Goodbye, Copyrights. Defcad search is born.

[mituozo]

So they don't miss that $500 million at all? They aren't concerned that this number is growing?

NOW who's underestimating the banks?

No they don't miss $500m, did you see how big the bail outs were? That number is entirely insignificant when you compare it with the size of the world economy.

To put it into proportion, world currency reserves are at least $3.5 trillion. That means that Bitcoin reserves currently represent 1 in 7,000 of the world's currency reserves. 0.01%.

You make the classic mistake of not seeing the many industries that now depend upon bitcoin.

Like Cody says in the film, he'll need bitcoin to be able to do this.

Many industries online already do depend on bitcoin to exist. Gambling for Americans is one of them. (Not fully but it is heading in that direction.)

People were forced to learn how to use Paypal, right? They'll be forced to use bitcoin for things they can't buy with paypal... Or at least buy premium items that aren't available without bitcoin.

Online gambling in the US does not depend on bitcoin in any way, shape or form. Try pushing a bitcoin US online gambling offer and cry yourself to sleep when you realise you can't even get a return on seo traffic. I know more about that industry than most people do on this forum.

It's getting much easier with services like coinbase, instawallet, localbitcoins, and of course bitinstant. It won't take much longer for there to be another, better app than these for acquiring bitcoins, and then one after that and one after that and so on... Hundreds of coders are constantly at work on this problem.

Jersey shore addicts? No. They don't. But enough do.

WAY More than enough do.

It has clearly be shown in the pollings that the majority of support of bitcoin is by libertarians... And we're not talking about a couple thousand here. Don't forget that they've already put up $500 Million dollars between them.

Remember all the times I made a Ron Paul-related thread saying that the media won't reveal the true numbers of people who would vote for Paul? I stand by that point... And there is a constant discussion going on every libertarian-minded board these days about bitcoin.

That will soon be reality in any sector where the government doesn't have a strong grip over the taxing structure... So obviously not the government itself and not big corporations. But all online retail that isn't a big corporation, including things like Namecheap and all kinds of Mom & pop shops both online & offline too!

Your experience was during beta testing, basically. Things are already easier now.

Here's how I'd get bitcoins in a jiffy if i was in the US:

1. Head to walmart, cvs, albertsons, or some other store that sells a variety of gift cards. Buy as many in USD as I want to put into bitcoin.

2. Head over to bitinstant and trade those cards for bitcoin. Simple as you could hope for, & it only takes 30 or so minutes to clear.

If I were more paranoid? I'd just use LocalBitcoins, and buy bitcoins directly in meatspace. This is getting pretty popular now in fact... Which supports my point above about libertarians.

Not in a hurry? I'd use coinbase and just send $ from my bank account to be converted into bitcoin directly, but that takes 2 days. Fees are very low though.

Credit Card processors, not debit.

This is a shortcoming of the bitcoin system that I personally feel is a good thing. Bitcoin can never offer that protection from scheming merchants like credit cards do, but there are other ways to deal with disreputable merchants... Meanwhile no one gets scammed in the opposite direction like they do today in USD.

Of course this has been well understood, talked about, and planned for since day 1. It will scare off some casual users, but the core base that depends on the coin is already in place, and the peer-to-peer nature of bitcoin will protect them.

With $500M already in the system, that value simply isn't just going away. Bitcoin is too strong now to destroy like that.

:error::eek7::error::uhoh2::eek7::uhoh2::error::uhoh2::eek7::error:

...I just don't know how I can argue with this 'logic.'

Are you saying that once a bitcoin is worth a million dollars it will be worth too much to use in trade or something? Remember, it is divisible down to 0.00000001 btc.

No, I'm saying that when a bitcoin is worth a million dollars, but worth 2 million dollars tomorrow, no one will spend their bitcoins (why would you, you'd have to be insane).

The kind of growth that most bitcoin users want would be exactly what kills it. It's actually better off as a small currency that doesn't try to take on the world.

If it gets too big it'll be shut down by governments and/or crippling deflation. There's so many ways they can do it, the fact it is P2P is irrelevant.

Tell Paypal if they facilitate bit coin payments in anyway, you'll take away their credit/debit card processing abilities. Tell all legit, trading online companies they'll be shut down if they accept bitcoins for payment. Tell people in public that people caught using bitcoins for anything will be harshly prosecuted, and set a few public examples.

It would likely continue to still exist, but it'll be as it was when it started out - just soliciting a market for illegal goods and money laundering, although perhaps in a bigger way.

 

[MentalyDisturbd]

No, he is making a copy. The breaking into the PC is another issue.

So say that person uploads a copy of your hard drive for anybody to publicaly download. You run across somebody that has downloaded a "copy" of your hard drive. You would be fine with that right? Since that person didn't break in to your pc they just have a copy and you still have the original so no big deal right?

