Women to be Allowed in Combat Roles

When is the last time we actually won one? WW2?

Well, yeah. That's the joke.

When was the last time we fought in a war in which our participation was justified (and by that, I mean morally principled)? Personally, I'm having a hard time coming up with one, and that's including the Revolutionary War.

But back on topic... the thought of folks - men or women - smiling for the chance to go kill people on command makes me ill. I realize they don't see it that way, but their delusion doesn't make reality less real.


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There have been female soldiers in Israel foever.

And yes, they are also drafted, just like the guys.

Personally, I am all for it.
You want the same rights as men? Fine. Here, have ALL the duties as well.

::emp::
 
Why did they have to lower requirements to get women in the firefighters and police?

The childish feminist games cost lives. They'll just have to live with the fact they don't have a penis. I really wish Freud was more in fashion these days. 'Penis envy' is the scientific term that applies to feminists.
 
Ten years ago this ruling would have been a complete game changer for me. I am happy for the women in the military now- and would be remiss not to admit my jealousy.

That said, a couple important points:

  • There has to be 1, repeat, ONE standard for combat forces physical requirements. Women should be held to the male 18-25 standards or not allowed in. They will not only fall behind quickly, but they'll compromise mission efficacy.
  • Expect the SOF elements to request exceptions (E.g., Army Special Forces, Army Rangers, Navy SEALs, maybe SWCC, Marine Corps Force Recon, Air Force PJs/ CCT and I'm betting the USA / USMC sniper teams - if only because they have to go long distances in teams of 2).
  • There are definitely women out there who can hold up to the male PFT, marksmanship, and leadership criteria to be in infantry units. But they are FEW and far between. A quota system will not only destroy unit mission efficacy, it will also be a complete bear for the women who ARE standard bearers to have to drag around the women who can't. (And have their reputations continually hampered by that bottom %).

That said, this is about fucking time. I remember getting flamed on SOCNET back in early 2001 or 2002 for suggesting that this be put in place. Looks like I was just 11 years too early.
 
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Ten years ago this ruling would have been a complete game changer for me. I am happy for the women in the military now- and would be remiss not to admit my jealousy.

That said, a couple important points:

  • There has to be 1, repeat, ONE standard for combat forces physical requirements. Women should be held to the male 18-25 standards or not allowed in. They will not only fall behind quickly, but they'll compromise mission efficacy.
  • Expect the SOF elements to request exceptions (E.g., Army Special Forces, Army Rangers, Navy SEALs, maybe SWCC, Marine Corps Force Recon, Air Force PJs/ CCT and I'm betting the USA / USMC sniper teams - if only because they have to go long distances in teams of 2).
  • There are definitely women out there who can hold up to the male PFT, marksmanship, and leadership criteria to be in infantry units. But they are FEW and far between. A quota system will not only destroy unit mission efficacy, it will also be a complete bear for the women who ARE standard bearers to have to drag around the women who can't. (And have their reputations continually hampered by that bottom %).

That said, this is about fucking time. I remember getting flamed on SOCNET back in early 2001 or 2002 for suggesting that this be put in place. Looks like I was just 11 years too early.


Since this is the only one in the thread that actually knows what's she talking about... / thread
 
I got fucking destroyed in BJJ class one day by a 100 lb Asian chick with DDD tits. This little bitch subbed me like 5 times in a minute or two.

In my defense, I was really new and she was some chick who traveled around the country going to various BJJ gyms to train, so she was pretty serious.

Regardless, nothing like getting choked over and over by some little chick who looks like a porn star. Really fucks with your head o.o

Sounds more like you enjoyed submitting to an asian dragon mistress. Can't fault, haven't we all been there, but really had you punched her in the face, you'd have seen the difference. Ever watched female MMA?
 
I'm ok with women in the military if they meet the exact same rigorous physical & mental standards that men have to comply with.

If they can meet them then fine. If not, they shouldn't be in combat.

(In reality, the military will become henpecked for 'sexist' policies which will reduce the overall effectiveness of our combat troops.)
 
