differently:
18 USC § 1956 - Laundering of monetary instruments | LII / Legal Information Institute

And yeah, somethine like what was described will likely not be prosecuted as money laundering, unless they want to fuck with you.

P.S. A strong argument doesn't originate from a 2 min read up of wikipedia. I'm sure something like this won't hold much weight in court: 'but your honor, it says in wikipedia that...'
 
greenleaves said:
They love to include the part of 'criminal activity' in the mass media so everyone feels good about it. That is mentioned in the language of the law. But like most modern US laws, they use extremely redundant, vague and as encompasing as possible language. If you read the actual language in the legal system that defines money laundering as concealing the source of a trasaction, even if it isn't illegal. Unless we understand this differently:
18 USC § 1956 - Laundering of monetary instruments | LII / Legal Information Institute

And yeah, somethine like what was described will likely not be prosecuted as money laundering, unless they want to fuck with you.

P.S. A strong argument doesn't originate from a 2 min read up of wikipedia. I'm sure something like this won't hold much weight in court: 'but your honor, it says in wikipedia that...'
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So, remind me, where does it include non-illegal activity that you're concealing the origins of in that law? Assuming there's nothing in BrainTree's terms and conditions prohibiting you from from spending through your own merchant account, or having a friend spend through it, then there's no fraud or breach of contract going on.

It seems that Wikipedia happens to back up exactly what that page says.
 
-joe- said:
So, remind me, where does it include non-illegal activity that you're concealing the origins of in that law? Assuming there's nothing in BrainTree's terms and conditions prohibiting you from from spending through your own merchant account, or having a friend spend through it, then there's no fraud or breach of contract going on.

It seems that Wikipedia happens to back up exactly what that page says.
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The illegal activity would be mail and wire fraud. He is concealing his wire fraud activities as sales from an ecommerce store.

Before going blue in the face, ask a lawyer. Basically anything you do that involves 'hiding the origin' of a transaction, even if not illegal in your eyes, is money laundering. Read the full language. Grasp it's broad range applicable definitions. Think 'what constitutes illegal? If you realize that everyone does illegal shit every day, because it is virtually impossible to not break one of the over 20,000 federal laws (this does not count state and county ones; which some times involve Federal) you can understand that yes, what is proposed is money laundering.

Here is a non-illegal origin of money laundering:

(2) Whoever transports, transmits, or transfers, or attempts to transport, transmit, or transfer a monetary instrument or funds from a place in the United States to or through a place outside the United States or to a place in the United States from or through a place outside the United States—
(ii) to avoid a transaction reporting requirement under State or Federal law,
 
greenleaves said:
They love to include the part of 'criminal activity' in the mass media so everyone feels good about it. That is mentioned in the language of the law. But like most modern US laws, they use extremely redundant, vague and as encompasing as possible language. If you read the actual language in the legal system that defines money laundering as concealing the source of a trasaction, even if it isn't illegal. Unless we understand this differently:
18 USC § 1956 - Laundering of monetary instruments | LII / Legal Information Institute

And yeah, somethine like what was described will likely not be prosecuted as money laundering, unless they want to fuck with you.

P.S. A strong argument doesn't originate from a 2 min read up of wikipedia. I'm sure something like this won't hold much weight in court: 'but your honor, it says in wikipedia that...'
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It says pretty clearly there:

Whoever, knowing that the property involved in a financial transaction represents the proceeds of some form of unlawful activity
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Although I would agree with you that the US law is very vague to make nearly everything illegal. That doesn't warrant sarcastic replies though.

PS We're not in court. We're arguing about something fucking pointless on a forum as a distraction from whatever it is we're both meant to be doing right now. Personally, I have the time between it takes my unit test suite to complete to reply, which doesn't really warrant preparing a legal case.
 
amateursurgeon said:
It says pretty clearly there:



Although I would agree with you that the US law is very vague to make nearly everything illegal. That doesn't warrant sarcastic replies though.

PS We're not in court. We're arguing about something fucking pointless on a forum as a distraction from whatever it is we're both meant to be doing right now. Personally, I have the time between it takes my unit test suite to complete to reply, which doesn't really warrant preparing a legal case.
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Yeah. I was arguing more toward those who thought doing that $50k thing for $750 was a good idea. I mean, you understand just how illegal and stupid it would be. My sarcasm and unpleasantness was directed more at those who seem to be completely clueless and think that 'if I'm not being 'evil' then I won't get raped by the state because the state is only after 'evil people''.

Reminds me of a good natured guy I knew. He really believe if he isn't being 'evil', he won't get raped. He went on to be part of the board of directors of a company blamed for money laundering. It was all trumped up bullshit, and the guy was never involved in the company for real. But in the end, his options were plea bargain and get a short sentence, or fight it out in court without a budget (all his assets were frozen). Obviously, he went for the plea bargain.
 
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greenleaves said:
Reminds me of a good natured guy I knew. He really believe if he isn't being 'evil', he won't get raped. He went on to be part of the board of directors of a company blamed for money laundering. It was all trumped up bullshit, and the guy was never involved in the company for real. But in the end, his options were plea bargain and get a short sentence, or fight it out in court without a budget (all his assets were frozen). Obviously, he went for the plea bargain.
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I'm really fucking glad I don't live in a country which has 'plea bargains'.
 
Even if it isn't considered money laundering, it's still a violation of Visa and Mastercard rules to use your own credit card on your own merchant account. I don't think a lousy 750 bucks is worth being listed on the MATCH file and losing your processing. Once you're on the MATCH, it's next to impossible to remove yourself and you will face extreme difficulty obtaining merchant accounts in the future since banks treat the MATCH file like a blacklist.

Also I lean towards greenleaves' argument about this being wire fraud and money laundering because these are not legitimate e-commerce purchases. You are engaging in a scheme to defraud your card issuing bank of 750 dollars by making illegitimate purchases with your own credit card to your own merchant account.

Lots of small minded dumbasses in here as usual.
 
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