Do you Spy for good ideas?

[Michael_]

Morally bankrupt? There wasn't any "official" hiring, you do realize that? He didn't sign a NDA, or contract.

Maybe I'm old-fashioned, but I believe that just because it's not a strict employer-employee setup with legal contracts, it doesn't make theft ok.

If someone were to hire me for a job and they didn't legal me to the hilt, I wouldn't be sitting there thinking, "No NDA? No non-compete? Haha, better luck next time sucker!" and try to steal as much as I could.

But, not everyone thinks the way I do, so whatever. To each their own. If you want to justify theft and you're cool with stealing, more power to you.

 

[K-Noop]

Blame the banks? What? Was Zuckerburg in a vegetative state when FB had a $100 billion valuation? That was pre-road show build up to the IPO, where the valuation went from $50B to $80B then $100B in the course of a year. What kind of reckless bullshit was that? Of course, if you knew the character of the Chief EXECUTIVE Officer of Facebook, you knew he had a distinct history of looking out for No. 1 at the expense of others - so that $50 billion valuation increase just in time for the IPO could have been construed as direct payment to the top ranks of the Forbes list for Mr. Z. It was about the greediest corporate grab we'll ever see.

Secondly, I'm personally angry about none of this. If anything, just slightly smug my views were vindicated. Again, that valuation is at least a decade long stink bomb. And his biggest fans got burnt. lol.

Oh, yeah, I forgot that the CEO of the company determines the valuation. My bad.

 

[Johnathan]

Maybe I'm old-fashioned, but I believe that just because it's not a strict employer-employee setup with legal contracts, it doesn't make theft ok.

If someone were to hire me for a job and they didn't legal me to the hilt, I wouldn't be sitting there thinking, "No NDA? No non-compete? Haha, better luck next time sucker!" and try to steal as much as I could.

But, not everyone thinks the way I do, so whatever. To each their own. If you want to justify theft and you're cool with stealing, more power to you.

There is no argument about theft. You can't steal something that doesn't exist.

 

[mituozo]

Maybe I'm old-fashioned, but I believe that just because it's not a strict employer-employee setup with legal contracts, it doesn't make theft ok.

If someone were to hire me for a job and they didn't legal me to the hilt, I wouldn't be sitting there thinking, "No NDA? No non-compete? Haha, better luck next time sucker!" and try to steal as much as I could.

But, not everyone thinks the way I do, so whatever. To each their own. If you want to justify theft and you're cool with stealing, more power to you.

People like you are people that get eaten alive in business, in that case.

If you ever hire someone, or have any kind of deal with them and it's for an important or core part of your project, get a fucking contract.

No contract, then no care when you get burned.

The money in Facebook wasn't with the idea anyway, it was with the execution and marketing strategy. FB was brought to market in a really intelligent way that made it feel like an exclusive club for college kids. I remember my teenage self anxiously waiting for Facebook to be available for my school. When it became available, there was a mass exodus from Myspace.

Whatever the Winklevoss' wanted to do, it would never have become Facebook.

 

[infoslob]

Oh, yeah, I forgot that the CEO of the company determines the valuation. My bad.

Your bad was getting involved with this thread.

Bankers work for clients they take public, they work with them - not at them. Everything is taken into consideration and a honcho like MZ is non only kept in the loop, he should be dictating the bigger picture to which the bankers / advisors work around. Zuckerburg was (and still is) the multi-billion customer and not the victim of an arbitrary measurement of a third party.

I'm available if you'd like tutoring.

 

[Michael_]

People like you are people that get eaten alive in business, in that case.

If you ever hire someone, or have any kind of deal with them and it's for an important or core part of your project, get a fucking contract.

No contract, then no care when you get burned.

The money in Facebook wasn't with the idea anyway, it was with the execution and marketing strategy. FB was brought to market in a really intelligent way that made it feel like an exclusive club for college kids. I remember my teenage self anxiously waiting for Facebook to be available for my school. When it became available, there was a mass exodus from Myspace.

Whatever the Winklevoss' wanted to do, it would never have become Facebook.

At first I was saying that I think what MZ did initially was pretty shitty and I, personally, classify it as theft.

(here's a fun read: http://www.businessinsider.com/how-facebook-was-founded-2010-3)

Then responses to this post lead the discussion away from facebook and on to IP stealing in general:

So, basically, if I hire a guy to develop an app for me and he feeds me lines of bullshit for months and then releases the exact same app under his name/company, that's a-ok? You really don't see anything wrong with that? lol L2code?

Who knew there were so many morally bankrupt people on WF.

The way you and Jonathan are wording your responses to this post...

Morally bankrupt? There wasn't any "official" hiring, you do realize that? He didn't sign a NDA, or contract. Regardless of the legal bindings he was hired as a freelancer to work on a project that he decided to build himself, saw an opportunity and seized it.

I hire people all the time but I take steps to reduce the possibility of something like this happening to me, they could have done the same.

Edit: When you don't take measures to elimate the risk of IP theft you don't know what you're doing. And yes, I say learn to code because Mark Cuban himself claims he learned to code enough to work on his own project. Oh my, what an idea.

No contract, then no care when you get burned.

You're basically saying that if I were to hire you to develop something for me and I don't plug every legal loophole, then you're completely justified in stealing what you are being hired to develop.

Thus saying, if you can get away with it, theft is completely fine. If that's how you operate, fine - I'll be sure to avoid touching anything you're associated with. But don't try and justify your bullshit by citing "business is business."

Is this how the world works? Sure, which is why anytime I plan to hire anyone to do anything, I budget lawyer expenses FIRST. Because the vast majority of the population is completely fine with stealing from each other and fucking each other over, which is sad.

 

[mituozo]

At first I was saying that I think what MZ did initially was pretty shitty and I, personally, classify it as theft.

(here's a fun read: http://www.businessinsider.com/how-facebook-was-founded-2010-3)

Then responses to this post lead the discussion away from facebook and on to IP stealing in general:



The way you and Jonathan are wording your responses to this post...






You're basically saying that if I were to hire you to develop something for me and I don't plug every legal loophole, then you're completely justified in stealing what you are being hired to develop.

Thus saying, if you can get away with it, theft is completely fine. If that's how you operate, fine - I'll be sure to avoid touching anything you're associated with. But don't try and justify your bullshit by citing "business is business."

Is this how the world works? Sure, which is why anytime I plan to hire anyone to do anything, I budget lawyer expenses FIRST. Because the vast majority of the population is completely fine with stealing from each other and fucking each other over, which is sad.

No, we're saying that taking a vague form of someone else's idea and building it yourself is not stealing.

It's entirely different if I were to take your code and use it, that is wrong and something you will get done for in court probably even without a contract.

I'm not cool with stealing, but people who are dumb enough to employ people to build core aspects of their project without contracts are idiots. If your idea is so valuable, get a contract. It's not hard. In this instance, a basic non compete would have done it.

 

[Michael_]

No, we're saying that taking a vague form of someone else's idea and building it yourself is not stealing.

It's entirely different if I were to take your code and use it, that is wrong and something you will get done for in court probably even without a contract.

I'm not cool with stealing, but people who are dumb enough to employ people to build core aspects of their project without contracts are idiots. If your idea is so valuable, get a contract. It's not hard. In this instance, a basic non compete would have done it.

Hmm...

maybe I'm just looking to pick a fight today. Re-reading my posts, I'm being an ass. I'll go away now.