I'm ok with women in the military if they meet the exact same rigorous physical & mental standards that men have to comply with.

If they can meet them then fine. If not, they shouldn't be in combat.

(In reality, the military will become henpecked for 'sexist' policies which will reduce the overall effectiveness of our combat troops.)

I was once a woman in a uniform and would have not only completely agreed with you, but probably high fived you for saying so.

It just makes common sense to maintain one universal physical standard - especially for combat or ground forces. (What admins and cooks do is a different matter).

Women in the military (and probably everywhere else) have to do twice as much to get half the respect. Asking the women who want to be 11Bs or 0311s to be able to run a sub 21:00 3 mile or be able to do 80+ pushups isn't going to be asking much. FEW women are going to be eager to get in there in the first place, and what ones will be are going to expect to have to meet those criteria... whether or not the command sets them there.
 
Regardless of qualification and capability, women operating in male dominated environments and situations are always a distraction. You think the military is expensive now? Think of the increased scope in logistics involving placing women in these 14,500 positions that have just opened up for women. Every move in the decision making and placement process is going to be highly scrutinized. Suddenly the powers they be will be focused on not only making the right decision, they will then be on the hook to ensure the success of that woman in that role, no matter what the impact on the support personnel involved in that activity. Some congresswoman will make this her pet project and demand an investigation and accountability for every single woman killed in a combat situation, more so than your average grunt.

I don't care how much acceptable criteria you can come with to support this cause, guys will accept rational arguments and live with the situation superficially. However, any true male who has ever loved, protected or cared for a woman knows deep down inside that this is wrong on so many levels.
 
Meanwhile in Russia

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When was the last time you killed a wolf with an axe. Mr tough man.

Video games dont count and pretending to be hard by buying a shitload of guns doesn't either. If a woman has more heart then you to go into a combat zone. I say let her do it.
 
Regardless of qualification and capability, women operating in male dominated environments and situations are always a distraction. You think the military is expensive now? Think of the increased scope in logistics involving placing women in these 14,500 positions that have just opened up for women. Every move in the decision making and placement process is going to be highly scrutinized. Suddenly the powers they be will be focused on not only making the right decision, they will then be on the hook to ensure the success of that woman in that role, no matter what the impact on the support personnel involved in that activity. Some congresswoman will make this her pet project and demand an investigation and accountability for every single woman killed in a combat situation, more so than your average grunt.

I don't care how much acceptable criteria you can come with to support this cause, guys will accept rational arguments and live with the situation superficially. However, any true male who has ever loved, protected or cared for a woman knows deep down inside that this is wrong on so many levels.

I am not a guy and so cannot argue from a male point of view.

Bottom line - the only thing keeping me out of joining the military as soon as they work this shit out is that I'm 31 and it would mean an enormous income hit that isn't in my family's best interest. That is my main responsibility in life right now, my family, not me.

But... if that were not the case, I'd only go in knowing I could 300 the male 17-21 PFT standards. There'd be no if ands or buts about it.

I'd also go in knowing exactly what the job entails... not because I've been playing CoD for a few years, but because I have friends that have done the job and lived to tell about it.

Would I ever be the 11B or 0311 tasked with humping the SAW on patrol? No. I'm 5'4" and that's just an unlikelihood. But God knows there have been small statured infantrymen before, and will be short infantry men after women are there. Your size doesn't determine your fight. And if I had to hump a SAW a few miles, or a water can, or a fallen friend, you can bet your ass I'd do it. Because it'd be my job to. And I'd have signed up, voluntarily, because I wanted to be there and knew that was my job and this is what my job entails.

At the end of the day if the guy in a foxhole next to the girl is more worried about her individual health and welfare than his unit's overall health and welfare, that's his failure. Teams are teams. Its always team before self or any one individual. Thats why there's bootcamp, that's why there's advanced training, that all emphasizes "team" over self or any one individual.

Canada has had women in combat roles since 1989. Israel since 2000 (they've taken it a step further with an entirely female infantry battalion). New Zealand since 2001. And these most recent wars, particularly, with their amorphous 'front lines' have made the notion of who is and who is not in a combat role more a matter of title and paperwork than experience.