What if somebody "copies" your credit card number, when you find out do you call your credit card company and report your credit card "copied" ? You still have the original though so its not stolen right?

 

[hehejo]

So say that person uploads a copy of your hard drive for anybody to publicaly download. You run across somebody that has downloaded a "copy" of your hard drive. You would be fine with that right? Since that person didn't break in to your pc they just have a copy and you still have the original so no big deal right?

Yes. There is nothing wrong with the act of copying. There is something wrong with the act of hacking.

What if somebody "copies" your credit card number, when you find out do you call your credit card company and report your credit card "copied" ? You still have the original though so its not stolen right?

It is just a number. Now if someone is using that number to pretend that he is you and purchase something, he is guilty of fraud.

But if someone just copies/writes down the number, nothing wrong with that. No harm done.

Is it really that hard to understand? Do you even logic?

 

[mattseh]

So say that person uploads a copy of your hard drive for anybody to publicaly download. You run across somebody that has downloaded a "copy" of your hard drive. You would be fine with that right? Since that person didn't break in to your pc they just have a copy and you still have the original so no big deal right?

What if somebody "copies" your credit card number, when you find out do you call your credit card company and report your credit card "copied" ? You still have the original though so its not stolen right?

Credit card details are authentication, you need to keep it private. If it leaks, revoke the authentication (cancel the card).

If you believe 500GB of data should be copyrighted, what is the lower bound? 100 words? 100 bytes? 1 byte? 1 bit?

 

[MentalyDisturbd]

Yes. There is nothing wrong with the act of copying. There is something wrong with the act of hacking.


It is just a number. Now if someone is using that number to pretend that he is you and purchase something, he is guilty of fraud.

But if someone just copies/writes down the number, nothing wrong with that. No harm done.

Ok so if he doesn't use it and impersonate you it wouldn't be considered fraud he just has a copy nothing wrong with that right? So what if he sells your copied credit card number that should be ok according to you is that right?

 

[hehejo]

Ok so if he doesn't use it and impersonate you it wouldn't be considered fraud he just has a copy nothing wrong with that right? So what if he sells your copied credit card number that should be ok according to you is that right?

Yes. If I sell you a bunch of numbers or words, no real crime has been committed.

If I sell you a weapon and you kill someone with it, did I do something wrong?

 

[MentalyDisturbd]

Yes. If I sell you a bunch of numbers or words, no real crime has been committed.

That's awesome bro.

 

[Moxie]

The digital age has and will continue to redefine theft. The very fact that TPB was taken to court and it was argued in court proves that the meaning of theft is being redefined before our very eyes.

They were charged with copyright infringement, not theft.


Courts have distinguished between copyright infringement and theft holding. For instance, in the United States Supreme Court case Dowling v. United States (1985), bootleg phonorecords did not constitute stolen property. Instead, "interference with copyright does not easily equate with theft, conversion, or fraud. The Copyright Act even employs a separate term of art to define one who misappropriates a copyright: '[...] an infringer of the copyright.'"

The court said that in the case of copyright infringement, the province guaranteed to the copyright holder by copyright law—certain exclusive rights—is invaded, but no control, physical or otherwise, is taken over the copyright, nor is the copyright holder wholly deprived of using the copyrighted work or exercising the exclusive rights held.

Copyright infringement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



“Theft”

Copyright apologists often use words like “stolen” and “theft” to refer to copyright infringement. This is spin, but they would like you to take it for objective truth.

Under the US legal system, copyright infringement is not theft. Laws about theft are not applicable to copyright infringement. The copyright apologists are making an appeal to authority—and misrepresenting what authority says.

Unauthorized copying is forbidden by copyright law in many circumstances (not all!), but being forbidden doesn't make it wrong. In general, laws don't define right and wrong. Laws, at their best, attempt to implement justice. If the laws (the implementation) don't fit our ideas of right and wrong (the spec), the laws are what should change.

Words to Avoid (or Use with Care) Because They Are Loaded or Confusing - GNU Project - Free Software Foundation

 

[jeffrey]

TLDR: Lukep still retarded?

 

[MentalyDisturbd]

 

[hehejo]

Impersonating != copying

You want to copy my logo, go ahead. But by using it on this site you create the image that you are me/are part of my company and this is frauding on your part.

Two different issues but I doubt you'll understand that.

 

[ShadowCaster]

That's weird, because you did spin the sig..

 

[Kiopa_Matt]

Impersonating != copying

You want to copy my logo, go ahead. But by using it on this site you create the image that you are me/are part of my company and this is frauding on your part.

Two different issues but I doubt you'll understand that.

Ohhh, I think I get it now. So putting the Microsoft logo on a software product would be impersonation, and that's not allowed.

