Gates, Ellison, Dell, all these guys left college but they had ambition to succeed.. All those losers are just plain lazy regardless of grades or the # of degrees. I'll bet 90% of them have lazy parents also who didn't give a shit either about succeeding.. Ever wonder why a doctor or lawyer who has kids also follow in their footsteps?
Is a college degree worth the cost?
- Thread starter charlesmartel
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Gates, Ellison, Dell, all these guys left college but they had ambition to succeed.. All those losers are just plain lazy regardless of grades or the # of degrees. I'll bet 90% of them have lazy parents also who didn't give a shit either about succeeding.. Ever wonder why a doctor or lawyer who has kids also follow in their footsteps?
If Peter Schiff went to Google and talked to all the guys in their 20s with a compsci degree making $150,000+ he'd probably draw a different conclusion.
I'd actually say the opposite. College is most valuable for people who DO know what they want, and need a degree to get it (e.g. Doctor). Those sort of degrees have a very strong ROI.
People who don't know what they want tend to end up studying something they were halfway interested in at school, then never using it again.
^^ This is pretty spot on
^^ your a product without it too
^^ Hate to disagree with you Charles, but the guy coming out of college has exactly the same access as someone that didn't.
^^ This
^^ actually most degree's at colleges are worthless. Notice I said most and not all. Unless you went IVY or the top school in your degree field, your degree is worthless.
As someone that just handled the marketing budget of 5 different EDUs and provided them lead gen as well, I can tell you most average schools have shitty degrees, even in things like MBA's and such. You would laugh if you seen the requirements and output of some of these schools with their programs.
^ this is correct
^^ This
^^ this
^^ id say college for the most are for the imaginative. for some others its what actually is entry into their field ( like medical ).
Define worthless.
60% of grads are still ending up in jobs that they wouldn't have been able to get without their degree.
The Class of 2012 - NYTimes.com
40 percent of working recent graduates are in jobs that do not require a college degree, compared with roughly 30 percent before the onset of the recession in 2007.
This Just In: Your College Degree is Actually Worth Something | BostInno
Jobs that require bachelor’s degrees have increased by 2.2 million since the recession began in 2007...
Since the recession began, 5.8 million jobs have been lost for those with only a high school diploma on their résumé.
Define worthless.
60% of grads are still ending up in jobs that they wouldn't have been able to get without their degree.
I'd like to know how this is measured. I am positive someone without a degree going in for a C Level position in a company ( or even senior management ) that has 20 years experience in their field will get picked then someone fresh out of school, unless of course the company is broke and just trying to get the cheapest person they can.
Even if both have 20 years experience, it will be a toss up.
In the tech industries, you see experience over degree more then not.
The person coming in for a job that went to harvard or stanford will get picked any time and every time over the person that went to BYU or Cal State, in that case your degree is worthless.
Someone with proven 10-20 years experience and no degree will pretty much be picked before you or at least on even keel as you with your Cal State or BYU degree, in this case your degree is still worthless unless the company is just trying to pick up someone fresh for low pay.
Neck and neck with that degree plus same experience level, its still a toss up. Someone that can sell themselves will still give the degree guy a run for the money, in this case I consider your degree worthless too.
If you both going in for McDonalds jobs or some lower end management job at Sears, Im pretty sure the degree person would get picked.. but in this case your degree is still worthless ( look where your at ).
^^ none of this hold weight for things like medical, legal ( though I could make an argument here ), etc...
If your looking to graduate in and then go right into the job force making 50k-70k for most of your life, then yeah your degree is worthless because I know plenty of people with degrees working these jobs, and the same amount of people without them doing the same. When someone with a little willpower and effort can end up a millionaire without going to college, it shows me college has no real advantage unless you wanna settle for an average life, which I dont. Why would I spend $50k-$200k of my life earnings just to live average and go to college?
I usually prefer a degree for the entry level positions at my cafe. I found that ones (girls) with degrees traveling from Australia work the best, most loyal. Out of everyone I have employed the ones with out the degrees last the shortest time and are least trustworthy.
That said the 1 time they got me really pissed off I won the argument and shut them up when I pointed out that they have 20k us in debt with worthless degree working for me ( a drop out ). They got nothing to say after that.
Degrees i have on staff
2 art
1 design
2 science
2 in progress (early medical and some acting screenwriting program crap )
Average wage 10.75 an hour which is min wage. All of them have student debt.
Value and cost are always relative, for anything. It's all personal. i always see people pointing out how many millionaires and billionaires didn't go to college while ignoring the fact that the majority have degrees. If you have the drive and intelligence to be successful, you will be successful with or without a degree, but a degree sure won't hurt your chances. Sometimes the connections you make at a top tier university are incredibly valuable. I'll refer you to a post I made when I first started browsing around here. This discussion was about pursuing an MBA, but still applies:
Facebook and Microsoft were both formed while their founders were attending Harvard. It's possible neither would have been created or successful without the influence of their peers and the connections they developed while attending. For every uber successful person without an advanced degree there are 15 with one (or two). If you are looking to just advance your internet marketing business, an advanced degree is probably a waste of valuable time. School really is a waste of time and money for many people. On the other hand, if you're looking to really delve into big business, a top tier MBA or other advanced degree will just give you a step up on everyone else. When it comes down to it though, a Harvard degree is almost never a waste. You have to consider how much of a cushion a Harvard degree is. You could have ZERO on your resume and walk into a new $100k+/yr position once a day easy with an MBA from Harvard.
Simply put, the guys at the top of the IM game make a ton of money. The guys at the top of the NYU game print that money. The guys at the top of the Harvard game sit here:
It's not worthless if it gained you an advantage over others seeking the same thing. Whether or not it is worth the price you paid for it is another story.
Not trying to have a super serious argument or anything, but these would be your anecdotal observations.
If we look at the large body of data :
Many people have lots of willpower and effort, but they can't all find the same gold mine you may have, and even if you lead them to it their brain just might not be capable of figuring out how to mine it. Or they might just not find it interesting, and doing something they like is more important to them than making the most money.
It's not necessary to have a degree to make any amount of money - there are multiple doorways to doing so, but a degree provides access to more potential doors, and for a large percent of doors you have to have the degree.
Yeah, Bill Gates, Tom Cruise, Lebron James, and Lil Wayne became millionaires without a college degree, but 80% of millionaires do have one. In many of those cases the degree itself might not have specifically helped them, but the college experience still could have contributed in other ways. College dropout Bill Gates met Steve Ballmer and others while in school, so who knows what would have happened if he had never decided to attend at all.
Joining a church or the freemasons might not have a defined financial value and nobody has to join them to be successful, but those are some other type of things that can open more doors.
edit : I should have also read the post by cassius before replying, as I see he already pointed some of this out..
This all depends on how fast you finish your degree. 4 years and graduate at 22-24, then you're in good shape. Waste 5-7 years and you've spent some of your 12 hour day years at theory, booze and hopefully girls.
I spent 7 years myself before calling it quits and it was a monumental waste of time. But that was mainly because I studied the wrong subject. If you study some kind of marketing, biz or comp. sci., then it's a better tradeoff regarding time.
Business in College is bullshit.
College is cool for partying networking and some useful courses(comp sci.). Of course if your field needs a degree its useful for that too.
As a first year I learned 50 times more reading a few pages of The Personal MBA than in my business course.
College is cool for partying networking and some useful courses(comp sci.). Of course if your field needs a degree its useful for that too.
As a first year I learned 50 times more reading a few pages of The Personal MBA than in my business course.