It has already happened.
It is already happening.
And it will continue... especially now it the era of an all volunteer service.

Once this is pushed through, I think we'll see it was all much ado about nothing - because for all the uproar the number of women who volunteer for such duty will be infinitesimal relative to the number of combat troops there are in the US military. And the number that make it through, from that, will be even smaller.

Let them serve as they feel led to serve.
 
However, any true male who has ever loved, protected or cared for a woman knows deep down inside that this is wrong on so many levels.

Yeah, I get that. But at the same time I don't imagine the type of G.I. Jane that would like be mowing down brown people all pro would be anything like the type of women I usually feel inclined to love/protect/care for.
 
I just dont understand how these groups think that kind of thing helps. You can't want to be "equal" and then on the other hand be OK with affirmative action type programs. The two are like direct opposites of one another. Either you're equal or you're not. Those who are equal don't need special help getting jobs or put into positions.

Newsflash, if you're a fucking beast at what you do, very few managers or company owners are going to say "oops, can't hire this person because they are (a woman, a black, a gay, etc). Maybe some little restaurant or store in some buttfuck country town would do it, but the majority will hire who's best for the job/position.

It's all bullshit.
Allow me to help you better understand.

On the "equality" thing your problem appears to be a narrow understanding of what equality is. How can I be an accomplished young man, (not so young anymore) yet still be for affirmative action and other racial and gender equality initiatives? Simple, because racism is still very much alive (lol that I even have to say that to someone who is on WF).

It's not as out in the open as it was, but the very fact that all the chameleons exist in these WF threads proves my point. You know who I'm talking about.... all the folks who will joyfully drop the N word and other racially bigoted language all over other threads, talk about how black people are inferior, then come in threads like this and proclaim that we don't need affirmative action because every businessman or businesswoman will make their hiring decision based on merit alone. It's fascinating to watch really.

It doesn't bother me personally. I think open racism is hilarious. I get a kick out of good black jokes just as much as I do out of comedians who make fun of whites, asians, and any other race. But you see the worst type of racist is a racist that doesn't know they're racist. (or kinda does but would never admit it to themselves).

Need an example from this thread? See tomaszjot's firefighter example. Without even knowing it, his example exposed his way of thinking. 10 best firefighters, 5 of them are white males so they automatically deserve to be there. But then you have 3 black guys and 3 women... uh oh, here comes trouble! The women and minorities are automatically inferior to the almighty white males. Most people skipped over that and didn't even notice it. But it's not a stretch at all to "see what he did there".

So now that we've quickly proven those 3 types of racists exist (open racist, racist when they think no one is looking, and the ones that don't even know they have a racial or gender bias). Hopefully that'll help you understand. That's why things like affirmative action measures still need to exist. It's hard for some (like you) to understand because we never talk about those 3 types of people. It's those types of people who will, behind closed doors, make employment decisions based on bias if no one stops them.

You can't want to be "equal" and then on the other hand be OK with affirmative action type programs. The two are like direct opposites of one another.
The problem with that is that when a white male and (insert ethnic minority, gender minority, sexual preference minority etc here) walk into a room no matter how closely matched their qualifications and experience are, they are not equal. No matter how much we'd like that to be the case for argument's sake.

Affirmative action isn't implemented correctly in many cases. I'll give you that. But the idea that equality measures should be done away with completely is a bit misguided.

Saying you're equal doesn't make you equal. A racial or gender minority can consider themselves "equal" to anyone. Affirmative action is there to ensure they are treated equally. Get the difference?
 
They want equal rights then fine. Give all the women a 240 Bravo to carry around for a few months and lets see what happens. If they can do that and watch little kids blow up in front of them and come out ok then fine, let them fight.

In my personal opinion, a woman doesn't belong on the battlefield. She belongs in the fucking kitchen cooking us men breakfast lunch and dinner and making babies so we can do the dirty work just like humanity intended.