However, if you just copy the Microsoft software product, but leave the logo off, and sell away at a 90% discount, then it's totally fine.

Got it!

 

[lukep]

This thread disgusts me... I mean I'm almost physically sick at the depths of stupidity I'm seeing here in Opposition to such a wonderful act of FREEDOM.

I know you little-brains don't agree that it's freedom; and that's what's so disheartening.

Freedom is freedom. The ability to do what you want.

Yet you FIGHT it, wishing to live imprisoned because "it'll make it easier for someone else to inconvenience me."

You fuckers HAVE the government you deserve.

...Those of us who prefer freedom don't.

YOU are still enslaving us.

 

[Kiopa_Matt]

^^ Yeah lukep, a country should definitely adopt these philosophies. I can already see the massive amounts of venture capital they would attract. Without question. Anyone can rip off your intellectual property you invested millions in, without any legal recourse? I'm sure that'd make investors all over the world jizz themselves in excitement.

I have a hard time understanding some of you guys. You think the way to utopia is by destroying all governments, corporations, currencies, IP law, police forces, education institutions, and so on. Instead, we'll all hang out in anarchy with our 3D printers and Bitcoins, and live happily ever after. You bet!

 

[Moxie]

I'm sure that'd make investors all over the world jizz themselves in excitement.

Red Hat shares triple in IPO - CNET News

Red Hat: The first billion dollar Linux company has arrived | ZDNet

One day, three deals, $150 million in open source funding

 

[-joe-]

No they don't miss $500m, did you see how big the bail outs were? That number is entirely insignificant when you compare it with the size of the world economy.

This, made this screenshot yesterday, didn't get around to posting - HSBC's share price for the day, an average day's trading. Close to $2 billion lost in one day.

And that's just one bank, the 500m is split between all of them, HSBC, Wells Fargo, Chase, etc.

 

[hellblazer]

If I bake a cake, I created that cake, not the person who came up with that recipe.

Are we talking about baking fucking cakes? We're talking about perfectly duplicating digital products, retard.

Not going to answer the rest as you just cherrypicked my arguments and answered the ones where you thought you can answer. Not going to argue on such a loe level so I'm out of here.

Hahaha what a fucking pussy. Cherrypicked? I destroyed every one of your terrible arguments.

And I love Luke's indignation at the peasants not appreciating the "freeeedom" he's so generously offering.

This thread disgusts me... I mean I'm almost physically sick at the depths of stupidity I'm seeing here in Opposition to such a wonderful act of FREEDOM.

you little-brains...

 

[lukep]

Are we talking about baking fucking cakes? We're talking about perfectly duplicating digital products, retard.

You don't see the relevance here?

Let's examine the following three congruent scenarios, and see where your retardation becomes present, shall we?

Case #1: Food copied from recipes that the owner did not choose for you to read.

Assumption: I peek at a recipe of yours, remember it, and go home and recreate that recipe with my own ingredients in my own kitchen using my own energy. I then eat it.

Did I steal that food from you?



Case #2: Physical products copied with either human skill in re-creating them or with some kind of 3D printing technology.

Assumption: I see your product that you've got on display at some store, I take a picture of it or scan it somehow while there, and then I go home and perfectly recreate it using my raw materials and my skilled hands or using a 3D printer. I then use it.

Did I steal that product from you?



Case #3: Digital products copied from your website by my computer

Assumption: I browse onto your website, look around a bit, (not hack, look) and I find an unsecured digital program that you wrote. I copy the file, downloading it to my hard drive. I then use it.

Did I steal that program from you?


In all three cases:

• You placed on display something that others might want to copy.
• You kept the thing that was copied, in perfect condition.
• I did the work of copying (or my hardware did.)
• My materials and energy went into recreating your product, not yours.

In all cases, one human has seen what another human did and did the same. Humans ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS did exactly this in order to survive and prosper, all the way up until modern times.

Every wheel and arrowhead that cavemen ever made is something you'd apparently want someone to be jailed for!

I love Luke's indignation at the peasants not appreciating the "freeeedom" he's so generously offering.

I'm not offering you shit.

It's already there for you to take but you've been conditioned to attack it.

Enjoy obama and the next, worse politicians that come after him. You got what you deserve.

 

[Kiopa_Matt]

Red Hat shares triple in IPO - CNET News

Red Hat: The first billion dollar Linux company has arrived | ZDNet

RedHat is a horrible company to use as an argument. Yes, they may offer one of the world's most popular LINUX distributions free and open-source, but they have loads of commercial software products they strictly enforce IP law with.

You might as well have just used Oracle as an example. mySQL is free, and the most popular database engine out there, but at the same time Oracle has software packages that are $100k+. Not to mention if you go to the mySQL site, you're pushed the commercial / enterprise editions, not the free, open-source community edition.